2020 RAM Laramie 4WD Audio System Build w/ 12" Display and JL Audio Stealthbox

392DCGC

Well-Known Member
Messages
319
Reaction score
180
Points
43
Measured from my iPhone 11 Pro in MLP. Not sure how accurate, but the graph seems pretty telling to what my ears hear. When I measured my home theater system with Audyssey set to reference, the graph looked excellent. The changes I make with the EQ in the truck immediately reflect in follow-up tests on this graph as well.

Stock
66E2D0E9-27A4-4F4E-AFFE-0DDF14EDAC9E.png

Infinity (Dash) & PAC/Kicker amp hooked to stock subwoofer - Bass +5, Mids +4, Treble +1
734BC5B7-F7AC-44B7-9026-B11E7BE6D744.png


FaitalPRO (Dash) & PAC/Kicker/stock sub, now with Poly-Fil, butyl rubber behind the box, & acoustic foam along rear wall - Bass +5
8D1A8B31-1703-476E-B7F9-36D7D394DBC5.png
Kinda looks like the Poly-Fil reduced the sub’s output below 30 Hz.
 

Sonnie

5thGenRams Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
151
Reaction score
71
Points
28
Not bad at all really. If you get a chance to unplug your sub and measure with all EQ bands at 0... then we could compare it to what I measured.

That peak at about 100Hz on the first graph could very well be the boominess I was hearing.
 

392DCGC

Well-Known Member
Messages
319
Reaction score
180
Points
43
Not bad at all really. If you get a chance to unplug your sub and measure with all EQ bands at 0... then we could compare it to what I measured.

That peak at about 100Hz on the first graph could very well be the boominess I was hearing.
Yep, I could easily do that since it's running on the Kicker amp now. I'll give that a try tomorrow hopefully.

So obviously I put the FaitalPROs in my dash today. I think I’m on the same page as you - the Infinity’s are noticeably lacking in the highs even though my graphs don’t show it, but my ears certainly heard it when doing the same fade L/R test with one of each installed. After swapping the whole set, music is brighter than it was before, but not to the point of being harsh (my EQ for treble is set +1). I currently have the mids set +4 to lift up that trough in the 800 Hz-1.7 Khz range. I can post another graph with my EQ settings as well. I ended up using metal snips to get them to fit. Took about 20 seconds per speaker once I figured out exactly how to fit them. I will say the stock mids/tweeters push higher much stronger. Past about 16 Khz, the Faital & Infinity roll off but the stock speaker keeps on truckin'... and now that I mention it, you can see that on my graphs! The aluminum dome tweeters in the stock speakers can push higher with more volume, so that tempts me even further to leave them be in the front doors to help keep the soundstage wide. Before with the Infinities, because of their lower volume, at times I could pinpoint high notes coming moreso from the door speakers. I think the Faitals have alleviated this since they are a bit louder, and more detailed in the highs. As far as the rear roof... I swapped those out on my 2019 and didn't notice a difference up front whatsoever. Not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze on that one. But if you happen to swap them and report otherwise, maybe I'll give it a shot again.
 

Sonnie

5thGenRams Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
151
Reaction score
71
Points
28
If you think about the difference when comparing just one speaker... you hear it, maybe only a slight difference, but then when you replace all three and multiply that difference times three, you hear it even more then.
 

Sonnie

5thGenRams Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
151
Reaction score
71
Points
28
Here we go.... Bass EQ band set at -9... as we have already determined it does not effect the dash speaker since it is high-passed at 300Hz.

The first graph shows response measured at the speaker mounted in the dash. The factory speakers is surprisingly very flat, although at the speaker is not where it matters most.

1593641485724.png


The second graph shows the response with the mic at the head area of the driver's seat... center of where my head would me. This will vary somewhat based on how your seat is adjusted and where your head is located, so this is not the end all of the response you will hear, but it will give you a fairly good idea of the comparison of the speakers.

1593641768794.png

There is approximately 12dB difference between the factory speaker and the Infinity at 2kHz... and a fairly nice trough between 600-2kHz, which is why some of us are noticing such a drastic difference. Again, the factory speaker is the smoothest among the three. I suspect it was designed this way and/or there is EQ applied in the DSP portion of the amp. I suspect the harshness of the factory speaker comes from the bump at 2.7kHz. That area right around 2.5kHz can be shrill, while 4kHz is not near as bad (at least not to me). I did not test it, but if you have the Infinity, you could bump your mid EQ band up to +7 to +9 and get several dB closer to factory, as you'll get about a 3-6dB boost from 400Hz - 3kHz... which is the area most affected above. And you could bump your high EQ band up to +4 to +6 and it would be all that terribly far off altogether.

