CAUGHT: 2021 Ram 1500 Rebel TRX Testing On The Streets:

[redriderbob]

I don't think the TRX has to have a "2500 frame" nor have i read anything to indicate that it will. This could just as easily (and much more likely) be a 5th gen ram 1500 frame slightly modified to fit a 2500 8 lug axle, than a 2500 frame modified to fit 1500 front axle, bumper, cab, and bed... not to mention this wheelbase (crew cab 5-7" bed) is not available in the 2500. The 5th gen 1500 frame should be close to if not already is strong enough. Or they could just increase the section modulus of some of the rear frame sections where needed (like F150 does)

But differences between 1500 and 2500 frames probably aren't huge in some places anyway. At least they werent for 3rd gens. 2500 was just 1" or so taller in the rear than a 1500. Made it pretty easy to mount a gooseneck hitch from a 2500 and put it in a 1500.

Regarding the front axle it could well have larger components over a standard 1500. We dont know yet. Just because it has 6 lugs in front doesnt mean it cant have larger half shafts, more splines, or beefier carrier assembly. I'd put money on 4.10 being the only option but who knows just guesses at this point. I'd also bet money that it wont have cheap plastic components that will break like the raptor...

I see your point on the fender flares vs new front and rear fenders. As stated this is a test mule. Production TRX may well still get new fenders (as well as hood, front bumper, or grille) but testing without them makes it so they don't have to cover the entire truck with all the black crap. The RamRunner kit had fiberglass fenders. Ramrunners also destroyed the Raptor of the day, and that was still just a standard Ram 1500 frame with a suspension kit. That said it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they didn't go with all new fenders as the widebody challenger and upcoming charger just have fender flares. I'm not complaining because we get 700-800 HP for under 100K. Oh and it wont be a turbo V6

TRX will be based on the 1500, not the 2500. The problem is trying to put all 707 horsepower down to the ground. Remember the Rebel TRX Concept was only 575 horsepower.

 

[Rustydodge]

TRX will be based on the 1500, not the 2500. The problem is trying to put all 707 horsepower down to the ground. Remember the Rebel TRX Concept was only 575 horsepower.

Exactly. That's the first i'd heard of someone saying the TRX was going to be 2500 based, or that the frame was from a 2500. I know there were the 2 4th gen modified 2500s pictured in a lot that was in the allpar thread - maybe that or the 8 lugs drove that assumption.

FCA will have all the bases nicely covered. All at the top of their respective segments

2500 = Powerwagon
1500 = upcoming TRX (with Rebel as a current, nice alternative)
Midsize = Gladiator Rubicon

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Ramrunners also destroyed the Raptor of the day

Was there a way to disable traction control?
These guys weren’t able to find a way:

 

[Rustydodge]

I'm not sure on that. I know the RamRunner seemed to handle larger bumps better, but i'm sure the older trans and computer programming where not great

 

[bravo1]

I

I can assure you my sources are saying this is the TRX

If that's the case quite sad indeed, very sad that this will be RAM's attempt to compete against Ford Raptor program I will bet you a quarter that Jim Steel at Ford HQ's is shooting hand guns in the air on top of his desk and Ford Jr is riding around the room on a broom stick saying "We just saved a boat load of money on developing a big block motor to replace the 3.5L TT motor and transmission and God know's what all else...To defend against Ram Rebel TRX concept.That truck would have taken at least 10-15 percent of Ford's Raptor sales.

 

[devildodge]

I could be wrong, but I an pretty sure what he means is that it isnt the other things you said it was. He was implying that it is an FCA test mule not an AEV, etc.

That is not the final product. Not even close. It is a disguise. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[devildodge]

Maybe there is another Fast and Furious movie coming and Vin Diesel will accidentally leak a pic of the TRX...like they did the Demon...lol

 

[JustAnotherGuy]

I hope the rumors are true about it being a 2020 model. They’re leaving money on the table by not getting it to market. I’d say conservatively that 1/4 of all raptor owners will jump ship. They hate the fords **** Rubbermaid interior and rice rocket sounding V6. But there were no other options.

