40 mpg...

[bgmshrm]

Watching the videos of the interviews of FCA's chief engineer for the eco-diesel, he says you will fill up the DEF tank about as often as you get oil changes. So it doesn't seem like you'll need to get DEF every time you fill up the diesel tank.

No one has to fill it Everytime in any pickup . 5k to. 10k usually

 

[SilverSurfer15]

Not quite. What SilverSurfer15 is saying is correct. Although an Ecodiesel (ED) buyer invests $3k up-front compared to the exact same truck with the 5.7 L Hemi gas engine (or $5k relative to the base 3.6 L motor), the ED owner has, historically, gotten at least $2k, maybe $2.5k, back at resale. It is absolutely true that in the long run, the net cost to buy the ED option was $1-2k, not the full $4-5k original purchase price some people throw around. Of course there is a separate net benefit/loss in the equation in terms of operating costs (i.e. less spent on fuel with the ED but more spent on maintenance).

Not to mention, by your logic, a lot more people should be buying the base 3.6 L gas V6, because for absolute certain the 5.7 L Hemi never pays for itself compared to the 3.6L V6. Sure, some people need the 5.7 L Hemi for towing, but nowhere near as many owners truly need the Hemi as want the Hemi and buy the Hemi. So it's no different for the person who WANTS to buy the Ecodiesel over the Hemi as it is for the person who WANTS to buy the Hemi over the V6 (except in the case of owners who will actually be towing heavier loads than the V6 can safely tow at speed).

This guy gets it

 

[silver billet]

.
Not quite. What SilverSurfer15 is saying is correct. Although an Ecodiesel (ED) buyer invests $3k up-front compared to the exact same truck with the 5.7 L Hemi gas engine (or $5k relative to the base 3.6 L motor), the ED owner has, historically, gotten at least $2k, maybe $2.5k, back at resale. It is absolutely true that in the long run, the net cost to buy the ED option was $1-2k, not the full $4-5k original purchase price some people throw around. Of course there is a separate net benefit/loss in the equation in terms of operating costs (i.e. less spent on fuel with the ED but more spent on maintenance).

Not to mention, by your logic, a lot more people should be buying the base 3.6 L gas V6, because for absolute certain the 5.7 L Hemi never pays for itself compared to the 3.6L V6. Sure, some people need the 5.7 L Hemi for towing, but nowhere near as many owners truly need the Hemi as want the Hemi and buy the Hemi. So it's no different for the person who WANTS to buy the Ecodiesel over the Hemi as it is for the person who WANTS to buy the Hemi over the V6 (except in the case of owners who will actually be towing heavier loads than the V6 can safely tow at speed).

It's completely pointless to separate operating costs vs purchase cost. When you do the math (and many have), you don't (certainly I wouldn't) break even until you're outside the warranty period.

You're second argument I agree with, the ED is a want for the majority of ED buyers rather a cost savings choice. However, the hemi vs v6 is not on the same scale as ED vs Hemi. Some owners here have reported that the V6 has trouble maintaining highway speeds under wind or hilly conditions, towing even a small trailer just amplifies that. I owned the exact same v6 in my Jeep GC for 5 years, the poor drive train performance was pretty much the clincher for getting rid of it, the rest of the GC was absolutely awesome in every way.

The Hemi outperforms both the ED and the V6 in acceleration and towing. So; when comparing ED vs V6 vs V8, the obvious choice for max fun + max towing + max cost savings, that has to equal the Hemi for most people. The ED's only real benefit over the Hemi is fuel savings, but that won't kick in until warranty has expired and then you're on the hook for any EGR repairs ... and then you just lost all your savings. That's what we're saying, there is a _chance_ you can save money with the ED, but it's a slim one for most people. And "fun factor", well, the Hemi has more fun in my opinion (the sound track is stunning), but some may still prefer the driving style of a diesel.

 

[go-ram]

It's completely pointless to separate operating costs vs purchase cost. When you do the math (and many have), you don't (certainly I wouldn't) break even until you're outside the warranty period.

You're second argument I agree with, the ED is a want for the majority of ED buyers rather a cost savings choice. However, the hemi vs v6 is not on the same scale as ED vs Hemi. Some owners here have reported that the V6 has trouble maintaining highway speeds under wind or hilly conditions, towing even a small trailer just amplifies that. I owned the exact same v6 in my Jeep GC for 5 years, the poor drive train performance was pretty much the clincher for getting rid of it, the rest of the GC was absolutely awesome in every way.

