5th Gen Stock Stereo Upgrade Options?

[rsonedecker]

So there is a TON of great info in this thread, almost too much for my brain to process.

So it seems like my process should include checking the polarity of each stock speaker as I remove it, noting which speaker wire is providing the positive, and wire the new speakers in as such – but my question is that I’m a little unclear on is whether the wiring itself is backwards and even if I check the polarity of the stock speaker, the wiring may have been backwards anyway? How do I confirm that the wiring itself is correct? Is that where speaker pop app comes into use? So I can identify which stock speakers are out of phase before I even break into it to test the wiring polarity?

Also, I read a lot about replacing the rear headliner speakers and some difficulties in having to trim some areas, but didn't see any pics anywhere? Are the grills able to be pulled off, and what does it look like under there?

 

[ksn240]

So there is a TON of great info in this thread, almost too much for my brain to process.

So it seems like my process should include checking the polarity of each stock speaker as I remove it, noting which speaker wire is providing the positive, and wire the new speakers in as such – but my question is that I’m a little unclear on is whether the wiring itself is backwards and even if I check the polarity of the stock speaker, the wiring may have been backwards anyway? How do I confirm that the wiring itself is correct? Is that where speaker pop app comes into use? So I can identify which stock speakers are out of phase before I even break into it to test the wiring polarity?

Also, I read a lot about replacing the rear headliner speakers and some difficulties in having to trim some areas, but didn't see any pics anywhere? Are the grills able to be pulled off, and what does it look like under there?

The factory speakers themselves are out of polarity. Not all of them and it seems to vary from truck to truck. Use the speaker pop app ahead of time that way you know which metra harnesses you will need to reverse.

The rear headliner speakers aren't that bad. The covers are held on by clips in each of the four corners. It takes some force to remove them and you will feel like you are breaking something. Once you get them out they are easy enough to replace. Some speakers wont be a direct fit depending on where the plugs are at on the speaker. I had to make new screw holes in the headliner. Once the grills are back on you would never know anybody messed with them.

 

[rsonedecker]

The factory speakers themselves are out of polarity. Not all of them and it seems to vary from truck to truck. Use the speaker pop app ahead of time that way you know which metra harnesses you will need to reverse.

The rear headliner speakers aren't that bad. The covers are held on by clips in each of the four corners. It takes some force to remove them and you will feel like you are breaking something. Once you get them out they are easy enough to replace. Some speakers wont be a direct fit depending on where the plugs are at on the speaker. I had to make new screw holes in the headliner. Once the grills are back on you would never know anybody messed with them.

So chalk it up to being a Monday as I’m normally more intelligent than I’m about to seem, but there’s still some confusion for me.

When replacing the speakers, is our goal to have all of them in phase (regardless if some of the stock speakers were out of phase)?

I’m just thrown off by the fact that the speakers themselves are out of phase (literally sometimes the left terminal is negative, sometimes its positive as an example?), [and the factory wiring to the speaker is correct] because I would think if that’s true then there is no need to do any testing – just make sure you connect + to + and – to – between the harness (based on wiring diagram) and the new speaker, no? What am I missing – please help me with my mental issue here.

 

[Leadbedr]

Its the wiring that is all over the place.
You need to make sure the + and - coming from the amp are correct.
My dash was right, but both doors were wrong.
Ive seen some that its only one was out of phase, but in every case there was at least one wired wrong.
I have no idea how it comes from the factory sounding correct when they are out of phase.

 

[ksn240]

So chalk it up to being a Monday as I’m normally more intelligent than I’m about to seem, but there’s still some confusion for me.

When replacing the speakers, is our goal to have all of them in phase (regardless if some of the stock speakers were out of phase)?

I’m just thrown off by the fact that the speakers themselves are out of phase (literally sometimes the left terminal is negative, sometimes its positive as an example?), [and the factory wiring to the speaker is correct] because I would think if that’s true then there is no need to do any testing – just make sure you connect + to + and – to – between the harness (based on wiring diagram) and the new speaker, no? What am I missing – please help me with my mental issue here.

