Towing the new camper

[SnowBlaZR2]

After putting some miles on this trailer, I would say it tows OK, at least compared to how effortlessly the Horizon was. I think the setup is probably fine, but not perfect.

I'm not getting any sway, have plenty of power, and it stops great. But, I'm getting what I could best describe as squirm in the truck.

I've rearranged my cargo and adjusted the WDH. Next time we're at a location long enough, I'll be upgrading to BFG KO2s and adding Timber Grove bags. Also need to hit the scales again to see where I'm at with the latest adjustments.

 

[Idahoktm]

Coeur d'Alene. Last stay in the Horizon.
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Potlatch. First stay in the Terra.
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Harvest Host stay at a winery east of Lewiston.
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That looks like Blackwell Island RV Park in Coeur d'Alene, but hard to tell from your pics. I live just a couple of miles down 95 from there.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

That looks like Blackwell Island RV Park in Coeur d'Alene, but hard to tell from your pics. I live just a couple of miles down 95 from there.

Yep, that's where we were. Probably drove past your house on our way down to Potlatch.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Well, I thought I was settled on the KO2s, but wondering if anyone has thoughts on these two tires?

COOPER DISCOVERER AT3 XLT LT275 /55 R20 120S E1 BSW

BFGOODRICH ALL TERRAIN T/A KO2 LT275 /55 R20 115S D1 BSW

I'm leaning KO2 because I've had them on other trucks before and like their performance off road, but wasn't towing a camper we live in full time with those trucks. I'd like them to be relatively quiet and comfortable unloaded, but getting rid of the "squirm" while I'm towing is the priority.

 

[Bpebler]

Well, I don’t have any experience with the KO’s on my Ram but I wouldn’t put them on again in my 2000 Jeep Cherokee. Didn’t handle wet roads as some other tires & wore very quickly. The KM2’s were a better tire all around even though it’s a mud terrain. Maybe a little noisier but not enough to matter on that vehicle. It might be different with the Ram obviously & with towing.

I did put those Cooper tires on my Silverado but then traded it in for my first Ram January of 21 so I didn’t get to put them to the test. I e heard great things about them all over this forum however. Almost just mounted them on some new 20” wheels I just got but went with the Michelin Defenders again. I do have Cooper STT Pros on my Cherokee now & they’re the best tire out of many I’ve used on that rig so far.

Our in laws just picked up a nice camper last week however & so I may be in the market for some of those Cooper’s to tow it with. Or I could just get a higher load rated Michelin. I have a lot to think about there since I drive about 60k/year for work which is why I stuck with more of a highway rated tire. My father in law has a 2021 Laramie, my brother in law a 2020 Big Horn, & I have a 22 Limited so each one of us is going to have to get more savvy with proper setups to tow campers. But at least they’re all similar vehicles to make comparisons with. I’m the only one with airbags, Hellwig sway bar, & 3.92 gears but that’s about it.

I need to find some threads on here on how to hook up my Jeep to the back of the camper & take it down the road to the off-road park we go to about an hour away.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

Well, we did something...

2023 inTech Terra Oasis Rover

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Nice upgrade, did you keep track of the gas mileage difference?

My Rebel has the Goodyear Duratrak tires, they are too aggressive for what I need, the next set of tires will be more of a all terrain tire, I had installed LT 10 ply Goodyear all terrain adventure with kevlar on my previous Ram, a lot quieter and probably more fuel efficient, they had the severe weather snowflake symbol for the winters up here in Canada. I thought the ride would have been harsh because of the 10 ply but they were not, I put the recommended air pressure for everyday driving and would add extra air when towing heavy or hauling heavy.

Thanks for posting all the pictures of your trips.

I know what you mean with the little room in a small trailer, my wife and I spent almost 7 weeks on an eastern Newfoundland Canada trip this past summer in a 14 1/2 foot Jayco 145RB, I did a few modifications to make it better, I removed the table and sponges (seats/bed), it was surprisingly heavy with the folding legs, I placed (lightweight) poplar boards and a comfortable Endy mattress. There is a sofa to sit and we bought a small aluminum folding table, we usually eat outside on the picnic tables at the campgrounds.

There was 5” at the foot of the mattress so and I made a shelving unit from cedar boards to fit a tv/dvd (screw and wing nut to hold in place)

I made a cedar serving tray/cover for the stovetop to add countertop space, my wife has a Cricut machine, she designs and cuts out sheets to make stickers, so she added it to both sides of the serving tray/cover.

I made a cedar shelving wall unit for the washroom, there was no cabinet in the washroom, only a mirror glued to the wall.

I added 3 shelves to the closet.

