2020 RAM Laramie 4WD Audio System Build w/ 12" Display and JL Audio Stealthbox

[Sonnie]

With the Amp PRO, when you use the optical cable and module, it takes place of the rca cable to connect to the amp?

Yes, that is correct. It sends a combined full range signal to the amp. As long as your amp, or your DSP if you are going to a DSP first (such as the miniDSP, etc) has an optical input. The JL VX1000 amp that I have just happens to have an optical input.

I feel like if they can make mine with 3 10’s and it only is on top of my mats in the middle where the 3 subs are I can’t understand how they couldn’t make one for 2 10’s that angled back behind the mats like the JL ones. Have you reached out to them directly?

I'm with you, I don't see why they can't either, and perhaps they have figured out a way by now. It's been about a year since I had mine built, but at that time, they specifically advised me there was no way they could build it to allow use of the floor storage bins. I complained about it after I got it, and James reminded me that he warned me about it.

 

[bfhawki]

Thank guys. I might call them next week and see if they have anything new. Not a lot of pics on their website for the Ram.

 

[Ellisstrong]

Yes, that is correct. It sends a combined full range signal to the amp. As long as your amp, or your DSP if you are going to a DSP first (such as the miniDSP, etc) has an optical input. The JL VX1000 amp that I have just happens to have an optical input.


I'm with you, I don't see why they can't either, and perhaps they have figured out a way by now. It's been about a year since I had mine built, but at that time, they specifically advised me there was no way they could build it to allow use of the floor storage bins. I complained about it after I got it, and James reminded me that he warned me about it.

Yeah mine allows me to access my floor bins so they must have took your advice lol. James was who I dealt with as well.

 

[Sonnie]

Update... I disconnected the upper door speakers today, and covered the opening with closed cell foam. This really does help the sound stage in my opinion... puts it more up front, and it just seems smoother all around... not as confused to me. Don't get me wrong, it's not ever going to be SQ competition good with the factory setup, but it's definitely better for me and I plan to leave them disconnected.

Next up... I have confirmed that I will be attempting to swap out the FaitalPRO 3" with the 4", just to see what it will sound like and measure like, and if nothing else they will handle a little more power. I created a template with a PVC sheet I had, cutting out a 4" ring with a 3.5" inner hole to mimic the outer diameter of the 4" with the expected cutout. I was able to trim the dash opening so that it would fit pretty easily on both sides. I trimmed the top area that prevents the outer edge of the speaker from sitting flat. I did not trim the cutout yet, because once I do that, the only way to mount the 3" or factory speakers back in the opening will be to make a mounting plate, as the cutout will get into the factory screw retainers. I don't see any issue trimming the cutout and having room to still mount the speaker with at least two of the tabs, although the other two tabs will have to be trimmed. I'm not sure on the center, but when I looked at it last, it appears to have the most room under the grill of the three, so hopefully it won't be an issue.

In case anyone is wondering, I used my Dremel tool with the right angle adapter and a sanding drum and it worked perfectly to trim it down. This will be what I use to trim the cutout as well... it was fast and easy.

I looked around for other 4" speakers, but most of them would be too large or their sensitivity is too low... other than maybe the Hertz DCX model. They might work okay, but I'm not sure I care for the PEI tweeter they use, as those can be a bit harsh, and I have no way to adjust the response. Plus, just to try them out will require trimming two of the tabs, which will negate the ability to send them back for a refund if I don't like them. The Infinity 4" are a possibility, although if the 3.5" were not up to par, I'm not sure the 4" would be either.

 

[Sonnie]

So remember that statement I made in my first post, "it's good enough I can live with it and not have to go thru the a full overhaul". This is something you should NEVER say! If it were TRUE, I would not have ordered another JL amp (6-channel) and another miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL (after selling the other one I had just a week or so ago). The problem (other than I just can't shake the bug) is the front stage. I can't get it up high enough with the door speakers playing frequencies that are pulling it down, and the imaging is just not sufficient with the center speaker being used. It's moving around on me too much. Disconnecting the upper door speakers helped, but the factory system has the doors high-passed too high to keep the stage from wondering off the dash and too much to the sides. I could probably cap the door speakers, but what fun would that me, and it doesn't solve my center imaging issue either.

