Base 6 speaker upgrade options?

[Alter Ego Trip]

The problem with mixing different speakers of different ohm ratings is there is no way to level match. This will really skew an already terrible soundstage. A 4ohm speaker will draw roughly half the wattage of a 2 ohm speaker. That's significant. Now if the speaker going in is considerably more sensitive, you can make some of this back, but it's really a crap shoot. I guess you need to determine what's important to you.

 

[rick619]

The problem with mixing different speakers of different ohm ratings is there is no way to level match. This will really skew an already terrible soundstage. A 4ohm speaker will draw roughly half the wattage of a 2 ohm speaker. That's significant. Now if the speaker going in is considerably more sensitive, you can make some of this back, but it's really a crap shoot. I guess you need to determine what's important to you.

I was wondering if that would be an issue. All the other speakers are Infinity 3ohm. Per the verbage on the Crutchfield site: 'these 3-ohm speakers work in combination with the speaker wire in your car so your car stereo sees a true 4-ohm impedance.'

So I don't know if it ends up being the same as 4ohm? The system sounds good right now and noticeably better with the Focal speakers. I did figure if it caused any issues, I'd eventually get a set of Focal 6.5" components: Put the 6.5" in the doors and put the tweeters in the dash. Then move the 6X9 to the rear. So still a possibility. Though one factor might be my poor hearing. Not sure if I'd be able to tell a difference.

Also thought of returning the Infinity 3.5" in the dash and getting either the Hertz or JL 3.5" which are both 4ohm. Though like mentioned above, Crutchfield says they won't fit in the dash. The stereo shop that did the amp and sub was going to use the Hertz and said they'd fit. Those are the same price as the Infinity, JL is $50 more. Doesn't look like Focal makes a 3.5" coax.

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

I think you meant, the speaker wire would result in a 2 ohm load? Ohms don't raise with resistance. That's kind of a B.S. sales pitch regardless. That being said; speakers ohm loads do vary based on frequency being played. A/M speakers are most likely more sensitive than OEM, so it probably works out relatively close.

Crutchfields recommendations are all based around 100% factory fit. They won't recommend something they haven't tried, or anything that is not 100% drop in. I stuffed Gladen PP80's into my factory dash locations. It required some modification to the factory grille, but nothing you'd ever be able to tell from the outside. Looks 100% OEM.

 

[rick619]

I think you meant, the speaker wire would result in a 2 ohm load? Ohms don't raise with resistance. That's kind of a B.S. sales pitch regardless. That being said; speakers ohm loads do vary based on frequency being played. A/M speakers are most likely more sensitive than OEM, so it probably works out relatively close.

Crutchfields recommendations are all based around 100% factory fit. They won't recommend something they haven't tried, or anything that is not 100% drop in. I stuffed Gladen PP80's into my factory dash locations. It required some modification to the factory grille, but nothing you'd ever be able to tell from the outside. Looks 100% OEM.

It's as I stated on the Crutchfield page under 'Excellent power handling'

Infinity Reference REF307F

Reference Series 3-1/2" 2-way car speakers

www.crutchfield.com

I might consider doing Focal components later and putting the tweeter in there. Though might sound better leaving a 3.5" coax in there.

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

It's as I stated on the Crutchfield page under 'Excellent power handling'

Infinity Reference REF307F

Reference Series 3-1/2" 2-way car speakers

www.crutchfield.com

I might consider doing Focal components later and putting the tweeter in there. Though might sound better leaving a 3.5" coax in there.

Theoretically that is correct; in practical application, not so much.

As mentioned, at the end of the day, ohm loads vary so it's really a crap shoot when mixing and matching with OEM speakers.

 

[rick619]

Theoretically that is correct; in practical application, not so much.

As mentioned, at the end of the day, ohm loads vary so it's really a crap shoot when mixing and matching with OEM speakers.

I don't have any OEM speakers left. So it's 2X Infinity 6X9 and 2 Infinity 3.5" that are 3ohm. Plus the Focal 6X9 (front) that are 4ohm. So it sounds good now, not sure if changing anything/everything else to 4ohm would make it sound better or not really make much of a difference. Plus tempted to upgrade the 3.5" anyway if it will improve the sound. Figure the rear Infinity 6X9 won't make much of a difference because it's mostly just for fill. Though there does seem to be an improvement in the mid bass with the Focal that was lacking with the Infinity, just not sure that would make a difference enough to replace the rear.

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

At this point you might as well take the plunge and just add in a DSP.

 

[rick619]

At this point you might as well take the plunge and just add in a DSP.

