F-150 Lightning Epic tow test fail

[SnowBlaZR2]

It's towing capacity is just as good, if not better than, "comparable" ICE trucks. The only limitation is range. Which anyone even considering it will understand the limitations.

What would really help with charging and range issues, is if all the EVs would just adopt a single standard plug in connection. No need to charging adapters if you can't find a brand specific charger.

From the people I know, most use their trucks to either tow RVs to campsites, or tow their race cars to the race track. Which, with where I live, most would never exceed the limited range the EV has to get to either location. Most of my fried s with RVs, tow them from storage to a local campsite. Some stay in same campsite all year long, other just hop from on local one to another. Most never go more than 50 miles. Get some charging stations at the RV parks and race tracks, and problem solved.

Most people I know tow boats and campers, and I know very few who don't tow over 100 miles several times a year.

These dismal numbers might be fine for a lot of people who don't really need a truck in the first place, but there needs to be significant improvement before electric trucks are an option for a lot of people who need trucks.

 

[Brutal_HO]

It just takes alot of fossil fuels to harness "free" energy. Also, EVs have 0 carbon footprint on paper because of the lack of tailpipe, but have 12 times the carbon penalty because of the manufacturing process. It takes many many years for the footprint to level out with ICE vehicles because of this. So in the end the carbon emissions are just "moved" to another location, even though the vehicle itself is 0 emission. Kind of a smoke and mirror thing.

EV's never really "level" out with ICE. They are worse. Hybrids do break that barrier after time.

 

[Brutal_HO]

There's a tradeoff, certainly, although it might take less time/miles than you think to "break even" on carbon footprint.

Personally, batteries are my biggest concern—both from production/manufacturing and recyclability standpoints. The advancement of battery technology is table stakes, or we'll just replace one nasty problem (fossil fuel harvesting/exhaustion, carbon contribution) with another one (heavy metal mining/exhaustion, industrial waste).

Others have commented about how EVs are charged (today) with electricity provided by plants largely running on fossil fuels. That is absolutely true, but to use this as an excuse not to go to EVs is shortsighted. With hundreds of millions of IC cars and trucks on the road, we're not transitioning to EVs overnight; it might take 30 years! It's also a pretty safe assumption that we will continue to invest in our energy grid (capacity, redundancy, and quality) and be producing power at least a little bit more cleanly decades from now. And it would be a GOOD thing to produce more energy under controlled conditions at power plants in order to remove hundreds of millions of emissions-producing IC engines from circulation—many of which are aging and not well maintained.

I'm a realist. As much as I am (very) interested in where things are headed, I'm also a fan of my V8 engines. I'll miss them when they're gone. And I'll continue to obsess about the best fluids, the best maintenance habits, etc. to preserve them as long as possible...even if I don't think they represent "the future".

I'd take that article (and even the TedxTalk I linked below) with a healthy dose of salt.

Such as? Feels like the whole point of the thread was a "yeah but" from "traditionalists". Am I wrong?

More as an LOL, but intended for spirited conversation. I'd run a hybrid if it had the range and was cost effective.

EV's never really "level" out with ICE. They are worse. Hybrids do break that barrier after time.

As to power generation, I've said this a hundred times; We're not going to get ahead of the energy needs without building Gen IV Nuke plants (large and small) - FAST.

 

[Brutal_HO]

What benefits for towing does an EV give for an equivalently priced gas or diesel truck

What metrics show that EVs are better, or can compete with regular trucks. Even a v6 Ram can tow.

A base model F150 lighting with the "pro trim" only adding Max Trailer Tow Package with the 240 mile range costs $51,369 MSRP
If you want the next level up trim XLT with the extended battery for 320 mile range and only adding the Max Trailer Tow Package again it's $84,269 MSRP

You can get a 1500 Tradesman with a 5.7 for $46,590 MSRP
1500 Bighorn with a 3.0 Diesel for $53,355
2500 Tradesman with a 6.4 HEMI is $51,760
2500 Tradesman with 6.7L Diesel is $61,355

I clearly am "missing the point" as there are so many pros and positive "metrics" about towing with an EV.
Save money, tow longer, the sky is the limit when towing with an EV!