I have a sawmill and had cut the cedar and poplar for these upgrades.

We are heading to Florida near St Petersburg in the spring of 2023.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Nice upgrade, did you keep track of the gas mileage difference?

My Rebel has the Goodyear Duratrak tires, they are too aggressive for what I need, the next set of tires will be more of a all terrain tire, I had installed LT 10 ply Goodyear all terrain adventure with kevlar on my previous Ram, a lot quieter and probably more fuel efficient, they had the severe weather snowflake symbol for the winters up here in Canada. I thought the ride would have been harsh because of the 10 ply but they were not, I put the recommended air pressure for everyday driving and would add extra air when towing heavy or hauling heavy.

Thanks for posting all the pictures of your trips.

I know what you mean with the little room in a small trailer, my wife and I spent almost 7 weeks on an eastern Newfoundland Canada trip this past summer in a 14 1/2 foot Jayco 145RB, I did a few modifications to make it better, I removed the table and sponges (seats/bed), it was surprisingly heavy with the folding legs, I placed (lightweight) poplar boards and a comfortable Endy mattress. There is a sofa to sit and we bought a small aluminum folding table, we usually eat outside on the picnic tables at the campgrounds.

There was 5” at the foot of the mattress so and I made a shelving unit from cedar boards to fit a tv/dvd (screw and wing nut to hold in place)

I made a cedar serving tray/cover for the stovetop to add countertop space, my wife has a Cricut machine, she designs and cuts out sheets to make stickers, so she added it to both sides of the serving tray/cover.

I made a cedar shelving wall unit for the washroom, there was no cabinet in the washroom, only a mirror glued to the wall.

I added 3 shelves to the closet.

I have a sawmill and had cut the cedar and poplar for these upgrades.

We are heading to Florida near St Petersburg in the spring of 2023.

I'm not tracking fuel economy too closely, but anecdotally I'd say I'm seeing around a 0.5 mpg drop so far.

Thanks for sharing those pictures. Love seeing all the unique projects folks come up with to create more storage or make their lives easier. I have a couple projects lined up, but probably won't be stopped long enough to get to them until later this year. We travel on the weekends and I work through the week, so generally, my free time is all spent seeing the local areas we're in.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

I'm not tracking fuel economy too closely, but anecdotally I'd say I'm seeing around a 0.5 mpg drop so far.

Thanks for sharing those pictures. Love seeing all the unique projects folks come up with to create more storage or make their lives easier. I have a couple projects lined up, but probably won't be stopped long enough to get to them until later this year. We travel on the weekends and I work through the week, so generally, my free time is all spent seeing the local areas we're in.

I see that both trailers have similar shapes so the aerodynamics will not change much, but your new trailer appears to be wider, if it is you should have added wind resistance. Your combined weight is 3260 lbs heavier so it should be a little harder to get going from a stop but once your going 3260 lbs extra is not extreme, you would feel it more if you were driving on mountain highways.

I was disappointed when I did my first trip with my small trailer, I could really feel a lot of wind drag, my trailer is 7 feet wide, one foot narrower than my 8’X16’ tandem axle enclosed trailer and both trailer weight are very close to the same, 2,300 lbs. (unloaded enclosed) should also mention that my enclosed trailer is not a V nose front, so it’s like pulling a wall, or sail. They both feel almost the same when towing and the enclosed trailer mpg did not change much after being loaded.

I posted these pictures before, you might have seen them, I invented, built and installed a tarp setup to fit between my truck and trailer to eliminate the wind from going downwards between the truck and trailer. You should have seen my prototype, it was made of angle irons, 2x4s, clamps, bungee cords and a cheap tarp. I was so impressed how it eliminated a lot of the wind drag.

Now for the real one I used 1” square aluminum tubing for the frame, aluminum rivets/washers and a trampoline for the tarp for durability, I rolled the tubing to the same curve of the trailer, no holes were drilled into the body of the trailer, it’s bolted to the frame and the tongue, the other aluminum frame is held onto the truck at the hitch, it has springs to allow the frame with tarp to open when turning or if you want to access the tailgate or if you want to unhitch. The front of the tarp system is held onto the truck with wing nuts so the disassembly is simple if you want to disconnect the trailer, the tarp stays with the trailer. A few people asked me what that frame was on my truck when driving around without the trailer, but a lot of people asked me what that contraption was between the truck and trailer. I even added plexiglass at the sides near the taillights and at top to reach the tonneau cover, I wanted to stop the wind from entering as much as possible.
I did have to do some sewing during my 10,600km (6,000miles) trip, it was very windy on Newfoundland Island. The tarp was tearing near the base of the trailer so more secured modifications are required before my next long haul.

