Air conditioning performance

[YoAdrian]

Here are the results of my driveway test - we're just about in for a downpour, so it is pretty cloudy out.

Ambient temp 93 degrees. (truck outdoor temp says 95)

7:00 - Started Truck, tried to hold rpm at 1000 but oddly the best I could do was bouncing between 800-1200
7:01 - Outlet temp 73 degrees
7:02 - Outlet temp 70 degrees
7:03 - Outlet temp 68 degrees
7:04 - Outlet temp 68 degrees

Truck was starting to get "comfortable" at this point sitting in the driveway after 4 mins running with minimal sun load. (7pm, storm clouds)

Decided to go for a drive around the neighborhood, 15-25 mph. Coldest temperature reached was at the stack at 7:07 was 61 degrees.

Great data, my thermometer is on the way in anticipation of this check. Yours should have been 55 degrees right? I wonder if there’s a way we customers can check the blend door operation, since that’s the direction @I Love Grits troubleshooting procedure sends us...

 

[Aries Ram]

No one should have to go thru all this with a brand new 40k to 60k truck. Now you got to diagnose your problem with it. With the money we are spending if anything is not up to Standard the dealer or FCA should make it right. I'm seriously almost scared to swap over to Ram now and I truly hate it because I have been looking forward to owning this truck for about 5 months now. The case of being a convert is very disappointing now. I pray that I dont have these issues if I really take ownership of it now. *Seriously Debating Now* FCA put the cart before the horse here, then what really irks me is a lot of the dealership are acting like most the problems are normal. The dealership are only concerned with the next sale.

 

[Craftman]

Just picked up my new 2019 Rebel and drove 31 miles, half in stop and go freeway traffic, outside temp 90 degrees. And happy to report the AC was freezing. With all the talk on the forum about subpar AC was worried but the AC worked as good if not better than my Tacoma.

Level 2 Equipment Group - 5.7–Liter V8 HEMI MDS VVT eTorque Engine - coil springs - no sunroof.

 

[TimG]

Just picked up my new 2019 Rebel and drove 31 miles, half in stop and go freeway traffic, outside temp 90 degrees. And happy to report the AC was freezing. With all the talk on the forum about subpar AC was worried but the AC worked as good if not better than my Tacoma.

Level 2 Equipment Group - 5.7–Liter V8 HEMI MDS VVT eTorque Engine - coil springs - no sunroof.

View attachment 1617

Man!!! They painted my truck the wrong color and gave it to you!!!! Congratulations on the Rebel!

 

[borant]

Here are the results of my driveway test - we're just about in for a downpour, so it is very cloudy out. And it's 7 pm.

Ambient temp 93 degrees. (truck outdoor temp says 95)

7:00 - Started Truck, tried to hold rpm at 1000 but oddly the best I could do was bouncing between 800-1200
7:01 - Outlet temp 73 degrees
7:02 - Outlet temp 70 degrees
7:03 - Outlet temp 68 degrees
7:04 - Outlet temp 68 degrees

Air was just starting to get "comfortable" at this point sitting in the driveway after 4 mins running with minimal sun load.

Decided to go for a drive around the neighborhood, 15-25 mph. Coldest temperature reached was at the stack at 7:07 was 61 degrees.

I'm struggling with the heat index "apparent temp" calculation. If I go by what is currently posted online, it is a current "feels like" of 95 degrees, but if I try to do my own I am getting a number more like 105 degrees.

@Ilovegrits I don't suppose you have the same sort of chart for the previous gen Ram?

For comparisons sake, I just took the wife's Honda Pilot through approximately the same test..it got down to 63 degrees when sitting in the driveway running for 5 mins, and then got to 54 degrees after the trip around the neighborhood. That 5-7 degrees is a huge difference! I was a little worried about the 1234yf refrigerant in the Ram, but actually it looks like it is the same in the Pilot.

is it max A/C or normal mode?

 

[I Love Grits]

I'm struggling with the heat index "apparent temp" calculation. If I go by what is currently posted online, it is a current "feels like" of 95 degrees, but if I try to do my own I am getting a number more like 105 degrees.

