Triton63
Active Member
Well that's exciting!
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The wait is over! Best in class torque!
- Thread starter Doc
- Start date
Not as of yesterday... I checked. I think we will hear more next week once production starts.
This is a site used by fleet owners. I think those dates may be when they can project what they will need for the next order cycle. However that is just a guess on my part.
Not sure. I'm in NYC for the week. I plan on stopping by the dealer on Monday.
Biga
Ram Guru
Here's a little sneak peak I saw, I guess driving impressions will be out next week.
did you hear the turbo shutter right at the end ?
E.Hands
Well-Known Member
Any ideas on pricing or MPG?
Just to note, torque is meaningless, only the horsepower counts.
Let me illustrate in two ways:
1) The torque peak is at 1600 rpm, down from 2000 rpm in the previous version. However, when accelerating hard, the engine will swing between 2600rpm and 4000rpm. The old engine had a 4800rpm redline but it shifted way before that with a power peak at 3600 rpm.
The thing that counts is power under the curve, not torque.
2) If given that a car making 260hp at 60mph weighting 5000lb is traveling at 60mph, a person can calculate the rate of acceleration with no other information. No gearing information. No wheel diameter. No torque.
However, if told it was making 380 lb-ft of torque at that speed, without knowing the engine speed, a person would need to know all the gear ratios and wheel diameter. In effect, they would be calculating the horsepower.
The advantages of a diesel stem from regulating engine power by controlling the amount of fuel rather than creating an obstruction limiting the amount of air consumed. It also has a higher compression ratio and the fuel has 30% more energy per unit volume.
The high compression also helps engine braking. Range is dramatically increased requiring fewer fuel stops. That may save more time than going 10mph faster up a hill. When refueling, the diesel pumps are often on islands designed for tractor-trailers making them much easier to maneuver into with a trailer.
The low-pressure mechanical fuel pumps of yesteryear diesels often belched unburned fuel. Now, they operate at nearly 30k psi, are electronically controlled, and use knock sensors for smooth operation. Glow plugs have become dramatically more functional, assisting in combustion throughout operation rather than being a cold start device.
The 395hp V8 is way more powerful. Because of the turbo that will drop a little at higher altitudes, but still is significant. Motor Trend got 6.1s 0-60 and 14.7 sec @ 93.7 mph in the quarter-mile. For the last diesel, the numbers were 9.0s and 16.9@81mph (Car and Driver). TFL was over 1 minute slower on their uphill trailer pull, the engine straining all the way. 20hp won't significantly change that.
Let me illustrate in two ways:
1) The torque peak is at 1600 rpm, down from 2000 rpm in the previous version. However, when accelerating hard, the engine will swing between 2600rpm and 4000rpm. The old engine had a 4800rpm redline but it shifted way before that with a power peak at 3600 rpm.
The thing that counts is power under the curve, not torque.
2) If given that a car making 260hp at 60mph weighting 5000lb is traveling at 60mph, a person can calculate the rate of acceleration with no other information. No gearing information. No wheel diameter. No torque.
However, if told it was making 380 lb-ft of torque at that speed, without knowing the engine speed, a person would need to know all the gear ratios and wheel diameter. In effect, they would be calculating the horsepower.
The advantages of a diesel stem from regulating engine power by controlling the amount of fuel rather than creating an obstruction limiting the amount of air consumed. It also has a higher compression ratio and the fuel has 30% more energy per unit volume.
The high compression also helps engine braking. Range is dramatically increased requiring fewer fuel stops. That may save more time than going 10mph faster up a hill. When refueling, the diesel pumps are often on islands designed for tractor-trailers making them much easier to maneuver into with a trailer.
The low-pressure mechanical fuel pumps of yesteryear diesels often belched unburned fuel. Now, they operate at nearly 30k psi, are electronically controlled, and use knock sensors for smooth operation. Glow plugs have become dramatically more functional, assisting in combustion throughout operation rather than being a cold start device.
