2023 Limited Custom Order Help

[Trippi]

I asked about this last night at the dealer. The salesperson printed me off the description of both the Elite Package and the Level 1 Equipment group. The HK system was said to be in both, but adding the Elite package did not adjust the price of L1 group. Based on what Eighty said, I'm guessing this is a bug in their system and Elite doesn't actually come with HK.

I will let you know how I make out...got my dealer to send me the Elite details and it does show the HK system...I text back that it is also in the Level 1 and there should be a price adjustment somewhere. That's enough to get him looking - you know these sales guys do not pay attention to the detail like we do. I'll report back with an update - my truck is a ways off so either it will be oh well or they will take a dealer discount to honor it. I buy all my vehicles from this dealer so could go either way.

 

[bronco44]

I will let you know how I make out...got my dealer to send me the Elite details and it does show the HK system...I text back that it is also in the Level 1 and there should be a price adjustment somewhere. That's enough to get him looking - you know these sales guys do not pay attention to the detail like we do. I'll report back with an update - my truck is a ways off so either it will be oh well or they will take a dealer discount to honor it. I buy all my vehicles from this dealer so could go either way.

When I asked, the salesperson just said if it is a mistake, they will likely give a discount when the truck comes in. But please do report back with what you find!

 

[bronco44]

Probably beating a dead horse here, but still struggling to wrap my head around the discrepancy of my trade-in value. Almost every site I use gives me a value between $21k and $24k. The only one comparable to what the dealers are saying is carfax which gives me a value of $19,670.

For reference, my current car is a 2018 Subaru Crosstrek Limited, 41,500 miles, and fully loaded (eyesight, navigation, sunroof, HK system, remote start). It almost seems like the quotes I'm getting are on the base price and not taking the trim, mileage, or features into consideration. Really hoping someone here can help me understand this so it doesn't feel like I'm being taken advantage of.

 

[Darksteel165]

Probably beating a dead horse here, but still struggling to wrap my head around the discrepancy of my trade-in value. Almost every site I use gives me a value between $21k and $24k. The only one comparable to what the dealers are saying is carfax which gives me a value of $19,670.

For reference, my current car is a 2018 Subaru Crosstrek Limited, 41,500 miles, and fully loaded (eyesight, navigation, sunroof, HK system, remote start). It almost seems like the quotes I'm getting are on the base price and not taking the trim, mileage, or features into consideration. Really hoping someone here can help me understand this so it doesn't feel like I'm being taken advantage of.

Are you giving your vin numbers and sometimes pictures of your car? Else it's not going to matter.

KBB shows 22-25k with a private party sale of 23-26k.
I would guestimate the value of your car being worth around 23k.

It also depends where you are. Some vehicles are worth way more or less depending on your zip code (generally it depends on quadrants of the USA).

Some companies you can try (you give them your vin and pictures) are
If you had a Carmax offer let them know (if you are happy with it's amount). Lots of them will honor and or beat the price by $500 and come to pick the car up at your home. Most dealers are just a few pictures exchange and a pickup and a last minute to confirm you weren't lying about damage or anything.

givemethevin
Carvana
Truecar
Vroom
Facebook Marketplace (be careful not to waste your time with this one)

I'm sure there are others too.

Prices are funny on vehicles in the used car market more now then ever. Most of these places really don't understand what stuff is worth.
Check this out. The 1 year newer with half as much milage is the same price.

This is how I ended up getting a used 2014 Kia Optima several years back from Carmax. Was cheaper then anything on their lot by around $2k even though there was no damage on it and it run fine.

Also a funny tidbit about Carmax, at 40k miles the price plummets for their trade-ins. They said they treat anything under 40k as essentially new and don't even really inspect it. Once it hits 40k they are more critical about things. You can also use their website as a tool as almost everything is sold within 90 days of being acquired so it's a good gauge of what price things move at when you haggle with other companies.

When the dealer lowballs you on the trade it, it's because they just don't want it, not always that it is not worth it.

 

[bronco44]

Are you giving your vin numbers and sometimes pictures of your car? Else it's not going to matter.

KBB shows 22-25k with a private party sale of 23-26k.
I would guestimate the value of your car being worth around 23k.

It also depends where you are. Some vehicles are worth way more or less depending on your zip code (generally it depends on quadrants of the USA).

Some companies you can try (you give them your vin and pictures) are
If you had a Carmax offer let them know (if you are happy with it's amount). Lots of them will honor and or beat the price by $500 and come to pick the car up at your home. Most dealers are just a few pictures exchange and a pickup and a last minute to confirm you weren't lying about damage or anything.

givemethevin
Carvana
Truecar
Vroom
Facebook Marketplace (be careful not to waste your time with this one)

I'm sure there are others too.

