All of the news articles seem to imply that the new turbo 6 will be the new engine going forward? Think it will replace the Hemi? I am sure it will be strong, but I would miss having a Hemi.
The 5.7l Hemi has used up its "power bumps" (just read the horror that people posted when it didn't get a power bump)
There will be a Hemi available. My opinion is the 5.7 Hemi will continue as the 5.0l Ford has.
But the INLINE 6 (wishing it had a SLANT) will replace both the Pentastar and Hemi as base and upgrade engines.
I think you will see a larger HEMI in the future...to lead the pack.
I would also not call that amazing fuel economy since I get better than that city MPG in my 19 5.7 Ram Rebel.And....my eco Raptor averaged 14.3 city/17 Hwy for 2 years. It was definitely better than the 6.2L Raptor I traded in for it, but I would not call that amazing fuel economy.
With Chrysler’s trademark on the Hemi, you may see a turbo 6 as an option, but I’m guessing they like all the free advertising the, “does that thing have a Hemi,” gets them. Unless of course, they call it a Hemi turbo?
Then, 10 seconds after I post this, I see the patent article on the 6 turbo.
Very well written...could not agree moreI'm gunna concur with this.
I'd love to go longform and really explain the rationales, post the links/videos, and "whys" for some of the following, but I'm crunched on time!
My thoughts on the "Ecoboost" engines
1) Small displacement with turbos, outside of Rally cars, is basically being driven by EPA/Emissions, government.
In many places in europe they have a RoadTax that taxes basically taxes by litre/engine displacement. They had to go smaller. It wasn't driven totally organically via consumer choice.
Then, it was the incredibly high fuel prices over there. If you removed some of those constraints placed on that market via non-market forces, I would be interested to see what they would be offering.
2) Ford has convinced its buyer-base to a near religious degree, that ecoboost anything is the best forever in all ways.
There's a reason they put it in their GT (A $400,000 car with a V6) and the Raptor, their "halo cars". It was so Joe Q Public with his 2.7L V6 ecoboost felt he had the "bestest most modernest technologiest engine". It was super effective. They price it right, they make it standard, it has enough pep off the line, and they have more of them on the lot with incentives ready to go. The take rate has gotten high. Vehicle manufacturers can be very smart with what vehicles they want to push, as well as lease/sales mixture. They do have some control over that, at least Bob Lutz seemed to think so and know so. Once a vehicle gets "over-leased" the secondary market gets killed pretty badly. Protect it like Toyota/Lexus does, and you see its fans jump to the assumption that it must be some super-duper ultra quality as the singular factor to explain that post-lease price. Wrong.
3) The V6 ecoboosts for Ford came out in 2011.
We have 8 years of data. If you look it up, the AVERAGE age of the vehicle on the road is actually 12 years. And that's not "old,", that's Average.
For "wealthy" people, the average is about 9 years, at least as of 2017 that's the number. IMHO, on longevity, I'm not totally sold that the story is finished on small displacement engines in fullsize trucks, trying to do truck things.
3B) Many of the Ford Faithful promised everyone, everyone, (usually in a condescending tone) that the super duty was getting an ecoboost. After all, the small displacement gas turbo engine in THEIR truck was the best at all things, forever and ever. It's better than a big gas engine at everything including reliability, because putting a turbo on a ~7L Diesel engine is TOTALLY the same as a 2.xL v6 (Despite the differences. it's totally the same).
2020, Ford has a 7.3L V8 big gas engine coming out. I wish I could find the darn clip, but a bigwig in the super duty program basically explained that the fuel economy under load - AND RELIABILITY were reasons we weren't getting an ecoboost super duty.
More simply, if the small displacement gas engines with turbos were really better at EVERYTHING, including longevity vs cost, we would be seeing it in the super duty - and not a big lazy gas engine. It's a vehicle class being sold to people for whom downtime means dollars lost. And in that application, "Real truck stuff" along with less down time, ease of maintenance and reliability, for gasoline engines? Big lazy displacement is still king.
Which brings me to 4
4) The 5.7L Hemi to me was a selling point of this Ram. FCA has adapted these engines for use in many vehicles, but the fact stands that the 5.7L Hemi was the go to engine in the 3/4ton Rams for a long time. By numbers heavyduty trucks are some of the longest lasting vehicles on the road, and many of them lived very tough lives, some pulling trailers for every mile of operation. Heavyduty trucks are beautifully over-engineered, and that's across brands. The 5.7L Hemi and 8speed ZF transmission, I would personally put at or near the top of most dependable/reliable half ton power train choices.
I think we will see more small displacement turbo gas engines, again for EPA/CAFE reasons. In order to get people to move to them, they HAVE TO have some benefits, including better numbers on paper, as well as take off speed, as well as being priced lower than the V8 option. I don't think we'll see any power bump of the Hemi to help facilitate this migration. They HAVE to make the more fuel efficient engine the more desirable choice (Like Ford did. Again Ford HAD TO due to the sheer volume of F-150s they sell).