It's really difficult to have a JBL MS-8 processor for several years (I think I still have two of them in my shop) ... then a miniDSP, which is even better than the MS-8, and try to be satisfied with less. The processors will spoil you. I'm already half way there with the Stealthbox installed, so why not take the next step and go all the way with it.

This also opens up the possibilities of other dash speakers that do not have to be as high sensitivity to work with the factory amp, since the factory amp will only be used on the rear door speakers to keep the ANC active. And I'm still going to try to a 4" dash speaker work, but open up my options. I'd love to keep the doors nipped at about 250Hz and have the dash speakers take over there, so having something that can do that job will be a requirement.

 

[bfhawki]

Keep us posted.

 

[IBEW11SPARKY]

I STAND CORRECTED!!! At least I think I do. I stated that I did not think the subwoofer in the HK system with e-Torque is used for ANC due to what others had said about not having any issues tapping into the subwoofer speaker leads to feed their aftermarket sub amp. I now believe it may be used.

I finished up the Stealthbox install yesterday, and tonight my wife and I drove about an hour to do some shopping and take care of a few errands. I started noticing the old dreaded drone noise. The entire time I was thinking, why am I just now noticing that I may not have connected the door speakers correctly. Then I got to thinking... is what I am hearing from the sub. So I turn the headunit volume down, turn the sub control up... sure enough, it's from the sub. When I am driving 55 and let off the gas to coast, hear it comes, very pronounced. I can turn the sub off, no noise... turn it back on, it's there. If I press the gas pedal again, it goes away. It pretty much has to be the ANC kicking in, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what noise it is trying to combat, because when I have the sub turned off and let off the gas to coast, I don't hear a thing. Of course I am FAR from knowledgeable about how the ANC works, and it may not be this, but it makes sense that it is. The JL amp is amplifying the ANC signal to the sub when the sub is turned up, and it gets louder as the sub level increases.

THEREFORE... at this point, I cannot recommend using the subwoofer speaker leads to feed into a JL Audio LoC-22. I can't speak for feeding into high-level inputs on an amp (my amp does not have high-level inputs). I know of at least one member here that is using the sub leads into his amp and claims no noise, but I don't remember what system he has. I also did not check the polarity of the sub, which may resolve the issue. If reverse polarity resolved drone noise in the door speakers, it may very well take care of it for the sub... I will check and see. OTHERWISE... I will pickup a PAC AmpPRO and run thru it instead of the LoC-22 and that should work, as it worked for me in my 2019 without having to disable the ANC. The PAC bypasses the ANC/factory amp... whereas the sub leads do not, so it makes sense the sub is being used for ANC, although I suppose it could be something else, but I'm doubting it and believe it is indeed the ANC. I'm going with that until and if I can prove otherwise.

Oh... and here are the pics of the Steatlhbox and amp install...

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Hey Sonnie, So I am not to savvy with audio so I went with your recommendations and got the JL audio XVI 1000/1 amp, DRC-205 control and the LoC-22. I am getting the Stealthbox this week. Then I read this post. Lol. So I will return the LoC-22 and order the PAC AmpPro. Will you be able to use the DRC-205 as I seen that the AmpPro comes with a knob control as well?

 

[Sonnie]

You don't really need the control knob on the PAC... other than to use temporarily to set the minimum volume level, then you are done with it. If you use the optical output, then set the minimum volume fully open, all the way up. And you will also need to increase the trim level on the subwoofer output in TuN. I set it at +12, and then just use the 205 to control the bass I want. Right now, crossing it over at 50Hz with a 24dB filter. I am going to experiment with this after installing my HAT speakers in the front doors, but that's typically what I like to do to keep the sub truly transparent.