@Ilovegrits I don't suppose you have the same sort of chart for the previous gen Ram?

For comparisons sake, I just took the wife's Honda Pilot through approximately the same test..it got down to 63 degrees when sitting in the driveway running for 5 mins, and then got to 54 degrees after the trip around the neighborhood. That 5-7 degrees is a huge difference! I was a little worried about the 1234yf refrigerant in the Ram, but actually it looks like it is the same in the Pilot.

Unless you have a reason that the humidity where you're monitoring temperature would be different than what a nearby weather station is reporting (inside a climate controlled shop for example) I wouldn't worry too much and would just run with the "feels like" temperature.

If you have a reason for differing RH, or you want to confirm the published heat index, you can get the relative humidity from NOAA's website (or use a personal humidity meter/psychrometer) and using a temperature probe to get ambient temperature, plug both into this calculator here:

https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/html/heatindex.shtml​

If you're more of a chart kinda person, you can find the table here:

https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png​

I do not have the 4th Gen chart. I meant to download all the AC info for that generation while I had a valid TechAuthority subscription, but ran out of time. Maybe @96Dodge4x4 could get the 4th gen AC Diagnois and Testing info from the service manual for us. If he can't, I've got some other stuff to look at on TechAuthority and will download it this week.

There seems to be some misinformation floating around about the 1234yf refrigerant. FCA has been using it in a number of vehicles since late 2014 - including the 1500. A 2018 1500 has 1234yf in it just like a 2019 does and a change in AC performance is not due to a "new" refrigerant.

You'd think that a 5th gen would share a lot of the same heating & AC components as the 4th gen since the engine is a carryover and they already figured out the R1234yf. What's interesting though is that the AC compressor part #'s are different between the two generations.

AC Compressor PN for 5.7L Hemi

2017: 68140664AE​

2019: 68340016AA​

Maybe its common to change part numbers for a newer year and they are in fact identical parts? Maybe they redesigned the system (compressor/condenser/fan/TEV/evaporator - tweak one of those and the systems aren't going to perform identical) and that's the explanation? Maybe the HVAC module code is screwing up and is actuating blend doors without input?

Riddle me that batman.

Great data, my thermometer is on the way in anticipation of this check. Yours should have been 55 degrees right? I wonder if there’s a way we customers can check the blend door operation, since that’s the direction @I Love Grits troubleshooting procedure sends us...

There's a whole section within the service manual dedicated to "DTC-Based Diagnostics" meaning checking for codes in one of the many (quick count shows 38) onboard modules. Obviously that's not something the average customer will be able to access so we can't check blend door operation through the CAN data bus.

But we can do a visual inspection of the actuators/doors right? Well...we can. But it requires pulling the whole instrument panel to check the passenger side...and the instrument panel PLUS the HVAC housing to check the driver's side. If you don't have dual zone climate control, the blend door is internal to the HVAC housing so you're kinda SOL there (pic below).





The only thing easily checked without disassembling the entire front dash is the recirculation door actuator. That can be accessed by removing the glove box.

 

[RAM 4times]

Just picked up my new 2019 Rebel and drove 31 miles, half in stop and go freeway traffic, outside temp 90 degrees. And happy to report the AC was freezing. With all the talk on the forum about subpar AC was worried but the AC worked as good if not better than my Tacoma.

Level 2 Equipment Group - 5.7–Liter V8 HEMI MDS VVT eTorque Engine - coil springs - no sunroof.

View attachment 1617

congrats on your new truck. it looks great!

 

[Jared B]

This is greatly disappointing. I hope they're working on a fix, or have developed a fix for recently produced trucks and will fix previously produced/sold trucks.

 

[firecadet613]

Unless you have a reason that the humidity where you're monitoring temperature would be different than what a nearby weather station is reporting (inside a climate controlled shop for example) I wouldn't worry too much and would just run with the "feels like" temperature.