In an ecoboost future, if I'm in the market for a truck again? I might bump up to the heavyduty class, where I assume the big V8s will still live.
I'll want to see the longevity/cost of maintenance data for years and years before I make a jump to the small engine. I personally am not sold yet
I'm gunna concur with this.
I'd love to go longform and really explain the rationales, post the links/videos, and "whys" for some of the following, but I'm crunched on time!
My thoughts on the "Ecoboost" engines
1) Small displacement with turbos, outside of Rally cars, is basically being driven by EPA/Emissions, government.
In many places in europe they have a RoadTax that taxes basically taxes by litre/engine displacement. They had to go smaller. It wasn't driven totally organically via consumer choice.
Then, it was the incredibly high fuel prices over there. If you removed some of those constraints placed on that market via non-market forces, I would be interested to see what they would be offering.
2) Ford has convinced its buyer-base to a near religious degree, that ecoboost anything is the best forever in all ways.
There's a reason they put it in their GT (A $400,000 car with a V6) and the Raptor, their "halo cars". It was so Joe Q Public with his 2.7L V6 ecoboost felt he had the "bestest most modernest technologiest engine". It was super effective. They price it right, they make it standard, it has enough pep off the line, and they have more of them on the lot with incentives ready to go. The take rate has gotten high. Vehicle manufacturers can be very smart with what vehicles they want to push, as well as lease/sales mixture. They do have some control over that, at least Bob Lutz seemed to think so and know so. Once a vehicle gets "over-leased" the secondary market gets killed pretty badly. Protect it like Toyota/Lexus does, and you see its fans jump to the assumption that it must be some super-duper ultra quality as the singular factor to explain that post-lease price. Wrong.
3) The V6 ecoboosts for Ford came out in 2011.
We have 8 years of data. If you look it up, the AVERAGE age of the vehicle on the road is actually 12 years. And that's not "old,", that's Average.
For "wealthy" people, the average is about 9 years, at least as of 2017 that's the number. IMHO, on longevity, I'm not totally sold that the story is finished on small displacement engines in fullsize trucks, trying to do truck things.
3B) Many of the Ford Faithful promised everyone, everyone, (usually in a condescending tone) that the super duty was getting an ecoboost. After all, the small displacement gas turbo engine in THEIR truck was the best at all things, forever and ever. It's better than a big gas engine at everything including reliability, because putting a turbo on a ~7L Diesel engine is TOTALLY the same as a 2.xL v6 (Despite the differences. it's totally the same).
2020, Ford has a 7.3L V8 big gas engine coming out. I wish I could find the darn clip, but a bigwig in the super duty program basically explained that the fuel economy under load - AND RELIABILITY were reasons we weren't getting an ecoboost super duty.
More simply, if the small displacement gas engines with turbos were really better at EVERYTHING, including longevity vs cost, we would be seeing it in the super duty - and not a big lazy gas engine. It's a vehicle class being sold to people for whom downtime means dollars lost. And in that application, "Real truck stuff" along with less down time, ease of maintenance and reliability, for gasoline engines? Big lazy displacement is still king.
Which brings me to 4
4) The 5.7L Hemi to me was a selling point of this Ram. FCA has adapted these engines for use in many vehicles, but the fact stands that the 5.7L Hemi was the go to engine in the 3/4ton Rams for a long time. By numbers heavyduty trucks are some of the longest lasting vehicles on the road, and many of them lived very tough lives, some pulling trailers for every mile of operation. Heavyduty trucks are beautifully over-engineered, and that's across brands. The 5.7L Hemi and 8speed ZF transmission, I would personally put at or near the top of most dependable/reliable half ton power train choices.
I think we will see more small displacement turbo gas engines, again for EPA/CAFE reasons. In order to get people to move to them, they HAVE TO have some benefits, including better numbers on paper, as well as take off speed, as well as being priced lower than the V8 option. I don't think we'll see any power bump of the Hemi to help facilitate this migration. They HAVE to make the more fuel efficient engine the more desirable choice (Like Ford did. Again Ford HAD TO due to the sheer volume of F-150s they sell).
In an ecoboost future, if I'm in the market for a truck again? I might bump up to the heavyduty class, where I assume the big V8s will still live.
I'll want to see the longevity/cost of maintenance data for years and years before I make a jump to the small engine. I personally am not sold yet
Its not about finding a way to put the hemi tag on a 6 cyl engine so much as its about keeping to the standard they set as a Hemi being a V8.Hemi is short for having a hemispherical combustion chamber, right? So, maybe they can make a turbo I-6 and, if the chamber is shaped right, still call it a Hemi?