The NEW 5.7L HEMI with eTorque

[392DCGC]

Another benefit of etorque that is rarely brought up is the regenerative brake. My initial readings on RB has shown that it can be very beneficial overtime with brake maintenance repair.

Regenerative braking is great in fully electric vehicles. In a mild hybrid it's probably not worth mentioning. The battery size in the RAM is only 400 wH. That's pitiful, and as a result, you cannot pump much power into it without blowing up the battery. The truck is going to have WAY more potential energy when moving (& slowing down) than can be taken in by the battery, and that's assuming the battery isn't already charged from the engine running.

 

[Biga]

Here is another video explaining how it works and what it does.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

Regenerative braking is great in fully electric vehicles. In a mild hybrid it's probably not worth mentioning. The battery size in the RAM is only 400 wH. That's pitiful, and as a result, you cannot pump much power into it without blowing up the battery. The truck is going to have WAY more potential energy when moving (& slowing down) than can be taken in by the battery, and that's assuming the battery isn't already charged from the engine running.

400 watts per hour is 1,440,000 watts total. That's 48,000 watts for 30 seconds.....which is 64hp for 30 seconds. I doubt the eTourque motor can generate 64 but by it's size, it looks like 15-20hp would be reasonable. Thats a reasonable amount of energy to Regen. Owners have reported a noticeable braking/engine braking sensation so the eTorque system is doing something. The battery has plenty of capacity for a single Regen braking event.

 

[opet]

My dealer told me that FCA is having severe supply chain problems with the eTorque system itself. As a result, I'm currently unable to order a Rebel 12 with the V8 eTorque engine until January (or possibly even later). They said they'd have no trouble getting me one without the eTorque.

Can anyone confirm this info for me? Please and thank you.

 

[SoCal Truck]

Its true on the supply issues.

 

[opet]

Its true on the supply issues.

Ouch! That definitely puts a damper on my mood, as I had been dreaming of a shiny new Rebel 12 for Christmas.

Thank you for the confirmation, though!

 

[john l.]

Been doing some test driving today. Drove a Limited without eTorque and loved the way it drove. Very smooth. Then I drove a Big Horn with eTorque. Obviously more road bumps without the air suspension, but I really didn't care for the feel of the eTorque at all. Although the shudder and noticeability is less on the Ram compared to the F150, it was still pretty present in my mind. But really didn't like the feel around corners at slow speeds when I let off the gas. It almost felt "stalled." Definitely not as smooth feeling. The salesman said that what I'm feeling is the regenerative braking (although i wasn't actually hitting the break). Said it does that at low speeds when not on the gas and that all hybrid vehicles do that same thing.

So I picked back up the Limited and drove back to my house to let my wife drive for a bit. Again, way better feel for me. So I know you can turn it off, but I'm considering ordering one without the eTorque entirely. I don't tow so I'm not really concerned about the whole low end torque improvement. I actually only put about 7K miles per year on my current vehicle, so don't really think I'll see the modest gas mpg improvement, even if I kept it turned on. But if I'm turning it off most times anyway, no real point in paying for something I don't like.

Off to let my wife drive this. Fingers crossed as this is the actual hurdle..

You just have to get used to a little more "engine braking"

 

[john l.]

You know Ram is not giving away the batteries so they have to cost less than $800. This is a slightly different chemistry but properly formulated Li-Ion batteries can be obtained with a 3 year warranty so I see no issue with the eTorque battery having the same.

I am expecting some issues down the road with the interpretation of "power train." I can see the argument that the battery is not part, but there's no way Ram can claim that the motor/generator is not part of the power train.

In my mind the battery replacement cost pain is inversely proportional to the amount of grin eTorque adds to takeoff throttle - unknown at this point.

Battery packs are rebuildable and cheap to purchase from non-OE sources. I don't see the battery pak as much of a liability.

 

[john l.]

