40 mpg...

[1Zach1]

If it turns out to be a real world 1,000mile truck like RAM has claimed, there isn't much more of a selling point I need. I have loved the EcoDiesel in my Grand Cherokee so I look forward to seeing how the re-test goes.

 

[CGIron]

Very exiting wait for the new test. 40 mpg is insane.

 

[Firebird]

I don't see 40mpg happening

 

[rescueswimmer]

If they run it again and get 33+ its going to be a game changer...might have to jump ship...16 mpg with a 34 mile one way commute is killing me

I'm holding out for the Eco, but it would take almost 75k miles to break even at 33 mpg vs 16mpg and the 4k upcharge on the diesel to break even. That does not add in the extra cost of owning a diesel.

 

[SilverSurfer15]

Let’s say you paid 50k for a hemi truck, and 55k for a ecodiesel. Drive for a few years, trade it in. Hemi truck is worth 25k. Ecodiesel is worth 28k. What’s the real difference? 2k dollars.

No one ever talks about how the truck will be worth more at resale. It’s not like you just pay for the diesel option without any benefit, it makes the truck more valuable.

IMO the only questions to ask yourself are:

1) Am I willing to accept that I might have to leave this truck in for service more often or for longer periods of time for warranty repairs as opposed to a relatively stable hemi platform?

2) Am I planning to own this truck without factory warranty?

These are the two big ticket items with a diesel. Costly repairs outside of warranty and people upset they have to leave their trucks at the dealer for extended periods of time due to repairs.

 

[securityguy]

Let’s say you paid 50k for a hemi truck, and 55k for a ecodiesel. Drive for a few years, trade it in. Hemi truck is worth 25k. Ecodiesel is worth 28k. What’s the real difference? 2k dollars.

No one ever talks about how the truck will be worth more at resale. It’s not like you just pay for the diesel option without any benefit, it makes the truck more valuable.

Flawed thoughts my friend. Of course a more expensive truck is going to have a higher resale because it was a more expensive truck Your numbers aren't "real" but assumptions so I'll play along. If I pay $50K for a HEMI and $55K for a DIESEL, then I spent $5K more for the DIESEL. If after several years, the $50K truck is worth $25K, as you stated, then I lost $25K on my investment. If the DIESEL is worth $28K, then I lost $27K...in the end, the real difference may very well be ZERO (using your math it shows $2K but we have no idea what's "real"). Who says that the diesel trucks will hold their value any better than the proven HEMI? Just sayin.....

 

[SilverSurfer15]

You’re correct, but what I’m saying is you get most of the money spent back. It’s not like saying you spend 4-5k on the diesel and now both trucks are worth the Same value in the end, 25k in this case. If that were true, then yes you would have to make up the full difference in fuel savings alone. But it’s not the case. You spent more on the truck, it’s worth more later as you said.

 

[silver billet]

Don't forget, oil changes are twice as expensive, and you just need 1 def/diesel related repair outside the warranty period and you will never recoup the cost of the diesel.

Don't buy a diesel "to save money", you never will unless you spend all day every day in your truck. Buy a diesel because you like how it drives, tows, smells etc.

 

[silver billet]

You’re correct, but what I’m saying is you get most of the money spent back. It’s not like saying you spend 4-5k on the diesel and now both trucks are worth the Same value in the end, 25k in this case. If that were true, then yes you would have to make up the full difference in fuel savings alone. But it’s not the case. You spent more on the truck, it’s worth more later as you said.

As mentioned, there is a flaw in your thinking. You still lost $2000 when you traded your diesel in. You spent more money for the same truck. You need to keep it long enough before the gas savings kick in, and at that point where gas is saving you money, you're outside the warranty with a very expensive-to-fix engine.

 

[Talisman]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is an oil change on a diesel more expensive?

Why is diesel repair more expensive than a gas engine? I realize that the previous diesel motor had some issues. Assuming that the point of those catastrophic failures have been corrected, why wouldn’t the motor go a couple hundred thousand miles like a gasser could? Why would repair/parts cost more? Is it that the cost of parts is higher due to a generally low production of the motor when compared to the 5.7 Hemi?

 

[SilverSurfer15]

As mentioned, there is a flaw in your thinking. You still lost $2000 when you traded your diesel in. You spent more money for the same truck. You need to keep it long enough before the gas savings kick in, and at that point where gas is saving you money, you're outside the warranty with a very expensive-to-fix engine.

Nowhere did I even say anything about it being a smarter decision, I’m just simply stating if you are going to do the cost break down you might as well do it correctly. You should get back 70-80% back on book value for the diesel option.

 

[1Zach1]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is an oil change on a diesel more expensive?