The area above 13kHz matters not to me, as I have already proven in testing that I can't hear the first thing above 12kHz, and I have to have my ear right up near the speaker to hear 12kHz. Several of us guys tested our hearing (unofficially) during one of our speaker evaluations and none of us could hear much of anything above 11-12kHz at any respectable level.
 

392DCGC

Well-Known Member
Messages
319
Reaction score
180
Points
43
A few more from me. 6x9s are factory with no deadening material applied to the doors. Faitals installed in the dash, mids +4 treble +2, volume set 20 for all.

Subwoofer disconnected, bass +0
7AD42EAE-9E95-4B51-8596-1E7B1CB09DD8.png

Subwoofer disconnected, bass +5
650C4A22-2917-494F-A824-789965FD5CB4.png

My best effort to get a flat curve in the bass response with the subwoofer connected and bass boosted a bit. Reminder again that my factory amp isn’t sending a signal to nor powering the sub - using the PAC for signal & a Kicker amp.
ED955769-CBBE-447F-B010-432147DD7DB6.png

I’m pretty surprised by this. I had thought I remembered the factory sub reaching down audibly to 19 Hz when 100% stock, but that’s not the case with my current setup when I manually input frequencies. The sub and 6x9s lose basically all output below 27 Hz. And the sub doesn’t really seem to be adding much of anything! With a bit of amp gain/crossover tuning, I was able bring up that dip at 125 Hz using the sub, but the sub either introduces a slight dip around 63 Hz that doesn’t exist when only using the 6x9s, or it’s just not capable of outputting as equally at that frequency. Now I’m a bit mad at myself for the effort and cash thinking I needed the factory sub, when that doesn’t seem to be the case. The factory 6x9s are quite strong when you EQ the bass up. I would need to change something in my setup to get the sub to output lower, and I’m not willing to sacrifice any interior storage space, so the factory sub is what I’m left with. Still, I thought I remembered it reaching lower - maybe the PAC or Kicker are rolling off the deep bass sooner than the factory amp did?

I can clearly hear all the way up to 18 KHz from MLP, probably because my ears are still relatively young.
 
Last edited:

Sonnie

5thGenRams Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
151
Reaction score
71
Points
28
Yeah... wait until you get on up in your 50's and have listened to loud music for 30 years... it will start to diminish. Mine started going in my 40's... from listening to extended periods of 140dB+ music in my vehicles. Now I have tinnitus and can't hear much above 10kHz... thankfully I'm not missing all that much.

The factory 6x9's are really good in this vehicle, as you can see. The sub just doesn't do much on its own, other than create some cancellations (standing waves) resulting in frequency irregularities, although probably not that noticeable. However, you can at least make some adjustments to the sub to help help with the response, whereas you can't without out. That response is still not bad for what you are running. I'd say very acceptable actually. I don't think the Kicker would roll off, unless you have a low frequency roll-off adjustment (subsonic filter).
 

392DCGC

Well-Known Member
Messages
319
Reaction score
180
Points
43
Yeah... wait until you get on up in your 50's and have listened to loud music for 30 years... it will start to diminish. Mine started going in my 40's... from listening to extended periods of 140dB+ music in my vehicles. Now I have tinnitus and can't hear much above 10kHz... thankfully I'm not missing all that much.

The factory 6x9's are really good in this vehicle, as you can see. The sub just doesn't do much on its own, other than create some cancellations (standing waves) resulting in frequency irregularities, although probably not that noticeable. However, you can at least make some adjustments to the sub to help help with the response, whereas you can't without out. That response is still not bad for what you are running. I'd say very acceptable actually. I don't think the Kicker would roll off, unless you have a low frequency roll-off adjustment (subsonic filter).
Yeah that’s something I avoid. Your posts saying you push the volume all the way to 30 blows my mind lol. I use my Apple Watch to get dB readings if I think it’s too loud. 99% of the time, I don’t go over 85 dB which is usually around volume level 20 when sourcing from my iPhone. I have tinnitus as well thanks to blasting music through headphones as a kid and the military not teaching me how to properly use hearing protection with firearms when I was younger. I try to take better care of my hearing now.
 

Sonnie

5thGenRams Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
151
Reaction score
71
Points
28
Installed the rear headliner FaitalPRO speakers today, while waiting on my windshield to cool to treat it with Optimum Opti-Glass Coating.

1593745048433.png

I really would like to wire them for rear fill, but I'm afraid I might damage the amp since I would be attempting to bridge those amp channels...

Amp Left+ to Speaker Left+
Speaker Left - to Speaker Right-
Speaker Right+ to Amp Right-

However, no way to add the delay.

At this point, I have wired them out of phase to see if that will help any... probably won't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aai
Top