If FCA prices this at $90k loaded they’re going to **** themselves. It will be like the trackhawk. They’ll sell in the beginning, then sit on the lot and sell for $12-15k off. 19 raptors are still going at MSRP or only a couple thousand off. FCA needs to release this fully loaded at a smidgen under $80k. They will sell the hell out of them at sticker. Especially considering people who shouldn’t be buying these (don’t make enough money) can put them on 84 month loans.

Fingers crossed!

 

[Jared B]

We received new photos and a video of the TRX prototype today.

 

[bravo1]

So I do realize this is a prototype, but also I am thinking now the reason for the fender flares is to get some idea of fuel mileage with the fender push out with the fender flares ?...Also Jared mentioned in his video the Dana Pro 60 Max trailer tow, machined for a 8 lug configuration.Was it the differential cover Jared, but one thing Jared is that I did not see the thermal cooling ports for the differential cover's..You too caught the cutout's in the fender wheel wheels insert's....Next up in the video it points to the rear trailing arms being beef up.I have look at a 2019 Ram 2500 today and they are stamped piece's these in the video look different.I move to the front axle assembly were currently ZF supplies the front axle.Speaking of ZF one must presume that ZF will be the vendor for the TRX or Chrysler will be using a Tremec 6 speed manual paddle shift or center console pistol grip or a ZF/Chrysler 8 speed automatic.Interesting the gear selection Jared mention a 3:92 from the MaxTow package. A 3:70 is what is offered in the 2019 RedEye.That ratio couple with 707hp with just push that truck pretty quick across the desert one must presume that rear axle and front axle will be able to handle such duties.I thinking also that this truck will only be offered in a 6.4 bed to accommodate a larger 32 gallon tank if this get close to the 22 combine the Redeye gets.I would like to touch on the current 2019 Ram frame assembly this vendor is MetalSA out of Mich.If you look at a frame you will see the front and rear are sleeved on making me think sleeving might be the way they will go.Moving to the front of the truck now we see that no additional cooling looks to be required meaning that the heat exchangers from the Redeye or Hellcat were fitted into the front of this truck.And no additional cooling inlet are need at this phase of testing.I hope to catch this truck pre-running Ocotillo Wells this summer.Like the sound of this truck sound's mean...Also correct me if I am wrong but Ram stopped production for 2 weeks early this year to ready the assembly lines for new stampings and new options that were coming meaning the VM3.0L EcoDiesel and maybe just maybe new stampings for the front and rear fender flares ?

 

[Rustydodge]

Due to having 35s i think it should get 4.10s as that equivalent setup with 33s would be about 3.86 (not far off from 3.92). 3.92 with 35s would be equivalent to 33 with 3.70 so that's interesting and maybe what they will go with. The redeye with 3.70 only has 29" tires - different situation.

I'm sure it will be the ZF 8HP95. Bigger question is what will the transfer case be and front differential (limited slip or locking vs open).

The 33 gallon tank should still fit on a 5'7" bed unless larger suspension components get in the way. Raptor crew is 36 and extended cab with longer bed is the smaller 26 so i hope and expect the 33 is standard.

Cooling is an interesting point. They are testing without the production hood which i expect will feed more air to get more power unless they can feed enough for 700+ through the grille and within the fender only. Or they can test without additional cooling needs because they are testing without max power?

It does sound very, very good!

 

[Rustydodge]

I hope the rumors are true about it being a 2020 model. They’re leaving money on the table by not getting it to market. I’d say conservatively that 1/4 of all raptor owners will jump ship. They hate the fords **** Rubbermaid interior and rice rocket sounding V6. But there were no other options.

If FCA prices this at $90k loaded they’re going to **** themselves. It will be like the trackhawk. They’ll sell in the beginning, then sit on the lot and sell for $12-15k off. 19 raptors are still going at MSRP or only a couple thousand off. FCA needs to release this fully loaded at a smidgen under $80k. They will sell the hell out of them at sticker. Especially considering people who shouldn’t be buying these (don’t make enough money) can put them on 84 month loans.

Fingers crossed!