If anybody is wondering “patent is pending”

 

[Bpebler]

I see that both trailers have similar shapes so the aerodynamics will not change much, but your new trailer appears to be wider, if it is you should have added wind resistance. Your combined weight is 3260 lbs heavier so it should be a little harder to get going from a stop but once your going 3260 lbs extra is not extreme, you would feel it more if you were driving on mountain highways.

I was disappointed when I did my first trip with my small trailer, I could really feel a lot of wind drag, my trailer is 7 feet wide, one foot narrower than my 8’X16’ tandem axle enclosed trailer and both trailer weight are very close to the same, 2,300 lbs. (unloaded enclosed) should also mention that my enclosed trailer is not a V nose front, so it’s like pulling a wall, or sail. They both feel almost the same when towing and the enclosed trailer mpg did not change much after being loaded.

I posted these pictures before, you might have seen them, I invented, built and installed a tarp setup to fit between my truck and trailer to eliminate the wind from going downwards between the truck and trailer. You should have seen my prototype, it was made of angle irons, 2x4s, clamps, bungee cords and a cheap tarp. I was so impressed how it eliminated a lot of the wind drag.

Now for the real one I used 1” square aluminum tubing for the frame, aluminum rivets/washers and a trampoline for the tarp for durability, I rolled the tubing to the same curve of the trailer, no holes were drilled into the body of the trailer, it’s bolted to the frame and the tongue, the other aluminum frame is held onto the truck at the hitch, it has springs to allow the frame with tarp to open when turning or if you want to access the tailgate or if you want to unhitch. The front of the tarp system is held onto the truck with wing nuts so the disassembly is simple if you want to disconnect the trailer, the tarp stays with the trailer. A few people asked me what that frame was on my truck when driving around without the trailer, but a lot of people asked me what that contraption was between the truck and trailer. I even added plexiglass at the sides near the taillights and at top to reach the tonneau cover, I wanted to stop the wind from entering as much as possible.
I did have to do some sewing during my 10,600km (6,000miles) trip, it was very windy on Newfoundland Island. The tarp was tearing near the base of the trailer so more secured modifications are required before my next long haul.

If anybody is wondering “patent is pending”

That’s an awesome idea & design! Do you need the tarp area to breathe? I might suggest using some 45mil EPDM rubber if you don’t. You’d find it under commercial roofing products & have to purchase from a distributor. I work for one the manufacturing companies that produce this material & would gladly donate some of my leftovers from training, but there would likely be some shipping involved. I drive all over MO/KS/OK for work though if in that area.

One thing that we carry but that I do not have is Reinforced EPDM rubber sheet which would certainly last longer with the amount of movement & wind it would be taking. We also produce white/light gray/tan TPO (Thermopolyolefin) which reflect UV rays more & is also a reinforce sheet - there would be more labor in configuring it likely since some of the transitions get heat welded & fused together, but it’s able to be creased & formed more than EPDM rubber. Just something to think about if your patent ever goes into production. I train contractors in the winter on how to weld these products as well as most of the other products & methods we carry in the industry. Some of these roofs on RV’s & campers often receive some of our coatings products as well. Side note - I’m not a salesman, but used to be an installer & now the inspector/trainer for these Midwest states. Let me know if you’d like to use me for a resource for trial & error measurements & what not if you decide to use a different material like this.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

That’s an awesome idea & design! Do you need the tarp area to breathe? I might suggest using some 45mil EPDM rubber if you don’t. You’d find it under commercial roofing products & have to purchase from a distributor. I work for one the manufacturing companies that produce this material & would gladly donate some of my leftovers from training, but there would likely be some shipping involved. I drive all over MO/KS/OK for work though if in that area.

One thing that we carry but that I do not have is Reinforced EPDM rubber sheet which would certainly last longer with the amount of movement & wind it would be taking. We also produce white/light gray/tan TPO (Thermopolyolefin) which reflect UV rays more & is also a reinforce sheet - there would be more labor in configuring it likely since some of the transitions get heat welded & fused together, but it’s able to be creased & formed more than EPDM rubber. Just something to think about if your patent ever goes into production. I train contractors in the winter on how to weld these products as well as most of the other products & methods we carry in the industry. Some of these roofs on RV’s & campers often receive some of our coatings products as well. Side note - I’m not a salesman, but used to be an installer & now the inspector/trainer for these Midwest states. Let me know if you’d like to use me for a resource for trial & error measurements & what not if you decide to use a different material like this.

Thanks for the reply, the tarp does not have to breathe.