Everything is incorrect from the factory. If you use the metra adapters as they come everything will still be out of phase. You can go to your truck right now and test and some will come back in proper phase, some wont. It may be intentional and part of the anc system. It also doesn't let the speaker system sound as good. I have swapped all of my speakers to proper phase as I have switched them out and it sounds much better.

Not sure where the trouble stems from. Could be the wiring diagram being wrong, the factory wiring being crossed and pinned wrong. It doesnt make sense and it isn't consistent from truck to truck. Some trucks will only have a speaker or two out of phase. My truck, everything except the front left dash was out of phase.

 

[rsonedecker]

Its the wiring that is all over the place.
You need to make sure the + and - coming from the amp are correct.
My dash was right, but both doors were wrong.
Ive seen some that its only one was out of phase, but in every case there was at least one wired wrong.
I have no idea how it comes from the factory sounding correct when they are out of phase.

Everything is incorrect from the factory. If you use the metra adapters as they come everything will still be out of phase. You can go to your truck right now and test and some will come back in proper phase, some wont. It may be intentional and part of the anc system. It also doesn't let the speaker system sound as good. I have swapped all of my speakers to proper phase as I have switched them out and it sounds much better.

Not sure where the trouble stems from. Could be the wiring diagram being wrong, the factory wiring being crossed and pinned wrong. It doesnt make sense and it isn't consistent from truck to truck. Some trucks will only have a speaker or two out of phase. My truck, everything except the front left dash was out of phase.

Okay! Now I think I’ve got it. Thanks for elaborating for me!

Has anyone confirmed that ANC still works correctly when all the speakers are brought into “correct” phase?

And is it recommended to disconnect ANC when trying to determine phase (with Speaker POP app, etc)?

 

[SacRebel]

I love all the work going on in this thread! I decided to install the JBL GX302s in the dash (I have the stock 6-speaker setup) and they're definitely much brighter compared to the stock 3.5s...maybe even too bright for me. I'm thinking I probably should've ordered a 4-ohm dash replacement. I haven't changed the door speakers yet so I hope upgrading the rear doors will help balance out the JBLs in the dash.

I was going to order Infinity Kappa 93ix 6x9s for the rear doors but decided to buy the Infinity REF-9632ix 6x9s from a local shop since they were in stock. I had them stick the speaker in the door briefly to check fitment with the window down...ALL GOOD. They're rated at 3 ohms and 94dB sensitivity. I'll have time to install them tomorrow.

I think/hope this will satisfy my desire for a decent yet basic setup. I've been doing a lot of reading on here and chatted quite a bit today with some audio shops about the maestro/DSR1 route. While time-consuming and a little more $$$, the capability is there for great sound options and OEM integration. Keep up the good work everybody!

Just so I understand you right, you replaced the 6 stock speakers but did nothing else? Are you happy with the sound you're now getting?

I feel the stock speakers sound warmer and at times a little muddy. My previous truck had Kicker speakers and they sounded cleaner to me and that's the sound I prefer. So I'm trying to figure out what needs to be replaced and if I'll be happy with just a speaker swap without adding an amp.

 

[ksn240]

Okay! Now I think I’ve got it. Thanks for elaborating for me!

Has anyone confirmed that ANC still works correctly when all the speakers are brought into “correct” phase?

And is it recommended to disconnect ANC when trying to determine phase (with Speaker POP app, etc)?

I haven't had any problems with my ANC. Other members have reported droning noises coming from the ANC after doing speaker swaps, regardless of phase. Keep in mind I also have a Carven catback exhaust so if the droning is minor I would never notice it because the exhuast makes enough noise. That being said, if I do start having problems from the ANC, I will just disconnect it. I like hearing the hemi roar. I plan on adding an aftermarket sub down the road and will likely have to disconnect the ANC at that point regardless.

You do not have to disconnect the ANC to determine speaker phase.

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

Okay! Now I think I’ve got it. Thanks for elaborating for me!

Has anyone confirmed that ANC still works correctly when all the speakers are brought into “correct” phase?

And is it recommended to disconnect ANC when trying to determine phase (with Speaker POP app, etc)?

