Anyone getting a 2025 with the I6 Hurricane?

[RVTRKN]

The end result was a drop from 21 to 17MPG by the time I had to fill up again.

Sorry azzx, I just can't help myself, did you read that BowDown?

 

[HSKR R/T]

Sorry azzx, I just can't help myself, did you read that BowDown?

That was with his old Hemi

 

[HSKR R/T]

It is a first year motor in a 1500 application, which will be subjected to a much heavier duty cycle. Most 1/2 ton owners tend to overload their trucks, an example would be buying a light trailer rated at or slightly over GCWR. I've seen many 1/2 ton owners of all brands haul 30' trailers, and I'm sure 1 or two RV manufactures Maybe have a 30'er light enough for a 1/2 ton truck. So no its not already been tested, but next year, and later years, we'll all see how it is doing. I believe what FCA says about the capability of the engine, so MPG and HP/TQ as advertised is all there, its going to be the cost of maintenance and repair thats going to be the biggest issue.

You kept bringing up duty cycle like it's going to be a make it or break it item. Here you say "most" half ton owners overload their trucks and the RAM will have a heavier duty cycle. The Wagoneer weighs more than the RAM, so unloaded, the Wagoneer has a higher duty cycle. And "most" 1/2 ton truck owners use their trucks as daily driver, grocery getter, family haulers. I'd say it's actually a small percentage of owners that actually tow, let alone tow heavy, with a 1/2 ton truck.

 

[JExpedition07]

True but the curve to peak tq is sharper in the 5.0 meaning it doesn't have significant torque under peak torque or for very long.

High compression (NA) will never overcome boost, never.
Also, that 12:1 is static compression which means nothing, show me the dynamic compression and even then, it's only worth 10-12 hp without e85, a tune, cam and a lot more timing

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Agree to disagree, it’s a pretty broad torque curve actually. Here is an overlay of the current 4th gen Ford 5.0L V8 and final iteration of the Ram 5.7L Hemi. Compression is worth more than 10-15 HP, a one point bump is 3-5% (a lot of extra power on a larger engine), and with direct injection you can run aggressive ignition timing without detonation risk. The 5.0 has gained 40 HP and 30 lb ft of torque at the same rpm since its launch with the raise from 10.5:1 to 12:1 compression. GM’s 6.2L V8 went from 413 lb ft to 460 lb ft at the same rpm going from a 10.0:1 to 11.5:1, that’s not minor.

Calculating dynamic compression on the 5.0 isn’t an easy task, the Ti-VCT system varies the intake and exhaust camshaft timing independently with 50 degrees of swing for each. The fuel mixing tables show that direct injectors take over as soon as 600 rpm under heavy load, and as high as 3,000 rpm in light load. The dynamic compression and cylinder loading changes depending on what you are doing with the truck. I’d say dynamic compression is pretty high at upper rpm where the direct injectors are handling 90% of fuel delivery, and port is only handling 10%. Mixing tables attached.

 

[BowDown]

Sorry azzx, I just can't help myself, did you read that BowDown?

The question is did you?

 

[BowDown]

It is a first year motor in a 1500 application, which will be subjected to a much heavier duty cycle. Most 1/2 ton owners tend to overload their trucks, an example would be buying a light trailer rated at or slightly over GCWR. I've seen many 1/2 ton owners of all brands haul 30' trailers, and I'm sure 1 or two RV manufactures Maybe have a 30'er light enough for a 1/2 ton truck. So no its not already been tested, but next year, and later years, we'll all see how it is doing. I believe what FCA says about the capability of the engine, so MPG and HP/TQ as advertised is all there, its going to be the cost of maintenance and repair thats going to be the biggest issue.

FWIW, comparing real mpg, per @azzx is awesome, assuming his prior Ram with the Hemi had the same gear ratio's and tire diameter. @BowDown, I'm not going back through all the posts, but I'm sure its a small percentage stating the MPG will be worse.

@azzx, thanks for your real time comparisons, its needed for all to see real time info. I bought a 1st year engine, (07 C&C rated 6.7 CTD) and got a lot of info from a early buyer of the same truck, on TDR that really helped in the Nay sayers as well as issues. 1st issue he had was a supposed blown head gasket that was replaced twice, that took Dodge a few attempts to figure out, it turned out to be the EGR was leaking coolant in the combustion chamber, which in turn I went through the scheduled maintenance of the EGR cleaning 20K miles before it was required. New designs, means learning curves for the techs. Which will add to the costs of the new engine, I certainly wouldn't want to do DIY after warranty

Based on the number of empty ot lightly loaded 1500s I pass on the road, I'd say you're incorrect about that.
Now, of the owners that heavily load their trucks, you may be correct but the vast majority of 1500s aren't heavily loaded.