That's part of what gets overlooked, or "forgotten" or never spoken of by EV zealots. A vehicle with extended range to equal ICE has a HIGHER CO2 lifetime footprint (look at the starting (manufacturing) CO2 cost.)

 

[theblet]

That's part of what gets overlooked, or "forgotten" or never spoken of by EV zealots. A vehicle with extended range to equal ICE has a HIGHER CO2 lifetime footprint (look at the starting (manufacturing) CO2 cost.)

View attachment 139192

Exactly. The talking heads in DC sell it as if EVs come from some magic place, and that the electricity to charge them is not fossil. They also make us supper dependent on China for the precious materials. Nuke plants would def help to offset the carbon footprint for charging.

 

[Eighty]

If only someone could invent an engine that is fueled by political anger. Then all of our problems would be solved - except for the political anger part, of course.

 

[theblet]

We should start by telling sleepy Joe to stop yelling at the American people in every speech he gives. Idk why he’s so mad.

 

[Eighty]

We should start by telling pedo Joe to stop yelling at the American people in every speech he gives. Idk why he’s so mad.

If my top allies were Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, you can bet I'd be yelling all the time too.

 

[djevox]

Can’t we all just get along?

 

[WXman]

Can’t we all just get along?

We could if Ram would keep selling what guys really want. Instead, their CEO said in an interview posted today that they are "in fast forward mode on transitioning to EV" and they are killing the non-hybrid Hemi, the EcoDiesel, and who knows what else. Showing off the EV Ram 1500 in 8 weeks and after that all focus will be on EV according to him. This, in addition to killing the Dodge Challenger altogether, and removing V8 ICE from the Charger which are the best sellers in that segment. It's ridiculous when they force feed consumers.

People who camp, boat, etc. need RANGE. Hell, guys around here who haul equipment and work with their trucks need range. My father owns his own material handling equipment repair business and he probably drives 250 miles per day. Can you imagine a Ram ProMaster BEV in that useage? Miserable.

 

[@JC]

We could if Ram would keep selling what guys really want. Instead, their CEO said in an interview posted today that they are "in fast forward mode on transitioning to EV" and they are killing the non-hybrid Hemi, the EcoDiesel, and who knows what else. Showing off the EV Ram 1500 in 8 weeks and after that all focus will be on EV according to him. This, in addition to killing the Dodge Challenger altogether, and removing V8 ICE from the Charger which are the best sellers in that segment. It's ridiculous when they force feed consumers.

People who camp, boat, etc. need RANGE. Hell, guys around here who haul equipment and work with their trucks need range. My father owns his own material handling equipment repair business and he probably drives 250 miles per day. Can you imagine a Ram ProMaster BEV in that useage? Miserable.

STLA can't do anything about it, new CAFE penalties go into effect in 24 for cars and 25 for lt trucks. They only way they've been able to keep building them lately is by buying carbon credits from Tesla. If you don't like it vote against the fascist climate alarmists.

 

[Dewey]

We could if Ram would keep selling what guys really want. Instead, their CEO said in an interview posted today that they are "in fast forward mode on transitioning to EV" and they are killing the non-hybrid Hemi, the EcoDiesel, and who knows what else. Showing off the EV Ram 1500 in 8 weeks and after that all focus will be on EV according to him. This, in addition to killing the Dodge Challenger altogether, and removing V8 ICE from the Charger which are the best sellers in that segment. It's ridiculous when they force feed consumers.

People who camp, boat, etc. need RANGE. Hell, guys around here who haul equipment and work with their trucks need range. My father owns his own material handling equipment repair business and he probably drives 250 miles per day. Can you imagine a Ram ProMaster BEV in that useage? Miserable.

Completely agree. Only way we can slow this nonsense down is to vote with our wallets. When the time comes for a new truck I’ll be looking elsewhere if they continue down this road with removing everything that makes their products appealing to a majority of the customers. If all the other companies follow suit and there are no better options then I guess I’ll be driving my current RAM into the ground and then buying another lower mile used truck later if needed. I refuse to bow down to this politically driven nonsense.

 

[theblet]

STLA can't do anything about it, new CAFE penalties go into effect in 24 for cars and 25 for lt trucks. They only way they've been able to keep building them lately is by buying carbon credits from Tesla. If you don't like it vote against the fascist climate alarmists.