Prices are funny on vehicles in the used car market more now then ever. Most of these places really don't understand what stuff is worth.
Check this out. The 1 year newer with half as much milage is the same price.
View attachment 148472
This is how I ended up getting a used 2014 Kia Optima several years back from Carmax. Was cheaper then anything on their lot by around $2k even though there was no damage on it and it run fine.

Also a funny tidbit about Carmax, at 40k miles the price plummets for their trade-ins. They said they treat anything under 40k as essentially new and don't even really inspect it. Once it hits 40k they are more critical about things. You can also use their website as a tool as almost everything is sold within 90 days of being acquired so it's a good gauge of what price things move at when you haggle with other companies.

When the dealer lowballs you on the trade it, it's because they just don't want it, not always that it is not worth it.

I always give the VIN or license plate + state but don't upload photos. I live in NY so Subarus are a very popular vehicle around here.

Thank you for all this info. Just went through those sites you provided and was offered these prices:
carmax: $21,000
givemethevin: $17,947 - $19,954
Carvana: $21,394
Truecar: $20,575
Vroom: $16,974

So that's quite the range of numbers, but definitely leans towards my car being worth closer to $20k+. I asked the dealer if they would honor the Subaru Guaranteed Trade In price (currently $20,600) and they said no. So I'm not feeling very hopeful that they'd match carmax but I guess it's worth asking.

 

[Bpebler]

Hopefully this attaches properly. If it doesn’t I’ll attach screenshots. This is what VinSmart looks like. It shows my breakdown when I traded in. You can enter every single detail for your specific car - other sites don’t always have the full package details & some things slip through the cracks. It’s like $10-$20 & I used it to get thousands more for my trade - worth it. Black Book Value is what the dealers go by behind closed doors anyway. They always say KBB or whatever to squeeze every bit out. Carmax offered around $8000 less than what the Ram dealer gave me.

 

[Trippi]

Hopefully this attaches properly. If it doesn’t I’ll attach screenshots. This is what VinSmart looks like. It shows my breakdown when I traded in. You can enter every single detail for your specific car - other sites don’t always have the full package details & some things slip through the cracks. It’s like $10-$20 & I used it to get thousands more for my trade - worth it. Black Book Value is what the dealers go by behind closed doors anyway. They always say KBB or whatever to squeeze every bit out. Carmax offered around $8000 less than what the Ram dealer gave me.

this is pretty cool...i think i might go this same route to leverage my trade value. is the report instant? just wondering the best timing to get this done since it seems to cost money.

 

[Josh24]

Ok, probably another silly question with something I'm not fully understanding:

I just spoke with a local dealer and they informed me since I wouldn't be trading in my current car to MD, I'd be "losing" out on ~$1800 in tax savings. This combined with the delivery fee which I'm estimating to be $1700, the trucks will end up costing about the same. Is it true I'd be losing out on that $1800 tax savings? Or is that just the salesman trying to get a sale on someone who clearly doesn't know how things work? lol

Thank you all again for your help with these questions.

Another option would be to do a dealer “pass through” or “in and out.” There are a few terms for it but basically you find a buyer for your used car / trade and then go into the dealership to have them accept your vehicle on trade and immediately turn around and sell it to your buyer. It’s fairly straight forward from a paperwork standpoint. This helps avoid a low ball trade while also being able to recognize the trade difference / lower the amount of sales tax on the new vehicle. Dealerships will usually do this for a $500 administrative fee but it may save you thousands in sales tax depending on your state, etc.

 

[bronco44]

Hopefully this attaches properly. If it doesn’t I’ll attach screenshots. This is what VinSmart looks like. It shows my breakdown when I traded in. You can enter every single detail for your specific car - other sites don’t always have the full package details & some things slip through the cracks. It’s like $10-$20 & I used it to get thousands more for my trade - worth it. Black Book Value is what the dealers go by behind closed doors anyway. They always say KBB or whatever to squeeze every bit out. Carmax offered around $8000 less than what the Ram dealer gave me.

That looks interesting although I'm not a huge fan of paying for info that I'm seemingly getting free from other sites. For example the image I attached says it uses the black book value as well. I should also mention, I custom ordered this car and am its only driver, so I know it hasn't been in any accidents and was well maintained.