 

[Ellisstrong]

You don't really need the control knob on the PAC... other than to use temporarily to set the minimum volume level, then you are done with it. If you use the optical output, then set the minimum volume fully open, all the way up. And you will also need to increase the trim level on the subwoofer output in TuN. I set it at +12, and then just use the 205 to control the bass I want. Right now, crossing it over at 50Hz with a 24dB filter. I am going to experiment with this after installing my HAT speakers in the front doors, but that's typically what I like to do to keep the sub truly transparent.

So you recommend using the JL bass control knob over the bass control knob that came with the amppro unit?

 

[Sonnie]

It works well for me... and I like the knob better.

 

[Ellisstrong]

It works well for me... and I like the knob better.

I have the JL one too but had them just install the amppro one. The JL one will have to be ran back to the amp right?

 

[Sonnie]

Yep... back to the amp. And about the only place I could find for it that would work flush and look good was on the center panel. However, you'll have to get the Dremel out and do some delicate trimming on the back side, as the controller box is 1" x 1" square. I even had to remove the panel off the back of the controller box and move the wire around so that it would fit the correct orientation so that I could keep the indent on the knob at 7 o'clock when turned full left, and 5 o'clock when full right. It was a little bit of work, but it turned out nice and it's easy to reach and adjust when needed. Just tonight while my wife and I were in the vehicle for over an hour going here and there, I had to adjust it several times depending on the song. Being LED lit with the ability to change it to several different colors is also pretty cool.

 

[Greenchevette]

So remember that statement I made in my first post, "it's good enough I can live with it and not have to go thru the a full overhaul". This is something you should NEVER say! If it were TRUE, I would not have ordered another JL amp (6-channel) and another miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL (after selling the other one I had just a week or so ago). The problem (other than I just can't shake the bug) is the front stage. I can't get it up high enough with the door speakers playing frequencies that are pulling it down, and the imaging is just not sufficient with the center speaker being used. It's moving around on me too much. Disconnecting the upper door speakers helped, but the factory system has the doors high-passed too high to keep the stage from wondering off the dash and too much to the sides. I could probably cap the door speakers, but what fun would that me, and it doesn't solve my center imaging issue either.

It's really difficult to have a JBL MS-8 processor for several years (I think I still have two of them in my shop) ... then a miniDSP, which is even better than the MS-8, and try to be satisfied with less. The processors will spoil you. I'm already half way there with the Stealthbox installed, so why not take the next step and go all the way with it.

This also opens up the possibilities of other dash speakers that do not have to be as high sensitivity to work with the factory amp, since the factory amp will only be used on the rear door speakers to keep the ANC active. And I'm still going to try to a 4" dash speaker work, but open up my options. I'd love to keep the doors nipped at about 250Hz and have the dash speakers take over there, so having something that can do that job will be a requirement.

Ohhh those famous last words! Happy to see i'm not the only one thats been struggling with this. I just cant shake that vision of a proper active front stage and sub, with the rear (and maybe upper door?) solely used for ANC, but cant get the budget, speaker layout, and tech design right in my head. Best of luck with the build Sonnie. We'll be following along with ya!

 

[Sonnie]

Thanks... got my 6 channel JL amp in and the HAT Unity 6x9's and the HAT Legatia X3-P dash speakers... still waiting on the miniDSP.

I've had the upper door speakers disconnected for about a week now and I've not noticed any adverse effects from it... as in no noticeable difference in the ANC. I thought they might be doing more. Of course they were not there in my Apline RAM, and the subwoofer in that system made the most difference in that truck, it was nearly unbearable for me, but it was even worse when I bypassed the entire ANC. In this truck, the ANC is not affected as much by disconnecting the sub. I actually can't tell what noise the sub was getting rid of, but I know it was used as evidenced by the amplified noise. In the Alpine truck with the 3 voice coil sub, it was clear that the sub was dealing with the exhaust, but in this truck, the exhaust issue is not there when disconnecting the sub. I'm not sure if it has to do with the eTorque system or what may be different. I can only assume that the engineers changed up the exhaust in these trucks and dealt with the noise in a different way.