I had a 20' tree get blown in the storms Tuesday morning. I chopped the tree up and took it to the dump. That's about how I see the vast majority of 1500s loaded, my neighbor has a 24 limited that's loaded with a broken refrigerator right now.



Anyone consistently overloading a 1500 bought the wrong truck and that's not the fault of the engine or the engineers that designed the powertrain

 

[BowDown]

View attachment 184042 Agree to disagree, it’s a pretty broad torque curve actually. Here is an overlay of the current 4th gen Ford 5.0L V8 and final iteration of the Ram 5.7L Hemi. Compression is worth more than 10-15 HP, a one point bump is 3-5% (a lot of extra power on a larger engine), and with direct injection you can run aggressive ignition timing without detonation risk. The 5.0 has gained 40 HP and 30 lb ft of torque at the same rpm since its launch with the raise from 10.5:1 to 12:1 compression. GM’s 6.2L V8 went from 413 lb ft to 460 lb ft at the same rpm going from a 10.0:1 to 11.5:1, that’s not minor.

Calculating dynamic compression on the 5.0 isn’t an easy task, the Ti-VCT system varies the intake and exhaust camshaft timing independently with 50 degrees of swing for each. The fuel mixing tables show that direct injectors take over as soon as 600 rpm under heavy load, and as high as 3,000 rpm in light load. The dynamic compression and cylinder loading changes depending on what you are doing with the truck. I’d say dynamic compression is pretty high at upper rpm where the direct injectors are handling 90% of fuel delivery, and port is only handling 10%. Mixing tables attached.
View attachment 184043

That's a 50ft lb tq deficit down low in the 5.0, you don't think that's significant? The 5.0 doesn't catch up till 3000 rpm, most truck that tow or are loaded down, since that's what many keep bringing up, need as much to as possible off idle and before 2500 rpm.

Theres some that have posted their f150 5.0 experience here and validated my point. "5.0 f150 has no power unless the rooms are high, the 5.7 felt better down low".

 

[RVTRKN]

BowDown, our savior. I'm from SoCal originally and you'd have too see all the 1500's making their way South to Glamis Dunes, with there toy haulers crushing their rear suspensions.

I'm sorry your tree fell, we just lost a lot of trees to an 85mph (per NWA) wind that damaged homes and some lost power for 24hrs, we lost power and water for 8hrs.

 

[WXman]

So TFL compares highway fuel economy of the '25 Ram with the I-6TT against the new Ford and GM with the largest V8s available, and the Ram puts up the worst numbers of the 3. The interesting thing is that people were actually surprised by this.

How many years of tiny turbo engines drinking fuel like a bad habit does it take before people realize how this works?

 

[Ramroo]

From my experience ,it’s the suspensions that limit all these 1/2 ton trucks from hauling and towing heavy. They are not made to do it, made for the luxury ride. I have modified mine, and do ask too much sometimes, but mainly a daily driver.

If you hook it up, they will pull it. Some better than others. Hemi will certainly do it, Hurricane will be better loaded or not. But again, the soft truck is your limitation.

If you have to worry about duty cycle of a primary tow vehicle, you are probably in the wrong truck anyway.
Will the Hurricane last as long as the Hemi pulling or daily driving? probably not. That is my only concern. I would still buy a new Hurricane over the Etorque hemi.

 

[HSKR R/T]

So TFL compares highway fuel economy of the '25 Ram with the I-6TT against the new Ford and GM with the largest V8s available, and the Ram puts up the worst numbers of the 3. The interesting thing is that people were actually surprised by this.

How many years of tiny turbo engines drinking fuel like a bad habit does it take before people realize how this works?

Nobody should be surprised because Dodge/RAM has never been at the top of the list for fuel economy. Doesn't matter what engine you use. Even the official press release shows minor differences between the Hurricanes and Hemi's. And the Hemi was always worse than Chevy or Fords V8s for fuel economy.

How many years of ****ty RAM fuel economy, no matter what engine, does it take for people to stop trying to compare RAM against Ford/Chevy and act surprised RAM doesn't win?