1: Because they can
2: The oil is more expensive
3: Because they can

 

[SilverSurfer15]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is an oil change on a diesel more expensive?

In general, a gas engine takes 5-6qts. A diesel takes 10-20 depending on size and what have you. This is a loose explanation, but the diesel has 2-3 times as much oil capacity.

 

[silver billet]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is an oil change on a diesel more expensive?

Why is diesel repair more expensive than a gas engine? I realize that the previous diesel motor had some issues. Assuming that the point of those catastrophic failures have been corrected, why wouldn’t the motor go a couple hundred thousand miles like a gasser could? Why would repair/parts cost more? Is it that the cost of parts is higher due to a generally low production of the motor when compared to the 5.7 Hemi?

Mainly the EGR system, the pollution control stuff, it's a nightmare for pretty much every new diesel out there, from small little cars to big rigs. The block/pistons/rings etc in a diesel aren't the issue.

I know personally of 5 guys who own the previous gen ED (before 2019); 2 out of those had several thousand dollar repairs on the EGR system. I don't remember if it was warrantied or not, but I don't like those odds.

 

[1Zach1]

In general, a gas engine takes 5-6qts. A diesel takes 10-20 depending on size and what have you. This is a loose explanation, but the diesel has 2-3 times as much oil capacity.

The Hemi takes 7-8, the ED takes 11.

 

[Granite5thgen]

Never said I was getting an eco diesel lol. Currently looking at a 3rd gen g56 truck. Miss my Cummins too much. For a 1500 I dont see a better truck than the ones we have though

 

[Apexcars]

Repairs also cost more because diesels have to run at much higher compression than gas and that makes many of the parts more expensive. Look at the cost of fuel injectors for a gas engine vs diesel. The fact that there are a lot fewer diesel mechanics, especially at car dealerships, means that they can charge a premium for their work.

Plus when you figure in the fact that diesel now costs more per gallon than gas and the extra cost of DEF and the inconvenience of finding diesel stations and adding DEF there are even more factors against diesel for a light duty truck.

 

[brotharon]

Yes, the hemi sounds so good. One of the best sounding engines of all time...give it a better muffler than the factory one and grin every time you mash the loud pedal.

 

[duncnjf]

Repairs also cost more because diesels have to run at much higher compression than gas and that makes many of the parts more expensive. Look at the cost of fuel injectors for a gas engine vs diesel. The fact that there are a lot fewer diesel mechanics, especially at car dealerships, means that they can charge a premium for their work.

Plus when you figure in the fact that diesel now costs more per gallon than gas and the extra cost of DEF and the inconvenience of finding diesel stations and adding DEF there are even more factors against diesel for a light duty truck.

Watching the videos of the interviews of FCA's chief engineer for the eco-diesel, he says you will fill up the DEF tank about as often as you get oil changes. So it doesn't seem like you'll need to get DEF every time you fill up the diesel tank.

 

[go-ram]

Flawed thoughts my friend. Of course a more expensive truck is going to have a higher resale because it was a more expensive truck Your numbers aren't "real" but assumptions so I'll play along. If I pay $50K for a HEMI and $55K for a DIESEL, then I spent $5K more for the DIESEL. If after several years, the $50K truck is worth $25K, as you stated, then I lost $25K on my investment. If the DIESEL is worth $28K, then I lost $27K...in the end, the real difference may very well be ZERO (using your math it shows $2K but we have no idea what's "real"). Who says that the diesel trucks will hold their value any better than the proven HEMI? Just sayin.....

.
Not quite. What SilverSurfer15 is saying is correct. Although an Ecodiesel (ED) buyer invests $3k up-front compared to the exact same truck with the 5.7 L Hemi gas engine (or $5k relative to the base 3.6 L motor), the ED owner has, historically, gotten at least $2k, maybe $2.5k, back at resale. It is absolutely true that in the long run, the net cost to buy the ED option was $1-2k, not the full $4-5k original purchase price some people throw around. Of course there is a separate net benefit/loss in the equation in terms of operating costs (i.e. less spent on fuel with the ED but more spent on maintenance).

Not to mention, by your logic, a lot more people should be buying the base 3.6 L gas V6, because for absolute certain the 5.7 L Hemi never pays for itself compared to the 3.6L V6. Sure, some people need the 5.7 L Hemi for towing, but nowhere near as many owners truly need the Hemi as want the Hemi and buy the Hemi. So it's no different for the person who WANTS to buy the Ecodiesel over the Hemi as it is for the person who WANTS to buy the Hemi over the V6 (except in the case of owners who will actually be towing heavier loads than the V6 can safely tow at speed).