Yup, on the list

 

[Jedi9]

Very highly recommend the DSP. After I changed my speakers they had good "sound" but definitely something missing in the music, along with the playing level sounding like it fades after a few minutes. Went with the little kicker amp with the auto DSP KEY technology and got blown away at what this little box does. I got everything I was looking for and only have the gain up 25% or so. If you are just changing speakers on the base system you are leaving quite a bit on the table and not getting the sound you paid for.

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

Very highly recommend the DSP. After I changed my speakers they had good "sound" but definitely something missing in the music, along with the playing level sounding like it fades after a few minutes. Went with the little kicker amp with the auto DSP KEY technology and got blown away at what this little box does. I got everything I was looking for and only have the gain up 25% or so. If you are just changing speakers on the base system you are leaving quite a bit on the table and not getting the sound you paid for.

Tuning will make a bigger difference than just about anything else you'll do audiowise. Auto tunes are better than nothing (you at least get TA which is really beneficial, and some basic EQ adjustment), but a professional tune will make worlds of difference in the overall sound. Being able to manipulate all pass filters and address phase issues between drivers is huge. Good speakers in a bad install will sound worse than bad speakers in a good install.

 

[Jedi9]

I'm considering the same now with the Wrangler, although it sounds good, the Ram may now sound better

 

[rick619]

I'm considering the same now with the Wrangler, although it sounds good, the Ram may now sound better

What year Wrangler do you have? I have an 06 Unlimited (LJ) and an 04 Sahara. I used to have a 2012 JKU. I've upgraded the speakers to 5.25" JL and trying to figure out if I want to do a sub. Since I have a custom cage, the rear speaker pods are currently zip tied to the floor until I get some other things figured out. Probably going with 6.5" Alpine roll bar mounted pods.

The money pit:

 

[Jedi9]

Nice, love the LJ. I have a 2014 with the Alpine system so it had a factory sub in the rear you couldn't hear. Changed it out to a Pioneer but still couldn't hear it. I put in an ION series i350 sub

 

[rick619]

Nice, love the LJ. I have a 2014 with the Alpine system so it had a factory sub in the rear you couldn't hear. Changed it out to a Pioneer but still couldn't hear it. I put in an ION series i350 sub

Jeeps have pretty awful acoustics. Especially if you have a soft top. I don't have a back seat in mine, so might try to do a small 10" behind the passenger seat on the floor. There's also a Kicker 6.75" that will fit in the OEM center console location. That would be easier, but probably not much bass.

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

6.75 would be a huge waste of time IMO. That's not a sub, it's a midbass lol.

 

[rick619]

6.75 would be a huge waste of time IMO. That's not a sub, it's a midbass lol.

Yeah, not really a sub at that size. Though there are two versions of it: A no-name OEM replacement version, sold by Quadratec (Jeep accessories), and the Kicker version. I have two Jeep TJ's and the previous owner put the Quadratec version in that one. It's in the center console facing the driver. I'll say it's actually noticeable, and better than nothing. I would expect the Kicker version would sound better. Some have put the Kicker in there and connected an amp.

This is the Kicker people use:

https://www.amazon.com/KICKER-CompRT-165mm-Subwoofer-Compliant/dp/B08NFJRMHP/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Though I'd say that the minimum size I would consider to be a sub would be an 8".

 

[1791]

At this point you might as well take the plunge and just add in a DSP.

i am keeping the truck till it falls apart and it's going to be my last "system" so i took the plunge for sure. after 28+ years doing mobile audio i kinda have high standards. i tried doing it cheaper but after much trial and error i was not happy. i had the 8.4 non amplified system and it was HORRIBLE one of the biggest hurdles on the install is not being able to just throw in a aftermarket head unit and the factory speakers suk
i ended up with a Rockford DSR1 (dsp) with a T harness and anc bypass. look it got kinda pricy. I'm at $3300 but it sounds incredible. it's kind of overkill for about 99% of truck owners, definitely could be done cheaper. but if you are paying to have it put in and tuned it will still cost $$$$
the money i saved on labor that allowed me to spend more on equipment.
i did my own install i can only imagine what labor would cost...i think about 5k total cost for what i did?
dsr1 = 350
cdt audio ES-02's =120
audiocontrol lc-4.800 = 600
audiocontrol lc1.1500 = 699
RF P3 10'S = 400
jbl stadium 6.5 = 220
fox acoustics fox box = 375
jl C2690tx = 280 but soo much better than infinity's
rca's and associated install items 250ish
my friend spent 5k including labor on his 2021 limited HARMON system replacement using all jl audio and it also sounds totally awesome.
he has jl XD 1000/5, C2960tx, hertz mile pro 6.5 2 jl 10w3's in a sealed box and the pac amp pro ap4