Wonder why they didn't cool the Hemi with coolant like the Pentastar rather than air cooled.

location location location. I bet it gets good air flo up on top of the motor,

 

[john l.]

I did, this is from Chad Myers from Myers Chrysler in Bellevue Ohio and here is the picture for the E torque

View attachment 1117

Magnetti Millini or Milli Vanilli?

 

[Edwards]

location location location. I bet it gets good air flo up on top of the motor,

That and the fact that the V6 implementation is backwards from the V8 thus poor cooling.

 

[john l.]

Impossible with a 2.7 Ecoboost...rated at 17/23. My lifetime average was 17.8 and I drive a lot of highway miles.

My 2.7T F150 hit 19.5MPG avg. According to the computer in the truck. Maybe I should have kept it.

Mostly Hwy miles 70-75MPH.

 

[john l.]

That and the fact that the V6 implementation is backwards from the V8 thus poor cooling.

Kinda like old Maseratis where the alternator would be backwards. Thats Italian!

 

[dutchman187]

You just have to get used to a little more "engine braking"

Haha. I'm perfectly happy not getting used to it. Love the overall feel of mine without the etorque. But clearly a personal preference.

 

[john l.]

Haha. I'm perfectly happy not getting used to it. Love the overall feel of mine without the etorque. But clearly a personal preference.

The new Nissan Leaf has so much braking that some can drive it with one pedal.

Nissan? Git a rope!

 

[rvsixer]

The new Nissan Leaf has so much braking that some can drive it with one pedal.

Most all BEV's are this way (and the amount of regen is usually adjustable to suit).

 

[19llhpb]

You just have to get used to a little more "engine braking"

Completely agree. I actually like the engine braking. Reminds me of my 2010 Ram diesel which I always had the engine brake on.

 

[go-ram]

400 watts per hour is 1,440,000 watts total. That's 48,000 watts for 30 seconds.....which is 64hp for 30 seconds. I doubt the eTourque motor can generate 64 but by it's size, it looks like 15-20hp would be reasonable. Thats a reasonable amount of energy to Regen. Owners have reported a noticeable braking/engine braking sensation so the eTorque system is doing something. The battery has plenty of capacity for a single Regen braking event.

I'm a little confused by your calculations. I think it's not "watts per hour", rather it's "watt-hours" (i.e. watts times hours, more carefully written as watt*hours), and 400 watt-hours (=0.4 kWh) is a very small capacity compared to the kinetic energy of a moving 5,000 pound truck. And they will never give the user the full 400 W*h, they only give a small portion of that, in order to protect the battery itself for a long life (they have to warrant those batteries for at least 100,000 miles, I believe - but check on that for your state).

Another point of comparison, the first popular generation of Prius in the US had a 1.6 kWh hybrid battery, with a much larger electric motor than the 2019 Ram eTorque system, and the Prius electric motor tops out at 67 HP. I don't think it's possible that the 2019 Ram eTorque can generate 64 HP, and even if it could, there is no way the belt-drive it has could transmit 64 HP (maybe 15 HP at most, for a very short burst).

The previous generation Prius has a 1.6 kWh battery, roughly four times the size of the one in the 2019 Ram 1500, and I can tell you from personal experience, that 1.6 kWh battery is miniscule in terms of energy storage capacity. In a car that weighs 2/3 of the Ram 1500 yet has 4X the hybrid battery capacity, that 1.6 kWh battery is barely enough to run the air conditioner for 10 minutes. On flat ground with ultra-careful acceleration and no climate control running, keeping the speed at 39 MPH or less, that same 1.6 kWh Prius hybrid battery can't even run the vehicle for a full mile. So the 0.4 kWh battery in the 2019 Ram 1500 is designed only to be able to do stop/start, smooth out the transmission shifts, and add it's torque for the first 2 seconds of acceleration from stop. That's it. But it does definitely improve the truck's city fuel economy (mostly via the stop/start feature), and eTorque's regenerative braking will help the brakes last at least a little bit longer, if the truck is driven carefully and with understanding of how the eTorque system actually operates.