 

[bronco44]

Another option would be to do a dealer “pass through” or “in and out.” There are a few terms for it but basically you find a buyer for your used car / trade and then go into the dealership to have them accept your vehicle on trade and immediately turn around and sell it to your buyer. It’s fairly straight forward from a paperwork standpoint. This helps avoid a low ball trade while also being able to recognize the trade difference / lower the amount of sales tax on the new vehicle. Dealerships will usually do this for a $500 administrative fee but it may save you thousands in sales tax depending on your state, etc.

I had not heard of this and sounds very interesting although a bit difficult to pull off. I'll have to explore this and see if I can find a buyer.

 

[Bpebler]

this is pretty cool...i think i might go this same route to leverage my trade value. is the report instant? just wondering the best timing to get this done since it seems to cost money.

Yes, it took a couple minutes to get into my inbox if I remember right, but that’s it. I got this tip from my brother in law right after he got out of doing car sales at CDJR dealers for 10 years. He still had access to black book values but I needed the printout & this is how I obtained it. Printed it & brought it with me to the dealer.

 

[Bpebler]

That looks interesting although I'm not a huge fan of paying for info that I'm seemingly getting free from other sites. For example the image I attached says it uses the black book value as well. I should also mention, I custom ordered this car and am its only driver, so I know it hasn't been in any accidents and was well maintained.

I’m not sure what platform that’s from. VinSmart was a lot more specific than the free sites though - it’s a 10 page report. At the time, it was the only one I knew of that had both JD Power & Black Book. Seemingly, for sure - might want to web search whatever yours is vs VinSmart & see what the differences are.

My trade in was the same as yours - brand new, only driver, no accidents, meticulously maintained, high in demand, etc.

 

[bronco44]

I’m not sure what platform that’s from. VinSmart was a lot more specific than the free sites though - it’s a 10 page report. At the time, it was the only one I knew of that had both JD Power & Black Book. Seemingly, for sure - might want to web search whatever yours is vs VinSmart & see what the differences are.

My trade in was the same as yours - brand new, only driver, no accidents, meticulously maintained, high in demand, etc.

That was just a screenshot from caranddriver. I found a fancier one earlier that used Black Book but don't remember the site.

Maybe I'll call tomorrow and see if they will match VinSmart (or any site). We talked about my trade-in for probably 10-15 minutes while I was there and pretty much everything they said was "we are giving you the best value on both the truck and the trade-in, there is nothing we can do to get you a better deal". So my hopes of them matching are slim, hence my hesitation to pay for that report.

 

[Bpebler]

They said the same thing to me until I showed them the report in hand & started hesitating. They agreed bc they knew I was going to walk away soon. Every dealer is different per the management though. I mean, I’m not trying to talk you into something just offering another solution. Only you can decide if you wanna flip 20 bucks for it or not. MaloDave had the best suggestion I’ve heard so far. Get a crazy good discount deal in writing from the same dealer or Mark Dodge & bring that in along with a Black Book value printout maybe.

 

[bronco44]

They said the same thing to me until I showed them the report in hand & started hesitating. They agreed bc they knew I was going to walk away soon. Every dealer is different per the management though. I mean, I’m not trying to talk you into something just offering another solution. Only you can decide if you wanna flip 20 bucks for it or not. MaloDave had the best suggestion I’ve heard so far. Get a crazy good discount deal in writing from the same dealer or Mark Dodge & bring that in along with a Black Book value printout maybe.

Both of the dealers I've gone too have required a ~5% down payment for the truck and have claimed that once I place the order, that truck is mine and there's no backing out.

I should reach out to MD again and have them price my slightly different build and see what they say. At the very least I can bring it up to my dealer and see if they budge at all.

 

[Trippi]

Both of the dealers I've gone too have required a ~5% down payment for the truck and have claimed that once I place the order, that truck is mine and there's no backing out.

I should reach out to MD again and have them price my slightly different build and see what they say. At the very least I can bring it up to my dealer and see if they budge at all.

I've been following since I am in the same boat as you. I totally understand that you want to be sure you are getting the best deal for you and feel comfortable. Just reading your experience so far I do not feel comfy with your dealer. LOL! My dealer - albeit a friend where I have purchased all of my vehicles - placed my order with zero money down. Even wilder is we did not even agree to a price...that's another long story. But I am not going to worry about it. I told him if we can't agree on an affordable price and I will get pricing from another dealer...then the truck will look real good sitting on your lot

 

[Bpebler]

Both of the dealers I've gone too have required a ~5% down payment for the truck and have claimed that once I place the order, that truck is mine and there's no backing out.

I should reach out to MD again and have them price my slightly different build and see what they say. At the very least I can bring it up to my dealer and see if they budge at all.