The 395hp V8 is way more powerful. Because of the turbo that will drop a little at higher altitudes, but still is significant. Motor Trend got 6.1s 0-60 and 14.7 sec @ 93.7 mph in the quarter-mile. For the last diesel, the numbers were 9.0s and 16.9@81mph (Car and Driver). TFL was over 1 minute slower on their uphill trailer pull, the engine straining all the way. 20hp won't significantly change that.
silver billet
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Not true at all. In the gen 4 trucks, the ED could tow just under what the Hemi could. The ED has 10 lb-ft of torque more than the Hemi, but somewhere around 130 less HP. I think it's clear that the torque is what makes the ED the little monster that it is.
My brother has the ED (gen 4) and I have the Hemi (gen 5). His truck will climb the same hills without downshifting and feels very strong compared to my hemi which is shifting more. Part of that will definitely be rear end differences.
Torque gets you off the line and allows you to pull. HP is more important for "racing" or passing at freeway speeds, and passing on the freeway is where my Hemi will finally feel stronger than my brother's ED, the ED seems to run out of grunt there quicker.
I agree with the rest of your post (diesel simply having more energy per liter etc etc), but drive the ED and Hemi back to back, I think you're realize that the torque spec is very important.
Same thing with the Ford turbos, they produce a lot of torque down low and feel quite strong.
At 20mph, the EcoDiesel with the 3.55 rear is at its 3600rpm power peak, then 240hp now 250hp. The 5.7L Hemi V-8 with the 3.92 is right at its torque peak, 4000rpm, making just under 310hp. I don't have dyno sheets with the hp curves, but I'd imagine the Hemi is matching the diesel around 15mph.
Now try to hold 70mph on a 3%-6% grade towing a 7000+ lb trailer with 60+ sq. ft of front area (my load, a car hauler, weighs 9000 lb and has 70 sq. ft of frontal area). The Hemi can handle it but without a big margin. The EcoDiesel will struggle, probably dropping 5mph-10mph below the target. At least that is my experience with a 300hp Suburban 2500 where the engine was being held right around the power peak by the transmission. It is also what is shown in the TFL video I posted.
Notice in the new TFL video on the EcoDiesel, FCA hasn't let them release a road test yet, but in the picture, they are towing a boat not a box.
However, although unless the driver normally keeps their foot planted to the floor, in street driving without a trailer the diesel will seem fine. The increased range is a very nice thing to have. If they give it the 33gal tank. Last time it had a smaller tank taking away some, but not all, of that advantage.
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silver billet
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Like I said, test drive them both back to back
The ED has peak torque at like 1600 rpm. It comes on fast and hard and stays there. The Hemi has to use twice the RPM to build to peak torque. When it up shifts, it loses power again until it reaches 3500 to 4000 rpm. The ED doesn't feel that power loss between shifts, it just pulls and pulls. So you can feel the power loss and gain with the Hemi as it revs up and down, with my brother's ED the power feels more linear; it comes on and stays on though it begins to drop off at high speeds which is where the Hemi has the advantage.Like I said, test drive them both back to back
That's because it has a declining torque curve. The new engine has about 380 lb-ft at 3600rpm and goes down from there. By 4000rpm or so it has more power at 2600-2900 rpm and so it shifts.
Once the truck has hit 20mph the Hemi has the edge. So if power is your game, the Hemi is your answer.
However, acceleration isn't the only important factor. Having to use the right lane or climbing lane on an incline isn't that big a penalty for the extra range. With the HD, I believe the diesel can get 50% higher mileage, even in the old days, when the 7.3L Ford Powerstroke diesel had 275hp. The new EcoDiesel has about the same hp and nearly the same torque (480 vs 525, both at 1600rpm) as that engine. Now HD pickup diesels have nearly the same hp as big rigs and wouldn't have that problem. Of course, with the Ram 3500 being rated for a 30k lb trailer, they are nearly the size of big rigs.
I'm not worried about the engine, it will be an improvement on the last. However, questions remain on price, the size of the fuel tank (important, if range is the issue), if the filler can fit a full-size diesel nozzle. I'd like to see a test back-to-back with the eTorque Hemi since the mild hybrid will reduce the mileage difference. It would have been nice if there was an eTorque EcoDiesel. Maybe for 2021 or 2022?
You need to go back to school
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