The 10 Speaker alpine system when wired correctly has no ANC issues after replacing the factory speakers as long as they are wired the same as the stock speakers. This is where semantics comes into play. If by "correct" you mean + to + and - to - and your truck didn't come from the factory wired that way you will have ANC issues guaranteed. The "correct" phase is however the stock speakers are wired from the factory. Originally I installed them per the factory wiring diagram with + to + and - to - and had problems with the ANC system. After correcting everything and matching the new speakers to the original wiring of the factory speakers the ANC system functions normally. Personally I would not use speaker pop or any other "app" to test this. I would physically verify which terminal on the factory speaker is the positive terminal using a 9V battery and make sure whatever color wire is connected to that terminal gets connected to the positive terminal on the replacement speaker. In my case all 4 doors are wired for reverse polarity. The signal wire (+) from the factory amplifier needed to be connected to the ground (-) terminal of the new speaker this required repinning the metra wire harness adapter for all 4 doors. Attached is a color coded diagram of my how my truck was wired your's may be different but probably not.

 

[rsonedecker]

The 10 Speaker alpine system when wired correctly has no ANC issues after replacing the factory speakers as long as they are wired the same as the stock speakers. This is where semantics comes into play. If by "correct" you mean + to + and - to - and your truck didn't come from the factory wired that way you will have ANC issues guaranteed. The "correct" phase is however the stock speakers are wired from the factory. Originally I installed them per the factory wiring diagram with + to + and - to - and had problems with the ANC system. After correcting everything and matching the new speakers to the original wiring of the factory speakers the ANC system functions normally. Personally I would not use speaker pop or any other "app" to test this. I would physically verify which terminal on the factory speaker is the positive terminal using a 9V battery and make sure whatever color wire is connected to that terminal gets connected to the positive terminal on the replacement speaker. In my case all 4 doors are wired for reverse polarity. The signal wire (+) from the factory amplifier needed to be connected to the ground (-) terminal of the new speaker this required repinning the metra wire harness adapter for all 4 doors. Attached is a color coded diagram of my how my truck was wired your's may be different but probably not.

This is interesting, and now I'm a bit perplexed again. By "correct" I meant +to+ and -to-...I'm sure I've read through many posts where people experienced different phase problems with the alpine system (and the HK) (sometimes only one side was out of phase, both sides, front only, etc.) - Maybe I'm incorrect but I swear I read all different accounts. But I would think it would either be consistent across all alpine systems if it was meant to be that way from the factory, and inconsistent if it wasn't meant to be that way from the factory. I also read where people used correct phase (+to+,-to-) and felt it sounded way better, but I believe that was with ANC disabled. Call me still confused.

 

[Billet1500 4x4]

This is interesting, and now I'm a bit perplexed again. By "correct" I meant +to+ and -to-...I'm sure I've read through many posts where people experienced different phase problems with the alpine system (and the HK) (sometimes only one side was out of phase, both sides, front only, etc.) - Maybe I'm incorrect but I swear I read all different accounts. But I would think it would either be consistent across all alpine systems if it was meant to be that way from the factory, and inconsistent if it wasn't meant to be that way from the factory. I also read where people used correct phase (+to+,-to-) and felt it sounded way better, but I believe that was with ANC disabled. Call me still confused.

That's why I don't recommend using an app to check polarity. The amp in the truck functions as a signal processor, meaning what goes in isn't necessarily what comes out no one knows what the amp is doing with the signal as far as phase shift and delay to get the sound how the engineers designed it. What can be physically measured and determined is which terminal on the speaker is + and which is - by using a battery. If your truck doesn't have any ANC issues from the factory and you want it to stay that way make sure the wiring stays the same. If the green wire is on the positive terminal on the factory speaker make sure it's on the positive terminal on the replacement speaker. The last thing you want to do is to get everything put back together drive off down the freeway and get the ANC drone and have to pull off all your door panels to swap speaker connections.

 

[wildh24]

That's why I don't recommend using an app to check polarity. The amp in the truck functions as a signal processor, meaning what goes in isn't necessarily what comes out no one knows what the amp is doing with the signal as far as phase shift and delay to get the sound how the engineers designed it. What can be physically measured and determined is which terminal on the speaker is + and which is - by using a battery. If your truck doesn't have any ANC issues from the factory and you want it to stay that way make sure the wiring stays the same. If the green wire is on the positive terminal on the factory speaker make sure it's on the positive terminal on the replacement speaker. The last thing you want to do is to get everything put back together drive off down the freeway and get the ANC drone and have to pull off all your door panels to swap speaker connections.