​

 

[sizmtrz]

yeah option 2 comes with the adaptors for the tweeters to go in the place of the factory mids in the dash corners. front center is not really needed IMO with the dsr1 dsp you get time alignment for staging. i went all out with that setup it gets louder than most want to get. crew cab has alot of enclosure options if you have quad cab fox acoustics is really the only wat to go. i have a quad cab it's pretty loud and clear with alot of bass. i like it the infinity's got great reviews on amazon from ram owners i guy with the alpine system complained i guarantee it's because he kept the factory alpine amp. my door 6.5's are 2 + 7/8 i believe the 3 inch would not be a problem.
i don't want to step on toes but my friend at work has a 2023 that had that alpine or the harmon with the headliner speakers we thought it was not up to our par so. he dropped his truck off at a good shop in my area paid 5k for a all jl setup. custom box for 2 jl 10's rear doors front components and a 900 dollar jl 5 channel amp kept the 8.5 screen. sounds pretty good at 5k i hope so. he thinks mine sounds better i got about 1600 in mine but i did my own install if i had the money i would have just paid to have it done with my equipment. i would not add headliner speakers. he abandoned the center and headliner speakers.
i look like a D4S fan boy lol i have been a fosgate guy for over 25 years. quality and price D4S is hard to beat
i got this amp for 250 and it's unblameable. very powerful. as in i can't believe it's a 5 channel that is doing it all. look at the measurements and break out a tape measure. the pick makes it look huge but it's not really that big.
Down4Sound JP95 RED | 1500W RMS - 5 Channel Amplifier

yeah option 2 comes with the adaptors for the tweeters to go in the place of the factory mids in the dash corners. front center is not really needed IMO with the dsr1 dsp you get time alignment for staging. i went all out with that setup it gets louder than most want to get. crew cab has alot of enclosure options if you have quad cab fox acoustics is really the only wat to go. i have a quad cab it's pretty loud and clear with alot of bass. i like it the infinity's got great reviews on amazon from ram owners i guy with the alpine system complained i guarantee it's because he kept the factory alpine amp. my door 6.5's are 2 + 7/8 i believe the 3 inch would not be a problem.
i don't want to step on toes but my friend at work has a 2023 that had that alpine or the harmon with the headliner speakers we thought it was not up to our par so. he dropped his truck off at a good shop in my area paid 5k for a all jl setup. custom box for 2 jl 10's rear doors front components and a 900 dollar jl 5 channel amp kept the 8.5 screen. sounds pretty good at 5k i hope so. he thinks mine sounds better i got about 1600 in mine but i did my own install if i had the money i would have just paid to have it done with my equipment. i would not add headliner speakers. he abandoned the center and headliner speakers.
i look like a D4S fan boy lol i have been a fosgate guy for over 25 years. quality and price D4S is hard to beat
i got this amp for 250 and it's unblameable. very powerful. as in i can't believe it's a 5 channel that is doing it all. look at the measurements and break out a tape measure. the pick makes it look huge but it's not really that big.
Down4Sound JP95 RED | 1500W RMS - 5 Channel Amplifier

What the heck fox box is that!? The site only reflects 3 boxes that all accommodate the ram bins…. Thanks

 

[Bansheeman6100]

So, been awhile but update on my progress. Life got busy. Here's what I've got so far:

D4S JP95T
CT meso 6.5 3-way components
CT meso 6.5 basic for rear doors
CT Hydro 12"
Skar single 12" box
Speaker pods for a-pillar the front 3.5s
Customspeakerpods 1/0 OFC foundation kit

Then I've got odds and ends like 14g OFC for the doors, speaker baffles, ferrules, etc

I'm going to build an amp rack and mount it behind the back seat, drivers side where the Etorque battery would be. And will be running fresh 14g to all new speakers, and 10g to the sub. I've been doing a good bit of reading and watching, but this is by far the most ambitious audio project ive ever done. So, any and all basic tips and tricks are welcome. Ive got a few questions, like Best place to run the power through the firewall?
Where did you mount your crossovers? Up front in the door, or back on the amp rack and run the additional speaker wire?

Someone earlier had suggested that I skip the crossovers and do a dsp/amp combo for the speakers, could someone maybe elaborate further?

And if anyone has links saved for good audio threads, please post them up

 

[moease]

@Bansheeman6100
Check out Car Audio Fabrication. Guy has a lot of knowledge. Here's a link to his DSP video's.

https://www.youtube.com/@CarAudioFabrication/search?query=dsp​