I was always told raptors sell above MSRP. No way i'd expect loaded under 80k. Doesn't a loaded trackhawk creep into the triple digits? But i guess SUV world premium Jeep can be compared against very expensive cadillacs, porsche, etc while TRX will only have Raptor and they are a league of there own. Price will be interesting for sure

 

[bravo1]

Also if we go by Jared assumption that the rear axle is a Dana 60 series axle then we point to Dana website for a look at the Dana Ultimate 60 8 lug.Not sure about the length of the axle tubing to get the wide stance required for the new stampings fender's...Also I notice after looking at a spy shot of the rear axle how very small the rear sway bar is.Rusty Dodge concur on cooling it seems that the active grille shutters maybe in play here on this prototype.For no heat exchangers located on the hood both in the forward position nor on the rear of the hood back on the 2016 Rebel TRX prototype.

 

[JustAnotherGuy]

I was always told raptors sell above MSRP. No way i'd expect loaded under 80k. Doesn't a loaded trackhawk creep into the triple digits? But i guess SUV world premium Jeep can be compared against very expensive cadillacs, porsche, etc while TRX will only have Raptor and they are a league of there own. Price will be interesting for sure

The dealer websites list Raptors above MSRP, but if you walk in the door they are all offering 2019 Raptors (with the new suspension) at MSRP. My friends MSRP was in the 76s with nearly every option. Fully loaded is $77k. Anyone paying over sticker on a Raptor now is terrible at negotiating. They've been out for a while now. Without too much effort, 2018s can be had $4k off. My friend got $2k off on his 19 and above KBB on his trade. This was at Planet Ford near Houston. I started negotiating with a dealer in town after the debacle trying to order a Ram limited. At first they wouldn't budge, then after a couple of days they tentatively accepted my request for $3k off on a fully loaded Raptor. Those are hard numbers and facts on the Raptor market right now, at least in the Houston region.

I used to have an SRT Jeep and my current truck. I bought the refreshed 2014 when it dropped, threw on a Meisterschaft exhaust, some custom forged wheels and a few other goodies. I loved it but after some problems with the dealer and a transmission reflash I parted it and sold it. I was holding out for the trackhawk but thought they were over priced. Now it's easy to find them with $10k off sticker, and you can even find them for 12-15k off if you negotiate They're around $100k fully loaded. Not having the massive additional car payment has been great, and even with the reduced prices on trackhawks I can't stomach paying that much again. Especially not for an old body style.

I'm all over the place with trucks. I ordered the 19 ram limited, then the dealer couldn't get the options I wanted, and still hasn't gotten back with me. Then I started looking at the Raptor after my buddy got one. But it sounds so weak and looks so bad inside I'm having trouble overlooking it. Even the new B&O stereo, while better than the Sony, sounds like garbage compared to the HK in the Ram. If there's a chance this will come out early 2020 or end of 2019 I'm definitely waiting.

 

[bravo1]

Interesting when I do a search on Cars's.Com and price out a used 2018 F-150 Raptor,I am seeing 59,000 that is quite a hit from MSRP.Meaning are Raptors holding resale, and are Ford dealer's not giving trade-in values so that they have a wide range of pricing protection.This could be due to the length they say on the lot after dealer ordering.2017 are in the 49,000 range with just 24,000 miles on them, all have V-6 TT

 

[JustAnotherGuy]

Interesting when I do a search on Cars's.Com and price out a used 2018 F-150 Raptor,I am seeing 59,000 that is quite a hit from MSRP.Meaning are Raptors holding resale, and are Ford dealer's not giving trade-in values so that they have a wide range of pricing protection.This could be due to the length they say on the lot after dealer ordering.2017 are in the 49,000 range with just 24,000 miles on them, all have V-6 TT

They have very high resale value. You have to remember there is a huge range in options. Raptors start in the mid 50s I think. I’m just curious to see how much the TRX Ram affects that.

It’s also worth mentioning that there are rumors Ford is going to stop production on it. Not sure if they’re doing a Rolex trick and intentionally limiting supply to keep the hype up..