So reading through this thread, this is what I would assume as well. I think you're spot on. I have not replaced or done anything with the stock speakers but have put in a different sub and box. I feel the stock speakers in HK 12 are ok. Just ok. I've flirted with replacing them, but would definitely want to keep the ANC working and I'd have to think that the engineers have it wired such that it works to accomplish what they intended. I can't imagine assembly being that bad that the workers and robotics are just randomly slapping speaker inputs on factory speakers. If I were to replace them, I'd just make sure that however it's wired to the existing factory set up, it's matched up with the aftermarket. So if a green color lead goes to + terminal on a factory speaker, I'd make the corresponding Metra adaptor lead terminates on the after market +.

This assumes NO after market amplifier powering things.

Am I the same page as you?

I'm not doing this personally, but has anyone used the PAC Amppro to bypass the factory ANC and DSP altogether? This obviously does not take into account many factory system features and imaging, but if someone wanted to just send a simple signal to aftermarket amps, I would think it's an option and may be a much cleaner way of doing things for a newbie and novice.

 

[rsonedecker]

So reading through this thread, this is what I would assume as well. I think you're spot on. I have not replaced or done anything with the stock speakers but have put in a different sub and box. I feel the stock speakers in HK 12 are ok. Just ok. I've flirted with replacing them, but would definitely want to keep the ANC working and I'd have to think that the engineers have it wired such that it works to accomplish what they intended. I can't imagine assembly being that bad that the workers and robotics are just randomly slapping speaker inputs on factory speakers. If I were to replace them, I'd just make sure that however it's wired to the existing factory set up, it's matched up with the aftermarket. So if a green color lead goes to + terminal on a factory speaker, I'd make the corresponding Metra adaptor lead terminates on the after market +.

This assumes NO after market amplifier powering things.

Am I the same page as you?

I'm not doing this personally, but has anyone used the PAC Amppro to bypass the factory ANC and DSP altogether? This obviously does not take into account many factory system features and imaging, but if someone wanted to just send a simple signal to aftermarket amps, I would think it's an option and may be a much cleaner way of doing things for a newbie and novice.

I totally agree with both of you, and I agree completely with the fact that I can't imagine these trucks are all getting wired incorrectly - but what is not making sense to me is that many people are reporting different wiring phases - within the same system (base, alpine, HK) - sometimes all doors, sometimes only right side, left dash, right dash,...etc. I'm sure you get what I'm getting at, because I can't imagine that each truck is specially wired by hand and intended to be different than the next. I don't see anyone specifically identifying the exact and consistent polarity setup for each system, because in my mind, the trucks with ANC should ALL be wired the same (at least within their respective systems [base, alpine, HK]). That's where my confusion comes from. I almost want to get to the bottom of this myself and feel this strong need to head over to the dealership and hop in a couple trucks and test them all...LOL.

 

[wildh24]

^^^word. I'll go to mine as well. -25 degrees where I'm at today so might not hear back from me. Ever.

That said, it would be interesting to compile a list of polarities given each system.

 

[wildh24]

I love all the work going on in this thread! I decided to install the JBL GX302s in the dash (I have the stock 6-speaker setup) and they're definitely much brighter compared to the stock 3.5s...maybe even too bright for me. I'm thinking I probably should've ordered a 4-ohm dash replacement. I haven't changed the door speakers yet so I hope upgrading the rear doors will help balance out the JBLs in the dash.

I was going to order Infinity Kappa 93ix 6x9s for the rear doors but decided to buy the Infinity REF-9632ix 6x9s from a local shop since they were in stock. I had them stick the speaker in the door briefly to check fitment with the window down...ALL GOOD. They're rated at 3 ohms and 94dB sensitivity. I'll have time to install them tomorrow.

