ETorque Issue

[Electrical]

I do remember it and yes its nuts that FCA hired her after being fired by GM. Cant make this stuff up.

Boy howdy; you surely can't make this stuff up. Mark Twain said "Truth is stranger than fiction..."

I have to admit it made my blood boil for a minute after discovering that, but I don't know if it actually means anything. As only a director, Gay Kent was obviously not the decision maker, and for all I know she could have been pounding the table to fix that switch only to be over-ruled. Who knows.

If you and the rest of the guys see improvements I may very well get the eTorque anyway.

 

[MJP]

Boy howdy; you surely can't make this stuff up. Mark Twain said "Truth is stranger than fiction..."

I have to admit it made my blood boil for a minute after discovering that, but I don't know if it actually means anything. As only a director, Gay Kent was obviously not the decision maker, and for all I know she could have been pounding the table to fix that switch only to be over-ruled. Who knows.

If you and the rest of the guys see improvements I may very well get the eTorque anyway.

Dont rush into it. See how it develops. Keep an eye on the forum.

 

[FirstPU]

I've been reading this thread a lot since I'm in process of purchasing a 2019 RAM Rebel. I LOVE the idea of etorque and really want it, but hard to argue with the fact that people are even now, still dealing with waiting a long time to get their trucks fixed. I'm okay if something breaks, and they fix it...it happens.

Are there any people out there that can say...well that sucks, but I've had mine now for XX long and put 11k miles on eTorque WITHOUT issues? or should a new thread be started?

I agree with what someone said...the Forums are an incredible source of knowledge. I had a 2002 Corvette Z06 and lived in the forums whenever I had anything I needed to understand. So happy to be joining what seems to be a forum of high caliber.

Eagerly awaitng @MJP results....

 

[Horkn]

Awesome news. Your experiences are valuable to read... I hope you guys will update this thread on developments.

As a side note to the drama, do you remember the ignition switch scandal at GM a few years back? This faulty switch caused engines to turn off while driving and resulted in the deaths of over 120 people. GM sat on the issue for a decade and only took action after being sued by the family of one of the deceased.

Guess who was General Director of vehicle safety at GM at the time? Gay Kent... the same lady who is now Chief Engineer of FCA eTorque. It turns out Ms. Kent was one of a handful of executives FIRED by GM. How in THE hell could FCA think it's a good idea to hire someone with such a devastating blemish on their resume, and put them in a leadership role?

Un-****ing believable!!

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/general-motors-recall-investigation/2014/06/05/id/575323/

I do remember it and yes its nuts that FCA hired her after being fired by GM. Cant make this stuff up.

Being a Senior Corporate Buyer myself, that scares the **** out of me. The ignition switch debacle at GM is one of the multiple things that gm has done over the years that has me irate about practices that they have done over the years. GM, historically has allowed corporate bean counters to override engineering and procurement professionals regarding the lowest cost components, to boost the bottom line. That works when you are not putting people's safety at risk like unlined outboard fuel tanks in trucks and vans, then ignition switches that literally pennies less and not recommended by engineering and purchasing, but ok'd by accounting( after meeting with lawyers determining the cost of people's lives in wrongful death suits).

I love the idea of etorque. I liked the rebel I drove with etorque, but I cannot be a guinea pig for a rushed to service system, or deal with new unverified supplier's parts, or ones with questionable quality. I couldn't buy a new truck, and not be able to drive it. Not in winter at least, and even in non freezing months I could ride my motorcycle to work, but making payments on a non functioning vehicle would drive me insane.

So, I'll wait. Because I can. Hopefully by that time these issues are fixed and TCO before more consumers feel the pain.

 

[Jus Cruisin]

My advice to the worry warts on here. Stay off internet car and truck forums of any brand. You will become afraid of buying anything.

Now if you are someone that can't afford to have a vehicle tied up because of parts availability, don't buy the first year of any major change. That doesn't mean a complete new model. It can be a new generation engine, transmission, audio, etc. You need to be buying the last year of a model run. Not because they are way more reliable but because there is plenty of repair parts availability. They'll break down just as often. You'll just get it back faster because the needed part to fix it will be sitting on the the shelf.

I now have about 7,000 miles on my truck. No problems. Am I worried about it breaking down? No. Will it break down at some point? Yes. If I feel it's becoming unreliable I'll swap it out for something else. I never worry about my vehicles. It does not help. Actually, I try not to worry about anything. Worrying doesn't make things better and doesn't accomplish anything either.