Your dealer requires what?! Is this Canada or the US? I would not even consider doing business with them. 5% minimum down payment?? It should always be around $500-$1000 down to start a build, then the down payment comes when it’s time to figure financing, etc once the vehicle has arrived. Some are refundable, some are not but a required down payment I have not heard of until now. That’s a lot of money to put down with the possibility of never seeing it again should anything happen between now & receiving the vehicle. Sounds more like entrapment. Man, I’m mad for you just thinking about it. Lol I’ve always had a $1000 fully refundable deposit whether used, new, or custom build to reserve the vehicle. I’ve recently been in talks with other brand dealerships for my backup vehicle & the newest thing I’ve heard was from an Acura dealer & that was just a $500 refundable deposit on vehicles the dealer builds (their choices) & a $500 non refundable deposit on custom builds. I’d prefer the $1000 refundable deposit on custom build like I did on my Ram. The dealer will still find a buyer no matter what, so I don’t understand why these 2 dealers of yours would require so much. I’ll ask my brother in law if he’s ever heard of this. Now that he’s gotten out of vehicles sales, he works for a bank that gives the dealers their loans as an auditor - so he knows a lot of the shady tricks they do.

 

[jmrhodes212]

This excerpt below is from one article, but there is consensus that this is the future for this year. The days of new cars being a better value than used are over. Asking a dealer to predict a used cars value for 3 months from now is a slippery slope and when you combine this with a custom order that they will be making limited profit on, your scenario is playing out about as would be expected. If a person is buying a new car and trading in, the best bet is to do that as soon as possible because the used values are going to drop significantly in the next few months.

Analysts say that new car prices could drop by as much as 5 percent in 2023. But it's used car buyers who should see some relief after a year of big price spikes: "Pre-owned" vehicle prices could decline by as much as 20 percent.

 

[bronco44]

I've been following since I am in the same boat as you. I totally understand that you want to be sure you are getting the best deal for you and feel comfortable. Just reading your experience so far I do not feel comfy with your dealer. LOL! My dealer - albeit a friend where I have purchased all of my vehicles - placed my order with zero money down. Even wilder is we did not even agree to a price...that's another long story. But I am not going to worry about it. I told him if we can't agree on an affordable price and I will get pricing from another dealer...then the truck will look real good sitting on your lot

Well I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling uncomfortable with the deals I'm getting. Don't suppose your dealer friend wants another friend? lol

This makes me feel better though and now I know I should definitely keep shopping around. Thank you

 

[bronco44]

Your dealer requires what?! Is this Canada or the US? I would not even consider doing business with them. 5% minimum down payment?? It should always be around $500-$1000 down to start a build, then the down payment comes when it’s time to figure financing, etc once the vehicle has arrived. Some are refundable, some are not but a required down payment I have not heard of until now. That’s a lot of money to put down with the possibility of never seeing it again should anything happen between now & receiving the vehicle. Sounds more like entrapment. Man, I’m mad for you just thinking about it. Lol I’ve always had a $1000 fully refundable deposit whether used, new, or custom build to reserve the vehicle. I’ve recently been in talks with other brand dealerships for my backup vehicle & the newest thing I’ve heard was from an Acura dealer & that was just a $500 refundable deposit on vehicles the dealer builds (their choices) & a $500 non refundable deposit on custom builds. I’d prefer the $1000 refundable deposit on custom build like I did on my Ram. The dealer will still find a buyer no matter what, so I don’t understand why these 2 dealers of yours would require so much. I’ll ask my brother in law if he’s ever heard of this. Now that he’s gotten out of vehicles sales, he works for a bank that gives the dealers their loans as an auditor - so he knows a lot of the shady tricks they do.

I'm in the US, New York to be specific. Sorry, not a down payment, but a deposit. They said it would be applied as part of my down payment once the truck came in.

On top of the 5%, they also required a full loan approval (hard credit hit), instead of just a pre-approval. Their reasoning for both was something like "dealers were placing orders acting as customers so that they'd get the truck faster to sell on the lot". Also claimed that policy came down from Ram, but certainly seems like it's something they both made up after hearing this feedback. When I ordered my Crosstrek, I think I had to do a $100 refundable deposit. I appreciate any info you can get!

I originally emailed 20+ dealers in my area but only heard back from maybe 6. So far I've visited the 2 that gave me the best deal. But seems like it's time to reach out to those other 14 and hopefully find a more reasonable dealer. I really wish I lived closer to MD or the other recommended dealers I've seen on this forum. Seems like they take away a lot of this headache.