firecadet613
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Why do you think the '24 didn't and the '23 did?! '23 was eTorque only as well...
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Anyone getting a 2025 with the I6 Hurricane?
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AleksanderSuave
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Im new to the brand as well (and this forum), shopping the 2025's now even though I started with intent on getting a Hemi engine a few months ago.
However, having owned quite a few turbo charged vehicles in my lifetime, I would say that reliability in a modern engine design (and transmission by extension) is odd to argue about. If the bulk of people were worried about modern engineering, as much as they complain about it online, then nobody would buy anything produced after the 70s.
I owned a tuned B58 as well (that was unfortunately totaled in 2022), that pushed 500 HP, running an ethanol blend with upgraded fuel pump, in line ethanol sensor, plus a few other goodies, and had no issues as a daily driver. Outside of oil changes, (it was a steal to get 3 years of them for $225), I saw 3 total unplanned dealership visits. One was a gear shifter that they voluntarily recalled to upgrade to the latest gen, another was the 2g emergency phone system upgrade, and the third was a dinan piggyback tuner issue entirely unrelated to the original vehicle. The turbocharged B58 happens to be BMW's likely most reliable engine ever produced, if it continues down the road to prove out as reliable as it has been so far.
Ive owned Audis, Subarus, multiple BMWs, 2 Chevy Trucks, an older Porsche Cayman, a few hondas, and one janky old pontiac.
Overall the engines were mostly equally reliable, minus VWAG products (hot garbage).
Ive got no added concern about buying anything turbo charged. I went and test drove a 2025 Ram a week ago and was thoroughly impressed with the power delivery and responsiveness at partial throttle and WOT.
Sound is subjective. Interior cabin has active noise cancelling so you're not really hearing acceleration at true volume anyway. Its not going to sound like a v8..but at least its not using the speakers for fake engine sounds either.
Compared to the other turbocharged trucks Ive owned or driven (GM's 2.7 "Turbomax", Ford 2.7 ecoboost), this is definitely fastest. There's also a few known issues with the Hemi as well that wouldnt necessarily make it a guaranteed reliable buy by any stretch of the word. The advantage there is that the older Hemi design will likely equate to lower repair costs, since its a well-known design by now.
New grill looks good. I drove the night edition big horn. Nearby was a Laramie with leather seats, front end on the night edition is definitely better looking (with less chrome) but interior on the laramie was nicer...It had the sport appearance package as well.
Regarding pricing, yeah, its all over the place, but for 2025 the Ram Rebel looks to have a LOT standard for the price, that the prior year did not include. I am leaning towards that trim having compared it to the more expensive choices after big horn..
Darksteel165
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OK I'll bite. Explain why 2022 was such a bad year from 2020-22. Hemi without etorque was standard.
Also provide your source for the picture you linked. Anyone can make a random picture and say it's x y or z.
I'll wait.
Biga
Ram Guru
2022 was the worst year of the parts shortages following covid.
I mean, I can explain why 2023 was down significantly. Prices were up significantly, option packages changes significantly removing features, incentives were almost non-existent, and most people were already locked into a lower price lease, or loan, they picked up when incentives were high, interest rates were low, and prices were lower. Made no financial sense to get into a new truck with less options, at a higher price.
Darksteel165
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2023 is clear I would think. I was asking about 2022.
That is incorrect. Any charts you look for show a large recovery by 2022. 2022 was never the worst year, 2020 was and sales were up then.
There are clear macroeconomic factors at play, which were mentioned (interest rates & softening consumer confidence are examples). It's natural for businesses to pull levers that are in their control to try and adjust. Levers include new products, shifting product mix to meet projected demand (in this case, less expensive trims), layoffs so that workforce size is aligned with current and predicted demand and managing raw material costs through contract negotiations and design changes. While they do this, they need to keep their long term business strategy in mind. In Stellantis' case, it's in part a shift to EV, which is a gamble... like all strategic business decisions.
www.bloomberg.com
All that said, I hope they hurry up and start making the Tungstens
Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit’s Profit Engine
Sales of pricey pickup trucks at Stellantis NV, Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Co. faltered in the first quarter, a sign that high borrowing costs are eroding Americans’ appetite for the Detroit automakers’ main profit driver.
www.bloomberg.com
All that said, I hope they hurry up and start making the Tungstens
Darksteel165
Legendary member
Less expensive trims? Have you seen the price for a tradesman? Could get a Laramie for those prices a year or 2 ago.There are clear macroeconomic factors at play, which were mentioned (interest rates & softening consumer confidence are examples). It's natural for businesses to pull levers that are in their control to try and adjust. Levers include new products, shifting product mix to meet projected demand (in this case, less expensive trims), layoffs so that workforce size is aligned with current and predicted demand and managing raw material costs through contract negotiations and design changes. While they do this, they need to keep their long term business strategy in mind. In Stellantis' case, it's in part a shift to EV, which is a gamble... like all strategic business decisions.
Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit’s Profit Engine
Sales of pricey pickup trucks at Stellantis NV, Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Co. faltered in the first quarter, a sign that high borrowing costs are eroding Americans’ appetite for the Detroit automakers’ main profit driver.
All that said, I hope they hurry up and start making the Tungstens
Tungsten is a brand new higher level trim, if anything they are doing way more expensive level trims and fooling people like you thinking the are cheaper.
This reminds me of the whole "invoice is the new msrp" because msrp is a joke for the Ram brand and inflated like hell so some stealerships can make even more profit.
They are selling you less slop and charging more at every cornor even back in 2023 Limiteds no longer got bed liner standard or wood grain wheel even as an option but the price increased.
I was talking about the levers businesses pull. Clearly the big horn is a less expensive trim than the limited.
Maybe I should have clarified "...less expensive trims relative to other trims they offer..." for people like you who didn't fully understand my post?
It's hard to tell based on forum posts, but you appear to be irritated. Since you didn't ask, I recommend going for a walk - nature is beautiful!
AleksanderSuave
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Its been substantiated by multipe sources that 2022 was the worst year for the parts/inventory shortage's impact on sales.
Auto Industry Expected to Post Worst U.S. Sales Year in More Than Decade | American International Automobile Dealers
thats probably the most "official" statement you'll get on it, without buying industry data to show sales.
U.S. light vehicle sales 1976-2023 | Statista visual aid if thats easier.
firecadet613
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I call BS on that.. no way they sold 245,000 less Rams in '23 than '22...
Are this calendar year numbers, or model year?
firecadet613
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Regardless, did Ram cut production in half? I did not see a glut of unsold Rams in 2022 or 2023...
I think he might have been trying to illustrate sales by model year. This site tells a much better story.
Here's the link where I saw it:
carfigures.com
I'm not a Ram basher. They are my fav at the moment.
I'm just trying to comprehend why sales are 'reported' to be down vs others. IMO, IN MY OPINION, not factual, probably because I have two of them, people I know that were ready to by a truck and a RAM said to me, 'I'm not buying the e-torque thing, nit doing it". Approx. half waiting to see what this I6 does, half went elsewhere.
I'm sure there are many other factors as well, just what I've experienced from truck buyers I know.
I've also opined that I think Ram will lose a decent percentage amount, how much I have no idea, because the Hemi is gone, I'm guessing from Hemi lovers, of which I am not one, but I like it a lot (again compared to others I've owned).
2024 Ram Ram Pickup Sales Figures
Ram Ram Pickup monthly, quarterly, and yearly sales and statistics in the United States. Including data and interactive charts for the latest model year 2024 and large pickup trucks segment.
I'm just trying to comprehend why sales are 'reported' to be down vs others. IMO, IN MY OPINION, not factual, probably because I have two of them, people I know that were ready to by a truck and a RAM said to me, 'I'm not buying the e-torque thing, nit doing it". Approx. half waiting to see what this I6 does, half went elsewhere.
I'm sure there are many other factors as well, just what I've experienced from truck buyers I know.
I've also opined that I think Ram will lose a decent percentage amount, how much I have no idea, because the Hemi is gone, I'm guessing from Hemi lovers, of which I am not one, but I like it a lot (again compared to others I've owned).
Here's my take on it based on my own experiences. I've been happy with Ram trucks sinve 2016, when I switched from GM. I saw that I could get higher trim level trucks with more features for less money than what Ford and Chevy were offering. I saw value in that. Since about 2022 that price difference has been disappearing. Now it's non-existent. In fact, I've built Chevy trucks out with more features that had a lower MSRP. Ram has lost any price advantage they may have once had in my eyes.
Darksteel165
Legendary member
Read your own source next time dude.Here's the link where I saw it:
I'm not a Ram basher. They are my fav at the moment.2024 Ram Ram Pickup Sales Figures
Ram Ram Pickup monthly, quarterly, and yearly sales and statistics in the United States. Including data and interactive charts for the latest model year 2024 and large pickup trucks segment.
I'm just trying to comprehend why sales are 'reported' to be down vs others. IMO, IN MY OPINION, not factual, probably because I have two of them, people I know that were ready to by a truck and a RAM said to me, 'I'm not buying the e-torque thing, nit doing it". Approx. half waiting to see what this I6 does, half went elsewhere.
I'm sure there are many other factors as well, just what I've experienced from truck buyers I know.
I've also opined that I think Ram will lose a decent percentage amount, how much I have no idea, because the Hemi is gone, I'm guessing from Hemi lovers, of which I am not one, but I like it a lot (again compared to others I've owned).
The picture you posed was only Q1 and Q2, so only half the damn year....
Fair enough, didn't see that. I was looking for yearly numbers and saw the chart below that.
But even so, 23 and 24 down roughly 100K +/- from 19, 20, 21 (assuming 100K +/- for Q3/4 played out)
Thanks
silver billet
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Exactly. Ram has had decreasing sales for two main reasons: a "stale" product (oldest on the shelf at this point not including the really new update of course), and greedy pricing.
They got greedy. They're too expensive now.
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