 

[Kamikaze6780]

Isn't there a certain length of time if it sits at a dealership after purchase you can consider it a lemon since they can't fix it after so long?

 

[MJP]

Isn't there a certain length of time if it sits at a dealership after purchase you can consider it a lemon since they can't fix it after so long?

Lemon Laws differ from state to state. Its usually not just time based and also requires that the issue isnt resolved after sitting for the specified length of time.

 

[Electrical]

Being a Senior Corporate Buyer myself, that scares the **** out of me. The ignition switch debacle at GM...

...

I love the idea of etorque. I liked the rebel I drove with etorque, but I cannot be a guinea pig for a rushed to service system, or deal with new unverified supplier's parts, or ones with questionable quality.

...

So, I'll wait. Because I can. Hopefully by that time these issues are fixed and TCO before more consumers feel the pain.

Yeah that still boggles my mind. However, it seems a good thing Michael Manley was installed as FCA CEO. I don't know much of anything about this guy but he seemed successful in his prior role as Head of Jeep/Ram; overall I think these brands have been pretty good. Very good by some comparisons.

In my personal (speculative) opinion I can't help but think the eTorque issues are essentially all software. eTorque usage is much more involved than I initially knew. Yes it's used to create "launch" torque but apparently it's used for all sorts of other stuff like smoothing the engine between shifts. Intermingled within all of this is the function of regenerative braking, which, if I understand correctly, puts a load on the engine that allows it to draw power and charge the 48V battery.

Programming the software to do all these things is, surely, not a simple thing. If I were an engineer looking at low fuel economy in eTorque vehicles, my first thought might be to look at conditions where it creates a load... thinking possibly it's not "releasing" the engine properly. If it is indeed something like this, then a fix is coming but it's not as simple as replacing a part. Physical sensors need to be looked at, CAN bus communication, microchip firmware on possibly multiple chips, various timings and interrelationships of electrical signals, etc, etc; it takes time to properly debug complex control systems.

All of this is contingent upon Ram actually knowing a problem exists and they care enough to fix it. Seeing RamCares monitoring this forum, coupled with the importance of the Ram 1500 as a product, makes me believe both are true. But I don't know any more than you. We'll see what happens.

 

[MJP]

Yeah that still boggles my mind. However, it seems a good thing Michael Manley was installed as FCA CEO. I don't know much of anything about this guy but he seemed successful in his prior role as Head of Jeep/Ram; overall I think these brands have been pretty good. Very good by some comparisons.

In my personal (speculative) opinion I can't help but think the eTorque issues are essentially all software. eTorque usage is much more involved than I initially knew. Yes it's used to create "launch" torque but apparently it's used for all sorts of other stuff like smoothing the engine between shifts. Intermingled within all of this is the function of regenerative braking, which, if I understand correctly, puts a load on the engine that allows it to draw power and charge the 48V battery.

Programming the software to do all these things is, surely, not a simple thing. If I were an engineer looking at low fuel economy in eTorque vehicles, my first thought might be to look at conditions where it creates a load... thinking possibly it's not "releasing" the engine properly. If it is indeed something like this, then a fix is coming but it's not as simple as replacing a part. Physical sensors need to be looked at, CAN bus communication, microchip firmware on possibly multiple chips, various timings and interrelationships of electrical signals, etc, etc; it takes time to properly debug complex control systems.

All of this is contingent upon Ram actually knowing a problem exists and they care enough to fix it. Seeing RamCares monitoring this forum, coupled with the importance of the Ram 1500 as a product, makes me believe both are true. But I don't know any more than you. We'll see what happens.

I guess we have no choice but to sit tight and see what happens.

 

[TheSasquatch]

Here's the bigger question that I keep asking myself while shopping for a new Limited (or Rebel12 Pkg)..
If the eTorque system is having difficulties in ANY of the real-world tests which I've seen AND they're having these little "issues" that are causing ownership whoas, why on earth would I get one with eTorque?? I had a '14 and '16 Ram and the gas mileage was always 14-16 in town and nearly 22mpg on highway! The eTorque isn't even showing a human-eye difference in city driving or really ANY area for that matter.
So why is it even a thing? If it was meant to help 2-3mpg, was that enough to create this entirely new "mild hybrid" system and cause all these R&D problems? Surely using owners as guinea pigs with such an intricate system that exhibits such a small return is a poor idea.
I changed my searches to looking for a non-eTorque this past few weeks. Turns out, it's simple to find them because eTorques ceased production 6 weeks ago until further notice.