If you have a reason for differing RH, or you want to confirm the published heat index, you can get the relative humidity from NOAA's website (or use a personal humidity meter/psychrometer) and using a temperature probe to get ambient temperature, plug both into this calculator here:

https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/html/heatindex.shtml​

If you're more of a chart kinda person, you can find the table here:

https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png​

I do not have the 4th Gen chart. I meant to download all the AC info for that generation while I had a valid TechAuthority subscription, but ran out of time. Maybe @96Dodge4x4 could get the 4th gen AC Diagnois and Testing info from the service manual for us. If he can't, I've got some other stuff to look at on TechAuthority and will download it this week.

There seems to be some misinformation floating around about the 1234yf refrigerant. FCA has been using it in a number of vehicles since late 2014 - including the 1500. A 2018 1500 has 1234yf in it just like a 2019 does and a change in AC performance is not due to a "new" refrigerant.

You'd think that a 5th gen would share a lot of the same heating & AC components as the 4th gen since the engine is a carryover and they already figured out the R1234yf. What's interesting though is that the AC compressor part #'s are different between the two generations.

AC Compressor PN for 5.7L Hemi

2017: 68140664AE​

2019: 68340016AA​

Maybe its common to change part numbers for a newer year and they are in fact identical parts? Maybe they redesigned the system (compressor/condenser/fan/TEV/evaporator - tweak one of those and the systems aren't going to perform identical) and that's the explanation? Maybe the HVAC module code is screwing up and is actuating blend doors without input?

Riddle me that batman.





There's a whole section within the service manual dedicated to "DTC-Based Diagnostics" meaning checking for codes in one of the many (quick count shows 38) onboard modules. Obviously that's not something the average customer will be able to access so we can't check blend door operation through the CAN data bus.

But we can do a visual inspection of the actuators/doors right? Well...we can. But it requires pulling the whole instrument panel to check the passenger side...and the instrument panel PLUS the HVAC housing to check the driver's side. If you don't have dual zone climate control, the blend door is internal to the HVAC housing so you're kinda SOL there (pic below).


View attachment 1635


The only thing easily checked without disassembling the entire front dash is the recirculation door actuator. That can be accessed by removing the glove box.

That's intense. I'll let those who truly have the poor performing AC get it resolved and ensure a fix is out there before I take mine in...since its tolerable.

I have no interest in letting the dealer tear apart the dash of my new $55,000+ truck to troubleshoot! Seems like a receipe for disaster IMO.

Thanks to @I Love Grits for sharing the knowledge.

 

[202snowman]

This is greatly disappointing. I hope they're working on a fix, or have developed a fix for recently produced trucks and will fix previously produced/sold trucks.

Any chance you could backdoor the information back into Ram with your contacts? I know that sometimes production/ design is isolated from hearing the real world complaints until it reaches a certain level of pain.

 

[Jared B]

Any chance you could backdoor the information back into Ram with your contacts? I know that sometimes production/ design is isolated from hearing the real world complaints until it reaches a certain level of pain.

I know for a fact that FCA monitors this forum as well as Ramcares obviously. I'm thinking about putting an email together with what seem to be common issues and sending it out to some contacts, that said I'm not sure how that would be received.

 

[202snowman]

I know for a fact that FCA monitors this forum as well as Ramcares obviously. I'm thinking about putting an email together with what seem to be common issues and sending it out to some contacts, that said I'm not sure how that would be received.

You're exactly right...two ways it can be perceived

1) A bunch of whining people and a slim subset of the entire production

2) Free data and early indicators to help document and fix issues before they become major warranty headaches ( or lead to loss of customers in the case where people are refusing to accept delivery in the case of the A.C.)

I'd like to think you'd at least get one or two people that subscribe to number 2.

 

[Jared B]

You're exactly right...two ways it can be perceived

1) A bunch of whining people and a slim subset of the entire production

2) Free data and early indicators to help document and fix issues before they become major warranty headaches ( or lead to loss of customers in the case where people are refusing to accept delivery in the case of the A.C.)

I'd like to this you'd at least gone one or two people that subscribe to number 2.

I'd say there are too many people with the same issue for it to be #1, I hope that this issue gets resolved. I'll send an email out Monday morning.