At any rate... here's where I am with the ANC on my truck right now. If I plug in my bypass adapter, I can hear the engine revving up and changing gears at take off... although it's not as bad at highway speeds, yet still slightly noticeable. At present I do NOT have the bypass adapter installed, but I do have the subwoofer and the upper front door speakers disconnected. I am not able to notice any difference in the effects of the ANC.

 

[Jjanacek]

Well I was wrong... the factory speakers are not 6dB louder than the Infinity speakers... just to get that out of the way. But they are between 3-4dB louder.

Did some testing today.... measured each of the speakers listed below with each one mounted in the left front dash. The SPL meter tip was 1 inch above center of speaker (although moving it around a 1/2" or so did not change the level). I recorded a 1kHz tone from REW... and also Pink Periodic Noise full range (FR) 20Hz-20kHz. I also measured the resistance of each speaker.

Factory Speaker
4.1 ohm
1kHz = 85dB
FR = 84dB

Infinity Reference 3032
2.6 ohm
1kHz = 81dB
FR = 81dB

FaitalPRO 3FE22
3.9 ohm
1kHz = 85dB
FR = 84dB

I already had all three Infinity speakers in the dash and they have been very disappointing to say the least. They are clean, but the highs are rolled off, and/or they don't have very good off-axis response, despite bouncing off the windshield. I installed one of the FaitalPRO speakers in the left side and left the Infinity on the right. I played several songs with the bass EQ slider down at -9 and faded fully front, then quickly moved the balance slider from left to right and back to left, so that I could compare the two speakers. The FaitalPRO speaker was no doubt better sounding to me, and the highs were back. The Infinity sounded muffled (and I tried more than one... as I had one pair from Crutchfield and one pair from eBay). I then decided to try the factory speaker again... and it was still a wee bit brighter than the FaitalPRO, but it was very close in the highs, although not as harsh as the factory speaker. I could tell I was not losing any volume with the FaitalPRO like I was with the Infinity. The real difference came when I cranked up the volume to 30-32 and moved the balance control back and forth. The factory speaker sounded very distorted on several songs, while the FaitalPRO was very clean (as was the Infinity). Clearly the factory speaker is inferior when it comes to power handling and high-volume sound. Surprisingly on some songs, it held its own, but you could tell when it was not liking a particular song. So the Infinity and FaitalPRO are clean, but the FaitalPRO has more volume, and it matches up better with the remainder of the factory system better in my opinion, although I still want to replace the upper door speakers... and rear headliner speakers with the FaitalPRO.

I need no further testing and or convincing that the FaitalPRO are the clear winner for me. I installed all three across the dash and now this system is literally amazing, even without a subwoofer. I can now crank the bass EQ back up to around +4 with the mid at +2 and the high at +5. The front stage is seriously good. Again, not competition sound quality grade, but still very very good for a factory amp powered system. I have ordered 4 more of the FaitalPRO speakers to install in the top of the door and the rear headliner. The only drawback to the FaitalPRO is I had to dremel off one of the four tabs and create my own holes with screws in the mounting area, which was not a big deal, but they are not just a drop in using the same screw holes.

Keep in mind, this is all my subjective opinion as far as what I like in my truck. I am not judging anyone else that has these Infinity speakers... they may be exactly what you want and/or may sound different in your truck. I am in NO WAY suggesting you have inferior speakers in your truck. If they are working for you, they may work for many others as well. My point being... try whatever you want to try and keep it if you like it. If you haven't been happy, you might consider other speakers.... and the FaitalPRO may not be what you like. I just happen to love how they sound in my truck.

I decided to do a little bit of measuring this morning to see what the response looks like in the 2020 with the factory speakers (less the factory sub) and the FaitalPRO's installed in the dash. I used Pink Periodic Noise recorded from 20Hz to 20kHz in REW.