 

[Electrical]

Mine will be a daily driver in heavy stop-n-go traffic and my main interest is in the start-stop function and hopefully getting that extra 2 mpg city rating over the non-eTorque.

I also run accessories out of the truck and if I understand correctly eTorque can help with this by allowing the 48V battery to replenish the 12V battery when it runs low.

The thing, as I see it, is that electrification is coming whether we like it or not. If FCA did not begin "dabbling" in it now, they will be way behind the curve in the near future.

Although a bit complicated, it's still much simpler than a full hybrid, and I think it's a brilliant move to build expertise in small steps like this.

 

[Jus Cruisin]

No one is being forced to purchase eTorque. For those that don't own one or don't want one why belly ache about it? I ordered mine with the initial release price. I think it was an $800 bump. Cheap in my mind and figured, why not? It's just an option. No biggie... Now, at the current price? I'd pass on it and that's that.... I sure wouldn't be spending time theorizing the whole thing. My system might crap out tomorrow.... Oh well..... I'd get it to my dealer and let them figure out what to do and call me when it's fixed..... No drama, no loss of sleep AND no worrying....

 

[Horkn]

Lemon Laws differ from state to state. Its usually not just time based and also requires that the issue isnt resolved after sitting for the specified length of time.

In some states, like mine, it's not even an amount of time. Here, it is a matter of attempts to fix the problem. The last time I had looked, after a third attempt that didn't fix the problem then it can be lemon lawed.

Regarding etorque, it's great that they have stopped making them until they fix the problems. There are hundreds probably thousands on the lots that are still for sale though. Sure any vehicle can break, but a brand new vehicle should be reliable. You can presume that test mules had thoroughly tested the systems after thousands of miles on them before they got released to the public. Engineering and programming should have been completed long ago. However, being that I work in the Supply Chain ( yes to FCA as well as other brands), I understand what happens. That is why the PPAP process exists, so there shouldn't be differences in production parts.

Accepting that there can be problems in first year is one thing, but how the company handles it is another thing.

When the etorque was first introduced, it was said that if the system fails, then it reverts to regular non mild hybrid operation.


Hopefully they get this resolved soon.

 

[Gman]

From what I understand of the issue with current builds and a lack of the eTorque option is due to parts being unavailable, not due to any perceived "problems" with it.

 

[Horkn]

From what I understand of the issue with current builds and a lack of the eTorque option is due to parts being unavailable, not due to any perceived "problems" with it.

Sure, could be a simple lack of parts, due to high demand, or that the components are in quality containment, causing the lack of availability.

It does appear that there are many reflashes and reprorammings going on by FCA, and guys results are being seen by some, so that's good news.

 

[Smashy71]

F etorque

 

[Kamikaze6780]

I passed on the etorque for a couple of reasons, one main reason is that it's new tech that hasn't had the time for stress testing or even testing to workout bugs and said hiccups. I just wanted the tried and true hemi. All they have to do is keep on refining it.

Another thing is that lithium battery, if that gets punctured in an accident, that's basically a bomb. I believe lithium batteries can explode when punctured or something

 

[Horkn]

Another thing is that lithium battery, if that gets punctured in an accident, that's basically a bomb. I believe lithium batteries can explode when punctured or something

20-30 gallons of gas in a 6000 lb package rolling at 70 mph is kind of dangerous all on its own.

I would think that engineering would have a lot of safety features built in on the 48 v battery.

 

[Kamikaze6780]

20-30 gallons of gas in a 6000 lb package rolling at 70 mph is kind of dangerous all on its own.

I would think that engineering would have a lot of safety features built in on the 48 v battery.

That's true, but I work with many kinds of engineers, you would be surprised on stuff that goes through after being tested. Besides that, it's probably not a big deal, but I am quite sure they could have done a bit more stress testing on quite a few more of these before pushing them out.

 

[Electrical]

From what I understand of the issue with current builds and a lack of the eTorque option is due to parts being unavailable, not due to any perceived "problems" with it.

Hi Gman. Is this solid information or just the grapevine? I mean where did you hear this?