Before attempting to fabricate my invention I had tried to add two air dam spoilers for the truck and trailer, one on the front of the trailer going from frame to the ground and the other on the rear of the truck attached to the hitch going from the bumper to the ground. It had cutouts for the dual exhaust. I had used 1/4” thick rubber belting, I had worked on it most of the day and it looked really good. The idea was to try to eliminate some of the wind from going downwards between the truck and trailer.
I took it for a test run on the highway, both dams flopped around with the airflow, it did not help, I could still feel a lot of wind resistance against the front of the trailer, what was worse is that the rubber had already started to tear at each side, I had cut two small 1” slits to clear the aluminum siding coming below at the edge of the trailer, the rubber has no strength without the canvas reinforcement. Conveyor belting would have been the thing to use. What a disappointment. It would have lasted longer if only I had not cut those two small slits, but it definitely would not last for a 6,000 mile trip.

Thank you for offering the EPDM, it is a good idea, but it also has no reinforcement canvas inside and it might do the same thing, specially after travelling for so many miles.

I do have an idea and will have it done before my trip to Florida near the spring of 2023.

 

[Bpebler]

Thanks for the reply, the tarp does not have to breathe.

Before attempting to fabricate my invention I had tried to add two air dam spoilers for the truck and trailer, one on the front of the trailer going from frame to the ground and the other on the rear of the truck attached to the hitch going from the bumper to the ground. It had cutouts for the dual exhaust. I had used 1/4” thick rubber belting, I had worked on it most of the day and it looked really good. The idea was to try to eliminate some of the wind from going downwards between the truck and trailer.
I took it for a test run on the highway, both dams flopped around with the airflow, it did not help, I could still feel a lot of wind resistance against the front of the trailer, what was worse is that the rubber had already started to tear at each side, I had cut two small 1” slits to clear the aluminum siding coming below at the edge of the trailer, the rubber has no strength without the canvas reinforcement. Conveyor belting would have been the thing to use. What a disappointment. It would have lasted longer if only I had not cut those two small slits, but it definitely would not last for a 6,000 mile trip.

Thank you for offering the EPDM, it is a good idea, but it also has no reinforcement canvas inside and it might do the same thing, specially after travelling for so many miles.

I do have an idea and will have it done before my trip to Florida near the spring of 2023.

They do make a reinforced EPDM rubber as well that has the same scrim in it as the TPO. We approve this for warranties especially in northern climates when they want to mechanically attach the reinforce EPDM with round plates and fasteners since it is approved for a 20 year warranted systems in accordance with wind uplift testing that is performed in Florida. Essentially, they secure the sheet as they would on a roof and then blow over 100 mph winds underneath it and it looks like an old caravan wagon between each row of fasteners. I will look for photos and a link to send when I have time today.

Could you somehow triangulate the thicker rubber you have for the other area you were describing? Similar style shape to those hollow rubber wheel chocks.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

They do make a reinforced EPDM rubber as well that has the same scrim in it as the TPO. We approve this for warranties especially in northern climates when they want to mechanically attach the reinforce EPDM with round plates and fasteners since it is approved for a 20 year warranted systems in accordance with wind uplift testing that is performed in Florida. Essentially, they secure the sheet as they would on a roof and then blow over 100 mph winds underneath it and it looks like an old caravan wagon between each row of fasteners. I will look for photos and a link to send when I have time today.

Could you somehow triangulate the thicker rubber you have for the other area you were describing? Similar style shape to those hollow rubber wheel chocks.

Sure sounds like tuff stuff! I will have to look into that. I could go see a local roofing company and get/order a couple of pieces for the sides, the top of the cover does not whip with the wind and is not wearing out.
I live In Timmins Ontario 8 hours north of Toronto so the shipping would be very costly, thank you for offering to give me some.

I appreciate the time your taking and the helpful ideas.

 

[Bpebler]

Sure sounds like tuff stuff! I will have to look into that. I could go see a local roofing company and get/order a couple of pieces for the sides, the top of the cover does not whip with the wind and is not wearing out.
I live In Timmins Ontario 8 hours north of Toronto so the shipping would be very costly, thank you for offering to give me some.

I appreciate the time your taking and the helpful ideas.

No problem! I like to help & also see others become successful while helping others. Good luck!

 

[Andymax]

Sure sounds like tuff stuff! I will have to look into that. I could go see a local roofing company and get/order a couple of pieces for the sides, the top of the cover does not whip with the wind and is not wearing out.
I live In Timmins Ontario 8 hours north of Toronto so the shipping would be very costly, thank you for offering to give me some.

I appreciate the time your taking and the helpful ideas.

So, maybe I missed it above somewhere, but I'm curious as to the overall MPG effect this contraption makes. Or, did you do this just for stability?