Keep in mind this is withOUT the factory sub (it is on a shelf in my shop).

The first measurement (green) is with all EQ bands set to 0 (flat in the audio settings) with the mic centered at the driver's head area... and the second (purple) is a nearfield measurement of the FaitalPRO. The bass is this truck without a sub is really good, and now I can see why. The response is remarkably good for a factory system. Typically it is preferred to have the curve resemble what you see with the green response line, with the bass being heavy (10-15dB) and dropping off gradually all the way out to 20kHz. If that hump wasn't there in that 1kHz area, it would be borderline excellent... with maybe a slight boost in the 250-800 range. Obviously it would be nice to fix a few areas, but for a factory response, this is very acceptable. The dash speakers appear to be crossed over (high-passed) at 300Hz, which is perfect. What we see in the lower bass region is from the door speakers, since I am not able to turn those off. If they were disconnected, we'd see the response of the FaitalPRO's keep dropping off below 200Hz instead of flattening out as it does.

View attachment 60500

FWIW... I did not remove the speaker grill on the nearfield measurement of the FaitalPRO's. I probably should have so that I could get closer to the speaker and make sure I was centered. I will do this at a later time so that it will be somewhat more accurate.


Then I wanted to see what was happening with the EQ band adjustments... so I measured each band at +7 to see the frequency range affected. It appears they are using a fairly wide bandwidth (low Q factor) centered around 60Hz, 1kHz and 10kHz.

View attachment 60501

If I have time, and don't sell the Infinity dash speakers, I may hook one of those back up and measure it to compare the response to the FaitalPRO and then I can see the difference I was hearing during my direct comparison.

Im new here but confused. I own a 2020 1500 Lonestar with the same Alpine 505watt weak system in it. Everything Im finding rates the factory dash speakers at 2 ohm. Not 4. Whats the difference? I had a 15 with the same Alpine system in it and in my opinion sounded better factory. Matters not its getting gutted as we speak. As soon as I figure out how to remove these dann door panels. This truck is getting a serious audio makeover.

 

[Jjanacek]

Yep, I could easily do that since it's running on the Kicker amp now. I'll give that a try tomorrow hopefully.

So obviously I put the FaitalPROs in my dash today. I think I’m on the same page as you - the Infinity’s are noticeably lacking in the highs even though my graphs don’t show it, but my ears certainly heard it when doing the same fade L/R test with one of each installed. After swapping the whole set, music is brighter than it was before, but not to the point of being harsh (my EQ for treble is set +1). I currently have the mids set +4 to lift up that trough in the 800 Hz-1.7 Khz range. I can post another graph with my EQ settings as well. I ended up using metal snips to get them to fit. Took about 20 seconds per speaker once I figured out exactly how to fit them. I will say the stock mids/tweeters push higher much stronger. Past about 16 Khz, the Faital & Infinity roll off but the stock speaker keeps on truckin'... and now that I mention it, you can see that on my graphs! The aluminum dome tweeters in the stock speakers can push higher with more volume, so that tempts me even further to leave them be in the front doors to help keep the soundstage wide. Before with the Infinities, because of their lower volume, at times I could pinpoint high notes coming moreso from the door speakers. I think the Faitals have alleviated this since they are a bit louder, and more detailed in the highs. As far as the rear roof... I swapped those out on my 2019 and didn't notice a difference up front whatsoever. Not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze on that one. But if you happen to swap them and report otherwise, maybe I'll give it a shot again.