I think/hope this will satisfy my desire for a decent yet basic setup. I've been doing a lot of reading on here and chatted quite a bit today with some audio shops about the maestro/DSR1 route. While time-consuming and a little more $$$, the capability is there for great sound options and OEM integration. Keep up the good work everybody!

I was eyeing the Infinity Ref as well. The reference series in my experience tended to be less "bright" than comparable jbl, but I will say that I have not listened to these exact models. I really like silk tweeters. They sound much more smooth vs the shrill sound of metal and ceramic materials. JL seems to be an option but quite a bit more $$.

Have u put in the infinities? Thoughts?

 

[Leadbedr]

Im thinking the ANC figures out which is + and - and maybe it just doesnt matter how it comes wired from the factory.

 

[wildh24]

Im thinking the ANC figures out which is + and - and maybe it just doesnt matter how it comes wired from the factory.

Yes this could be the case. Or it could be some sort of post assembly calibration system that programs the DSP for each vehicle. Similar to audessy or something like that where a microphone is placed at the driver seat and series of pops and clocks is sent through the system. The software then makes the adjustments and done.

Might explain why the wiring and phase is so different for each vehicle. Just a theory...

Either way, it would seem that if a person wants to run after market speakers off of the factory amplification, you should pay particular attention to how the factory speakers/wires are connected and mimic that set up to the after market speakers.

 

[Rich]

I have a question about the speaker polarity,.

Is the factory speaker wiring connectors mechanically different to be keyed differently for the positive and negative speaker terminals?

Most speakers that I've seen had physically different size connectors on the two speaker terminals or were keyed differently which would prevent easily making an error in connection of the speaker phase during assembly. Is this not the case with the RAM 1500? I'll admit that I haven't looked myself yet as it's too cold to be working on anything without a garage during the winter here in NH.

It's pretty easy to test speaker polarity in case you think they are mislabeled. This is one of the the best methods, but don't try it for tweeters:

 

[rsonedecker]

Yes this could be the case. Or it could be some sort of post assembly calibration system that programs the DSP for each vehicle. Similar to audessy or something like that where a microphone is placed at the driver seat and series of pops and clocks is sent through the system. The software then makes the adjustments and done.

Might explain why the wiring and phase is so different for each vehicle. Just a theory...

Either way, it would seem that if a person wants to run after market speakers off of the factory amplification, you should pay particular attention to how the factory speakers/wires are connected and mimic that set up to the after market speakers.

Find all these theories interesting and keep running around with my own as well. You bring up a good point.

There's just one thing I can't get past, and it's this - if the source of the "adjustments" to phase are at the amp, and the amp is changing the polarity of the wiring, then you would never need to worry about how you wire the speaker at the terminal - positive to positive, negative to negative, and the results should be the same as before - UNLESS the original speakers themselves have reversed terminal polarity. If you are checking the polarity at the speaker and having to reverse the wiring, you are effectively changing the original speaker polarity that the amp was expecting.

My theory is that the speakers themselves are 'sometimes' (internally) wired incorrectly (terminal to voice coil; the terminal polarities are sometimes incorrectly reversed), and then the system is then programmed/flashed to compensate (reverses polarity where needed), and then when we try to replace the speakers following the diagram, we are faced with random phase issues. Which is why when you match the original terminal polarity to the new speaker polarity, everything works.

 

[ksn240]

I have a question about the speaker polarity,.

Is the factory speaker wiring connectors mechanically different to be keyed differently for the positive and negative speaker terminals?

Most speakers that I've seen had physically different size connectors on the two speaker terminals or were keyed differently which would prevent easily making an error in connection of the speaker phase during assembly. Is this not the case with the RAM 1500? I'll admit that I haven't looked myself yet as it's too cold to be working on anything without a garage during the winter here in NH.

It's pretty easy to test speaker polarity in case you think they are mislabeled. This is one of the the best methods, but don't try it for tweeters:

There is no way to tell by looking at the stock speaker. It is one big plug with two pins. You would have to do the battery test to figure which is which.

I have adjusted my metra harnesses to make sure all of my speakers are in correct phase regardless if it matches the factory setup or not. I haven't experienced any adverse effects. That being said, I did this knowing I will be adding a separate subwoofer down the line and will be disabling the ANC when I do.