 

[Rebelguy2020]

So, maybe I missed it above somewhere, but I'm curious as to the overall MPG effect this contraption makes. Or, did you do this just for stability?

I kept all my receipts for the entire trip, I also keep track of both trip meters, trip A is reset after every fill up, I wright the distance travelled on the receipts, trip B is set to zero at the beginning of the trip.
I had forgotten to reset the trailer trip to zero, it keeps track whenever the trailer is connected. I figured near 9,800 km towing, and mostly city/scenic driving when not towing

Total Newfoundland Canada trip was 10,600 km (6,625 miles) 14L/100 km or 20 mpg Canadian gallon or 17 US gallon. My truck does 31 mpg Canadian gallon on the highway without towing, so 20 mpg does not sound that good for such a small trailer, but all things considered, city driving, congested stop and go traffic, construction delays, several hours in total of idling in a stand still, it was simply just too hot to just let the windows open and stop the engine, high winds, rain storms, mountain highways and usual speed at 100 kph (63 mph) and sometimes up to 120 kph (75 mph)

I never once felt the truck and trailer sway or feel unstable for the entire trip, the trailer is only 2,500 lbs, under 3,500 lbs loaded. I kept a spare 20 lbs propane tank and an emergency 5 gallon can of diesel (which I never used but came close) screen tent, small bbq and folding chairs in the bed of the truck, and my wife and I in the cab.

I will hopefully remember to reset the trailer trip meter and keep a record of the engine run and idling times at the beginning and the end of my next long trip to Florida near the spring of 2023

 

[Andymax]

I kept all my receipts for the entire trip, I also keep track of both trip meters, trip A is reset after every fill up, I wright the distance travelled on the receipts, trip B is set to zero at the beginning of the trip.
I had forgotten to reset the trailer trip to zero, it keeps track whenever the trailer is connected. I figured near 9,800 km towing, and mostly city/scenic driving when not towing

Total Newfoundland Canada trip was 10,600 km (6,625 miles) 14L/100 km or 20 mpg Canadian gallon or 17 US gallon. My truck does 31 mpg Canadian gallon on the highway without towing, so 20 mpg does not sound that good for such a small trailer, but all things considered, city driving, congested stop and go traffic, construction delays, several hours in total of idling in a stand still, it was simply just too hot to just let the windows open and stop the engine, high winds, rain storms, mountain highways and usual speed at 100 kph (63 mph) and sometimes up to 120 kph (75 mph)

I never once felt the truck and trailer sway or feel unstable for the entire trip, the trailer is only 2,500 lbs, under 3,500 lbs loaded. I kept a spare 20 lbs propane tank and an emergency 5 gallon can of diesel (which I never used but came close) screen tent, small bbq and folding chairs in the bed of the truck, and my wife and I in the cab.

I will hopefully remember to reset the trailer trip meter and keep a record of the engine run and idling times at the beginning and the end of my next long trip to Florida near the spring of 2023

That seems to me like a really good mileage improvement! I used to get 31mpg HWY on my Ecodiesel and when towing it dropped to 14-ish...so 17 is a great number as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Nsleone]

After putting some miles on this trailer, I would say it tows OK, at least compared to how effortlessly the Horizon was. I think the setup is probably fine, but not perfect.

I'm not getting any sway, have plenty of power, and it stops great. But, I'm getting what I could best describe as squirm in the truck.

I've rearranged my cargo and adjusted the WDH. Next time we're at a location long enough, I'll be upgrading to BFG KO2s and adding Timber Grove bags. Also need to hit the scales again to see where I'm at with the latest adjustments.

Are you still running the factory bridgestone tires? The squirm you're feeling is probably from them, they're not XL rated and thus get kinda squishy under load, adding psi would help. I run mine in the low 40's when I tow something, i think max cold pressure is like 44.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Are you still running the factory bridgestone tires? The squirm you're feeling is probably from them, they're not XL rated and thus get kinda squishy under load, adding psi would help. I run mine in the low 40's when I tow something, i think max cold pressure is like 44.

Yep, stock tires. Been filling them to 44 when we tow. They did fine with the last trailer and we aren't much heavier in the truck after moving some things around.

 

[Nsleone]

Yep, stock tires. Been filling them to 44 when we tow. They did fine with the last trailer and we aren't much heavier in the truck after moving some things around.

Maybe its attributed to the overall weight increase then? I'm just guessing its the tires since that seems the most likely cause.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Maybe its attributed to the overall weight increase then? I'm just guessing its the tires since that seems the most likely cause.

I sure hope it's the tires because I've convinced my wife that I need a new set of KO2s...for safety.