 

[warvet]

Just picked up my new 2019 Rebel and drove 31 miles, half in stop and go freeway traffic, outside temp 90 degrees. And happy to report the AC was freezing. With all the talk on the forum about subpar AC was worried but the AC worked as good if not better than my Tacoma.

Level 2 Equipment Group - 5.7–Liter V8 HEMI MDS VVT eTorque Engine - coil springs - no sunroof.

View attachment 1617

beautiful truck. I'm so glad you didn't let this ac thing stop you from getting the truck you want. I don't doubt that some people are having issues, but forums are tricky (extremely small sample size). There are some widespread problems on the Harley Forum that would scare the heck out of anyone from buying a new model.....just horrible issues. Yet, the 5 dealership within one hour of me have yet to see anyone with the issue and I've met thousands who are extremely happy.......including me.

I'll admit my AC isn't "freezing" and not as cold as my last GMC, but I'm super hot natured......and I'm not riding around sweating in my truck. Enjoy that truck man.

 

[sticker500]

I'd say there are too many people with the same issue for it to be #1, I hope that this issue gets resolved. I'll send an email out Monday morning.

I think this is a great idea. I understand RAM may be having issues on first model year, and that's ok as long as they aren't swept under the rug and fixed in 2020 leaving us 2019 owners with the poor designs. I just don't feel today with prices on par across the big 3 that we should have huge differences in A/C performance. My 2018 F-150 really cooled down quick.

If RAM sends me a survey on initial quality they are going to get low marks from me on many areas. I never understood why Ford was #1 but now that I have experience in RAM, I see why. That isn't to say I never had a Ford with issues AND RAM does some things better, but some of this trucks flaws with poor communication between dealer and FCA is not going to go over well in overall ownership satisfaction ratings.

 

[96Dodge4x4]

I’ll check later today and see what they have for A/C testing under the service info

Unless you have a reason that the humidity where you're monitoring temperature would be different than what a nearby weather station is reporting (inside a climate controlled shop for example) I wouldn't worry too much and would just run with the "feels like" temperature.

If you have a reason for differing RH, or you want to confirm the published heat index, you can get the relative humidity from NOAA's website (or use a personal humidity meter/psychrometer) and using a temperature probe to get ambient temperature, plug both into this calculator here:

https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/html/heatindex.shtml​

If you're more of a chart kinda person, you can find the table here:

https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png​

I do not have the 4th Gen chart. I meant to download all the AC info for that generation while I had a valid TechAuthority subscription, but ran out of time. Maybe @96Dodge4x4 could get the 4th gen AC Diagnois and Testing info from the service manual for us. If he can't, I've got some other stuff to look at on TechAuthority and will download it this week.

There seems to be some misinformation floating around about the 1234yf refrigerant. FCA has been using it in a number of vehicles since late 2014 - including the 1500. A 2018 1500 has 1234yf in it just like a 2019 does and a change in AC performance is not due to a "new" refrigerant.

You'd think that a 5th gen would share a lot of the same heating & AC components as the 4th gen since the engine is a carryover and they already figured out the R1234yf. What's interesting though is that the AC compressor part #'s are different between the two generations.

AC Compressor PN for 5.7L Hemi

2017: 68140664AE​

2019: 68340016AA​

Maybe its common to change part numbers for a newer year and they are in fact identical parts? Maybe they redesigned the system (compressor/condenser/fan/TEV/evaporator - tweak one of those and the systems aren't going to perform identical) and that's the explanation? Maybe the HVAC module code is screwing up and is actuating blend doors without input?

Riddle me that batman.





There's a whole section within the service manual dedicated to "DTC-Based Diagnostics" meaning checking for codes in one of the many (quick count shows 38) onboard modules. Obviously that's not something the average customer will be able to access so we can't check blend door operation through the CAN data bus.

But we can do a visual inspection of the actuators/doors right? Well...we can. But it requires pulling the whole instrument panel to check the passenger side...and the instrument panel PLUS the HVAC housing to check the driver's side. If you don't have dual zone climate control, the blend door is internal to the HVAC housing so you're kinda SOL there (pic below).