I will be replacing all 9 speakers with Kicker KS series. And will be running 3 amps and completely bypassing the factory amp altogether. Im tossing the factory sub (will be for sale) and replacing it with an enclosed ported sub box custom made to fit directly behind me firing 2 Fosgate Comp R 12" woofers straight down. Tomorrow is the big day. If your use to factory equipment a the power to you. Butvreplacung factory speakers with the speakers you mentioned is not doing them any favors. In My opinion, simply adding a small inexpensive amplifier wi bring those speakers to life and really show you how they can sound. When Im done tomorrow turning anything on this truck past say 20 will make your nose bleed. However loud is NOT what I'm going for. Happens to simply be a bi product. But hearing music in its most pure form is the ticket. The entire system Im installing jn this truck including amp kits, and the custom box is going to come out juuuust under 2k. As amount Im always willing to pay. A truck this sexy needs to have a system to go along wirh the Flowmaster so she is seen. I will send a picture of the box.

 

[IBEW11SPARKY]

You don't really need the control knob on the PAC... other than to use temporarily to set the minimum volume level, then you are done with it. If you use the optical output, then set the minimum volume fully open, all the way up. And you will also need to increase the trim level on the subwoofer output in TuN. I set it at +12, and then just use the 205 to control the bass I want. Right now, crossing it over at 50Hz with a 24dB filter. I am going to experiment with this after installing my HAT speakers in the front doors, but that's typically what I like to do to keep the sub truly transparent.

Thanks for your help Sonnie. I look forward to your updates. I’m just gonna follow your lead brother. It’s obvious you know what you are doing. Just don’t bankrupt me. Lol

 

[Sonnie]

Im new here but confused. I own a 2020 1500 Lonestar with the same Alpine 505watt weak system in it. Everything Im finding rates the factory dash speakers at 2 ohm. Not 4. Whats the difference? I had a 15 with the same Alpine system in it and in my opinion sounded better factory. Matters not its getting gutted as we speak. As soon as I figure out how to remove these door panels. This truck is getting a serious audio makeover.

I have the HK system, not the Alpine. The Alpine dash speakers may be 2 ohm. If you have a volt/ohm meter, you can test the speaker and see what it measures.

Thanks for your help Sonnie. I look forward to your updates. I’m just gonna follow your lead brother. It’s obvious you know what you are doing. Just don’t bankrupt me. Lol

lol... If I don't stop I may get there first.

These are what I installed today. I made mounting plates for them so that I could completely seal them off from underneath.

HAT Legatia X3-P

 

[Sonnie]

So... now I have 3 FaitalPRO speakers for sale... tab already removed on the side that goes to the window for the left and right corners. $85 shipped.



along with a pair of CDT 6x9 speakers as well... no pic right now, but the look brand new... $85 shipped.

I also installed these Unity 6x9's in the front doors today. Had to cut out about 1/8" all the way around... same as in my previous RAM. Easily done with a small drum sander in a Dremel.



Then I added a bead of raw butyl rubber to seal it good...


Then I dampened the enclosure to give it some more rigidity and prevent the plastic housing from vibrating as much as possible.


Still waiting on the miniDSP. Got all the speaker wires connected and run to the back, along with breakers and fuses changed out/added, etc.

Hoping to get the amp installed tomorrow, and everything hooked up, with the exception of the miniDSP, as it may be a couple more days before I see it.

Why 6x9's in the door... why not use 6.5" speakers? Here's why... these doors are designed better for 6x9 speakers, and a 6x9 oval speaker is equivalent to an 8" round speaker. The 6x9 will produce more bass than a 6.5". Yes, I'm using a subwoofer, however, I want as much bass up front as possible, and I'd like to crossover my door speakers at 60Hz, not the traditional 80Hz, and it would be difficult to find a shallow mount 6.5" with the Fs parameter that the 6x9 has, which will enable a cleaner response down to 60Hz. The subwoofer is only going to handle up to 45Hz, although with the boost in SPL on the sub, it will be more like 60Hz. Bottomline... in my opinion and in my experience, a 6.5" speaker isn't going to sound as good as a 6x9. The 6x9 is going to be superior in many ways, most importantly to assist in getting the bass more up front where it should be.

 

[Greenchevette]

Stock wiring or fresh runs? Any lessons learned with grommet etc?

BEAUTIFUL components btw.