The Hemi outperforms both the ED and the V6 in acceleration and towing. So; when comparing ED vs V6 vs V8, the obvious choice for max fun + max towing + max cost savings, that has to equal the Hemi for most people. The ED's only real benefit over the Hemi is fuel savings, but that won't kick in until warranty has expired and then you're on the hook for any EGR repairs ... and then you just lost all your savings. That's what we're saying, there is a _chance_ you can save money with the ED, but it's a slim one for most people. And "fun factor", well, the Hemi has more fun in my opinion (the sound track is stunning), but some may still prefer the driving style of a diesel.

.
I never said anything about break-even. I just said it is flawed logic to not take into account the resale value of the Ecodiesel.

Also, many people use the $5k figure as THE cost of the Ecodiesel, even though Ecodiesel only $3k more than the Hemi they purchased. It is flawed logic to use the $5k price to calculate payback IF a person was going to buy the Hemi anyway, rather than the 3.6 L gas V6.

I also never said one should separate operating costs from total costs. I was merely pointing out that the comparative operating costs, as well as the net cost (after resale) to upgrade to the Ecodiesel, all have to be included in a proper, accurate calculation of net cost-of-ownership.

At least we agree that buying the Hemi is, for many, many owners, a "want" rather than a "need", just as buying the Ecodiesel is, for most owners, a "want".

 

[j517]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is an oil change on a diesel more expensive?

Why is diesel repair more expensive than a gas engine? I realize that the previous diesel motor had some issues. Assuming that the point of those catastrophic failures have been corrected, why wouldn’t the motor go a couple hundred thousand miles like a gasser could? Why would repair/parts cost more? Is it that the cost of parts is higher due to a generally low production of the motor when compared to the 5.7 Hemi?

I had 3 f250 diesels 2010 2012 2015 diesels maintenance is expensive. 2010 no def so its was just cost on maintenance at 50 or 60 sec was like 1k filters and other stupid stuff

2012 def fluid expensive *** turbo had issues I traded in before expensive *** repairs had 60k miles

2015 95k miles blew def hose stealer **** wanted 2k on ripoffreap RIP off repair back up cam defective 1k had hub replaced because dealership incompetence 3500 do the math man had a tundra before that no issues had 100k miles

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

 

[rescueswimmer]

I think everybody makes good points, and every buyer has different levels of expendable income and different wants and needs. So there is no real right answer but you can use math to give you facts and everybody can make their own decision if its worth it or not.

Just take the truck and assume you are not going to sell it for an extended time period.

If regular gas is .40 cents cheaper than diesel current national average, and that varies from state to state The up front cost of the D is 3K using Fuelly as the most accurate measure of the mean. (that I know of) Using 15.5 MPG for the Hemi and 22MPG for the previous Gen D. It will take you over 105K to recoup that 3K upcharge. Just an extra 500.00 in maintenance cost and its almost 140K miles to break even. If you run Premium in your Hemi it can drop down to about 60K miles and around 90K with Mid grade fuel at current National average on all 4 types of fuel.

If you tow allot (almost the majority of your miles) the D is going to pay it self back allot sooner at least from the MPG's that others are reporting when towing vs the Hemi. You will also get the benefits of more enjoyable towing experience vs the hemi. Low RPM's of the D vs High of the Hemi on the Hwy.

If you are already in a truck and you decide to trade in for D because you believe gas every week is killing you. You will never see those savings no matter how long you keep the truck....

I believe allot of people justify the savings at the pump because they see that number every week, and that extra 3K over 60 months is just 50.00 so they believe they are saving money in the long run.

Am I forgetting something.

I'm not bashing the D,

I picked up a Cruze D for the wife at almost 2k more than the gas version but its driven 100 miles a day 95 miles on the Hwy and it was about 95K before It was supposed to break even, but it had some other pluses, quieter cabin, more torque, and handled better than the Eco so, Break even didn't matter much to the wife as much as drive-ability did. But I did also have 3 or 4 D emissions related service problems that were covered under warranty. Then that crap went bye bye. Have not had an issue since.