 

[RVTRKN]

That was with his old Hemi

Correct, if I read it wrong I'll apologize ahead of time, but his Hemi was equipped as the Hurricane and he lost 4mpg with the Hurricane, IF, I read it right

You kept bringing up duty cycle like it's going to be a make it or break it item. Here you say "most" half ton owners overload their trucks and the RAM will have a heavier duty cycle. The Wagoneer weighs more than the RAM, so unloaded, the Wagoneer has a higher duty cycle. And "most" 1/2 ton truck owners use their trucks as daily driver, grocery getter, family haulers. I'd say it's actually a small percentage of owners that actually tow, let alone tow heavy, with a 1/2 ton truck.

See post #1796

 

[BowDown]

BowDown, our savior. I'm from SoCal originally and you'd have too see all the 1500's making their way South to Glamis Dunes, with there toy haulers crushing their rear suspensions.

I'm sorry your tree fell, we just lost a lot of trees to an 85mph (per NWA) wind that damaged homes and some lost power for 24hrs, we lost power and water for 8hrs.

Seriously, that's your representation of how 1500's are used?
Lots of trees down here after the tuesday 70-80mph straight line winds, the dump/tree clippings drop off station was full of 1/2 and 3/4 tons loaded with broken trees

 

[HSKR R/T]

Correct, if I read it wrong I'll apologize ahead of time, but his Hemi was equipped as the Hurricane and he lost 4mpg with the Hurricane, IF, I read it right

You did not read it right. He early stated he got 2mpg better with his hurricane. And will update once he runs out the current tank. The drop in fuel economy he mentioned was getting 21mpg coming "down the hill" from his cabin, and then dropped to 17mpg running around town before he had to fill up his tank. That was with his Hemi

See post #1796

Your anecdotal observation of a fraction of a percentage of total 1/2 ton owners hauling to Glamis does not pertain to your argument that "most" owners tow.

 

[RVTRKN]

I forgot about my 1500 I purchased used with 29K miles, the previous owner installed spring assists airbags, and the miles towing recorded was @ 14K miles. That indicates the electric brake was connected, assuming a heavier tongue weight and heavy trailer. I didn't see the towing miles til after the purchase, and the airbags 30 days after.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I forgot about my 1500 I purchased used with 29K miles, the previous owner installed spring assists airbags, and the miles towing recorded was @ 14K miles. That indicates the electric brake was connected, assuming a heavier tongue weight and heavy trailer. I didn't see the towing miles til after the purchase, and the airbags 30 days after.

Any trailer that exceeds 3000lbs requires trailer brakes. So they could have been towing a small car trailer and total weight not over 5000lbs and still have trailer brakes. That's not heavy towing even for a 1/2 ton

 

[RVTRKN]

You did not read it right. He early stated he got 2mpg better with his hurricane. And will update once he runs out the current tank. The drop in fuel economy he mentioned was getting 21mpg coming "down the hill" from his cabin, and then dropped to 17mpg running around town before he had to fill up his tank. That was with his Hemi

Your anecdotal observation of a fraction of a percentage of total 1/2 ton owners hauling to Glamis does not pertain to your argument that "most" owners tow.

OK, that sounds right.

Its not BS, I know what my eyes see, I don't need any data or research to tell me otherwise. It is also prevalent that the 3/4 tons do the same and some 1 tons, I know because my buddy tows a fully loaded 34' toy hauler with air bags to help with the rear suspension with his 2014 Ram 4X4 2500 CTD. Hell he even did it with his 2001 Dodge Ram 4X4 2500.

 

[RVTRKN]

and the air bags?

 

[HSKR R/T]

OK, that sounds right.

Its not BS, I know what my eyes see, I don't need any data or research to tell me otherwise. It is also prevalent that the 3/4 tons do the same and some 1 tons, I know because my buddy tows a fully loaded 34' toy hauler with air bags to help with the rear suspension with his 2014 Ram 4X4 2500 CTD. Hell he even did it with his 2001 Dodge Ram 4X4 2500.

And just because you see a few trucks hauling toys to Glamis does not make that "most" 1/2 ton owners. I've seen Tesla model S' hauling trailers, that doesn't mean "most" do it

 

[HSKR R/T]

and the air bags?

Tell me you don't understand towing trailers without telling me you don't understand towing trailers. You obviously dont use your truck to tow. And rely on what you seez and what your "buddies" do. Leave the towing talk to those that actually know WTF they are taking about