And the price of vehicles will go up yet again. FCA aint gonna lose any profit. Theyll just pass it along to the consumer.

 

[HeavyRotation]

Oh yeah? Takes one to know one! It's too bad the rest of your reply is just as pointless as your childish insult.

As @Dewey correctly pointed out, we're talking about EV trucks and towing not ALL EVs. I'd be happy to discuss the broader topic on whatever EV loving forum you belong to, but no one wants that nonsense here.

With roughly 100 miles of tow range from full charge for the Lighting, there's NO way to reasonably plan around that kind of limitation. It takes 1.5 hours to fully charge the Lightning at a fast-charger. Even a trip that would normally take 4 hours would be more than double IF there was a fast-charger at every place you needed to stop. Of course their won't, so then it's a level 2 charger and 14 hours of charge time. Unless you have more money than brains, no one is going to own both an EV and ICE truck just to have one for taking trips to avoid stopping every 100 miles to recharge for 1.5 or more likely 14 hours.

Okay, now that I've spelled it all out since apparently not everyone understands what an analogy is... Imagine if only some fuel pumps could fill your vehicle in less than 5 minutes and most took hours!




That's great and all, but those fast chargers are only accessible for Rivian customers. And were talking about a grand total of 3 charging stations they've actually opened in CA and CO. Not exactly what I'd call a game changer.

TLDR: EV Trucks are a Communist plot.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

STLA can't do anything about it, new CAFE penalties go into effect in 24 for cars and 25 for lt trucks. They only way they've been able to keep building them lately is by buying carbon credits from Tesla. If you don't like it vote against the fascist climate alarmists.

Isn't this a fleet average of models offered, rather than units sold?

 

[HeavyRotation]

We should start by telling sleepy Joe to stop yelling at the American people in every speech he gives. Idk why he’s so mad.

To be fair, he also whispers alot, so it kinda balances out.

 

[theblet]

To be fair, he also whispers alot, so it kinda balances out.

then shakes an invisible persons hand and cant figure out how to get off the stage.

 

[Darksteel165]

That's part of what gets overlooked, or "forgotten" or never spoken of by EV zealots. A vehicle with extended range to equal ICE has a HIGHER CO2 lifetime footprint (look at the starting (manufacturing) CO2 cost.)

View attachment 139192

Call me evil but I don't really care about CO2. I don't think the regular person contributes as much as any amount of businesses and factories.
Make manufacturing plants go 0 emissions then go after citizens (in theory, don't do this as production costs would likely skyrocket even more then they are now or just outsource more)

I would totally get an EV if it was practical but beneficial, but it can never be unless something magical happens with battery tech making then ultra fast to charge and durable to last 20 years without needing to be replaced.

Funny thing is I can't even charge an EV if I wanted to. We have a 120 circuit and the thing is filled to the brim, I think a lot of chargers require 240. I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars to change the electric in my house. I could see a fast Tesla sedan or coupe as a fun car to kick around with getting roughly 200 miles a charge as a weekend toy.

It really seems like hybrids are the future, I don't understand why the tech for etorque was never expanded.
Start stop is not a good way to save mpg, just a way to cheese emission testing I guess?
Why can't they put a bigger battery and allow not only stop-stop but also the truck to run on the electric motor only while driving at very low rmps. I'm sure they could find a way. I regret getting etorque as it does nothing for me. I don't drive in major city traffic to allow the start-stop to same me mpg without hurting my engine by stopping every 15-20 seconds. In addition because I don't use start-stop the battery in the back is useless for me and I can only assume stays at 100% charge.
On the plus side I don't need to buy an alternator for 7 years if my generator blows.

My truck serves me, not the other way around. Don't get it twisted

 

[Eighty]

Funny thing is I can't even charge an EV if I wanted to. We have a 120 circuit and the thing is filled to the brim, I think a lot of chargers require 240.

Not to burst your anti-EV bubble, but you can wire a 240V circuit from 120V service.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Not to burst your anti-EV bubble, but you can wire a 240V circuit from 120V service.

And you don't need 220 to charge an EV. You can charge off 110, and for most people that will be sufficient.