View attachment 1635


The only thing easily checked without disassembling the entire front dash is the recirculation door actuator. That can be accessed by removing the glove box.

 

[96Dodge4x4]

I’ll check later today and see what they have for A/C testing under the service info

Here is the 4th gen A/C Testing service info

 

[Aries Ram]

beautiful truck. I'm so glad you didn't let this ac thing stop you from getting the truck you want. I don't doubt that some people are having issues, but forums are tricky (extremely small sample size). There are some widespread problems on the Harley Forum that would scare the heck out of anyone from buying a new model.....just horrible issues. Yet, the 5 dealership within one hour of me have yet to see anyone with the issue and I've met thousands who are extremely happy.......including me.

I'll admit my AC isn't "freezing" and not as cold as my last GMC, but I'm super hot natured......and I'm not riding around sweating in my truck. Enjoy that truck man.

The A/C could get better with time also I have noticed that in my CMV. I had some work done to my A/C and for about a day thought the shop had got over on me then I noticed the more I ran it the cooler it got.

 

[RBRK]

The pano sunroof makes it super hot inside and it is hard to cool down. I have one and never had one previously. I figured out they were hot while checking out the trucks mid day while waiting for my truck to come in, I jumped in on and felt the heat from the roof. Anyway, I started off tiniting the ft windows with ceramic only 50 percent and it helped some, then after a few more weeks I ended up doing the sunroof the same. It made a huge difference. I hated the heat and was thinking I don’t know how I can live with this truck and it’s only a month old. I’m good with it now.

Things I found out about the A/C in this truck vs the previous is that on Auto it won’t turn on the recirculation mode on its own, it will be warm when it’s really hot outside. The previous gens wouldn’t turn the light on, but if you pushed the recirc button say when it was on 65 or whatever temp it set at you wouldn’t notice a difference in sound etc. on the 19 you can set the temp on auto and whatever temp you want and then push recirc and it changes to recirc. This helps a lot with the vent temp. The old truck did this for you trying to maintain your set temp. Then the blower speed would change depending on what is needed to maintain set temp. What people are hearing with the blower speed is the blower going super high speed, it goes faster on auto then on manual settings or Max A/C. The thing moves a lot of air on auto when it’s very hot outside.

The faster the blower speed the higher the vent temp will be due to more air being blown over the evaporator it dissipates the cold air quicker so it is warmer. Think of it as a fan blowing over an ice cube If you put it on max when it’s screaming on auto you will notice it slows down the blower or if you have it on auto and push the high blower speed it slows down too, but it won’t be on recirc either way unless you select Recirc. You need to have recirc on to get the best performance. Occasionally I switch it off for a bit to get some fresh air in. At idle your temps will rise some due to compressor speed most testing is done at 1500 rpm so when at idle of say 700 rpm it will not be as cold. All cars pretty much are this way coldest temp is always going to be above idle.

Bottom line is the pano Roof is hot and the A/ C actually works fine as designed, but the heat from the top is so great when it’s say above 85 that it’s going to not feel cool inside for a long time.
You need to crack a window or slider when first getting in to vent the hot air out. If you use auto push recirc too, although I think Max A/C is the best for the coldest air. Once cooled down the system works. The new refrigerant R1234YF sucks in my opinion vs R134 but you can’t change that. I work on Honda cars and we have the same complaints as here on our new cars mainly the minivans and pilots with big cabs. They come in 4-5 a day complaining that their AC doesn’t blow as cold as it should. They all blow 45-50 when it’s hot out, the heat saturation inside takes a long time to overcome.
It’s been around 100 every day here since I bought my truck and I have tried to figure out the best setup to get it cool since day 1. I’m Ok with the way it is now.

 

[RamCares]

I just heard from the dealer and they said that service checked everything including the Freon and it’s operating normal. I figured that’s what they we going to say. Now I’m really bummed out.

Hi Limited,

Do you know if a STAR case was created? The STAR team is an additional technical resource that the dealer can call for assistance. Send us a direct message as we'd be glad to look more into this.

Jasmine
Ram Social Care Specialist