 

[VoiceOfReason]

They have very high resale value. You have to remember there is a huge range in options. Raptors start in the mid 50s I think. I’m just curious to see how much the TRX Ram affects that.

It’s also worth mentioning that there are rumors Ford is going to stop production on it. Not sure if they’re doing a Rolex trick and intentionally limiting supply to keep the hype up..

I can’t imagine Ford would just throw their hands in the air and quit. Brand loyalty has been the most difficult obstacle to overcome in the truck industry for competitors to gain market share. I doubt they will discontinue such a cash cow. They will lose some sales to Ram but I’m confident they will retain enough sales to continue profitability on the product. Remember, it is the “Raptor effect” that even FCA cited for driving up average transaction prices for Ford trucks. They’re not going to abandon that benefit just because they lost king of the hill bragging rights.

 

[redriderbob]

I

If that's the case quite sad indeed, very sad that this will be RAM's attempt to compete against Ford Raptor program I will bet you a quarter that Jim Steel at Ford HQ's is shooting hand guns in the air on top of his desk and Ford Jr is riding around the room on a broom stick saying "We just saved a boat load of money on developing a big block motor to replace the 3.5L TT motor and transmission and God know's what all else...To defend against Ram Rebel TRX concept.That truck would have taken at least 10-15 percent of Ford's Raptor sales.

The keyword is PROTOTYPE... that truck is far from the finished product... if you are fans of the TRX Concept, the upcoming TRX will suit you just fine!

 

[bravo1]

Yea Redriderbob got this was a prototype.And I am a huge fan of the Rebel TRX...After viewing Jareds video I notice some more engineering testing,1) A small thermo probe was inserted into the rear axle drain plug with what appears to be a resistor of some sort followed by a single gauge wire running up and over the rear axle housing. Could be checking rear axle temp's when the truck is running at full throttle,2) Pen Marker marking's locating current setting's for the rear axle pan-yard left side looking straight forward at spy pic.. 3) The control arm's in front of the rear axle looks be some sort of a concentric camshaft design to align the rear axle up. They look to be moved to a second position based on a pen marker stripe mark.4) I see the sport's hood heat extractor vents up on the hood but wonder if they are functional.But no heat extractor for the center of the hood on the back side near the windshield, like the previous 4th generation Ram Rebel TRX..5)TFL Truck thought that the lower control arms look way different than the current 5th gen lower control.Kore off-road supplied the previous lower control arms..The pic at TFL shows the huge drop rate and way much wider control arm...1/2 shaft design for sure,wonder if ZF will still supply the front axle on this variant of Ram trucks....They also pointed to a skid plate of some sort running from the front bumper and tied directly to the front cross member.Notice also that the lower front bumper were the tow hooks are located they do not stick out at all from the front lower portion of the bumper.....I also notice that the outer sidewall of the BFG is lined-up with the outside edge of the fender flare which makes me think that the fender body panels are gonna be pushed out quite a bit. Also the rake of the truck looks to be about 2-3 taller in the back, indicating some sort of tow squat requirement, many remember the Ford Raptor lack any real tow rating until recently.When viewing the video at the stop light waiting to turn the kinda jump a little to me indicating he was in neutral and then push into drive.I notice also was Jared stating he now feels that the Rebel TRX will be a 8 lug front spindle assembly and a 8 lug rear axle now.

 

[JustAnotherGuy]

Reliable sources are saying Ford is putting the GT500 engine in the raptor in 2 years. Articles came out today. Clearly Ford knows people want the V8, and I’d venture to say in the Ford Gt as well, but since they have a captive audience as there are no true domestic competitors to either car, they’ve gotten away with this EcoBoost push. Ram giving the people what they really want is forcing Fords hand.

If Cadillac does what they’re reporting, and puts a TTV8 in the new Escalade, and massively overhauls the interior, all of the new navigators growth and fan fare will evaporate. Then ford might be forced to react and throw a V8 into the navigator. I travel a lot and rent all sorts of well equipped vehicles. The EcoBoost rides are the least pleasing to drive of anything I’ve ever encountered.