The other smart thing that the eTorque does is, however, is that once the hybrid battery is fully charged, the extra electricity generated goes to running the electric engine-cooling fan on a higher speed, which "over-cools" the engine coolant and engine block, so that when the vehicle is idling or under light load later, they slow the big cooling fan down for a bit, saving electrical energy for the fan and thus less drag on the engine's alternator during that time. That's a pretty clever use of "extra energy" once the hybrid battery is topped off, basically converting the kinetic energy of the truck into electrical energy, then converting that excess electrical energy into "reverse thermal energy" (i.e. reducing the thermal energy stored in the engine coolant and block), to save electrical energy, and thus gasoline, later. Hats off to the eTorque engineers, it's a pretty slick, unimposing system, one that helps the truck owner a little bit, but more or less being under the radar, so as to not offend the average truck buyer who hates anything to do with hybrid vehicles.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

I'm a little confused by your calculations. I think it's not "watts per hour", rather it's "watt-hours" (i.e. watts times hours, more carefully written as watt*hours), and 400 watt-hours (=0.4 kWh) is a very small capacity compared to the kinetic energy of a moving 5,000 pound truck. And they will never give the user the full 400 W*h, they only give a small portion of that, in order to protect the battery itself for a long life (the have to warrant those batteries for at least 100,000 miles, I believe - but check on that for your state).

Another point of comparison, the first popular generation of Prius in the US had a 1.6 kWh hybrid battery, with a much larger electric motor than the 2019 Ram eTorque system, and the Prius electric motor tops out at 67 HP. I don't think it's possible that the 2019 Ram eTorque can generate 64 HP, and even if it could, there is no way the belt-drive it has could transmit 64 HP (maybe 15 HP at most, for a very short burst).

The previous generation Prius has a 1.6 kWh battery, roughly four times the size of the one in the 2019 Ram 1500, and I can tell you from personal experience, that 1.6 kWh battery is miniscule in terms of energy storage capacity. In a car that weighs 2/3 of the Ram 1500 yet has 4X the hybrid battery capacity, that 1.6 kWh battery is barely enough to run the air conditioner for 10 minutes. On flat ground with ultra-careful acceleration and no climate control running, that same 1.6 kWh Prius hybrid battery can't even run the vehicle for a full mile. So the 0.4 kWh battery in the 2019 Ram 1500 is designed only to be able to do stop/start, smooth out the transmission shifts, and add it's torque for the first 2 seconds of acceleration from stop. That's it. But it does definitely improve the truck's city fuel economy (mostly via the stop/start feature), and eTorque's regenerative braking will help the brakes last at least a little bit longer, if the truck is driven carefully and with understanding of how the eTorque system actually operates.

The other smart thing that the eTorque does is, however, is that once the hybrid battery is fully charged, the extra electricity generated goes to running the electric engine-cooling fan on a higher speed, which "over-cools" the engine coolant and engine block, so that when the vehicle is idling or under light load later, they slow the big cooling fan down for a bit, saving electrical energy for the fan and thus less drag on the engine's alternator during that time. That's a pretty clever use of "extra energy" once the hybrid battery is topped off, basically converting the kinetic energy of the truck into electrical energy, then converting that excess electrical energy into "reverse thermal energy" (i.e. reducing the thermal energy stored in the engine coolant and block), to save electrical energy, and thus gasoline, later. Hats off to the eTorque engineers, it's a pretty slick, unimposing system, one that helps the truck owner a little bit, but more or less being under the radar, so as to not offend the average truck buyer who hates anything to do with hybrid vehicles.

You may be correct in the watt-hour rating. If so, scratch my comments! To clarify the power available, I'd like to know the max RPM the motor is rated at 130 ft pounds. We know it's rated at less than 20hp. Probably in the 12-16 hp peak range with a low duty cycle. It's definitely enough to move the truck and crank the motor sumultaniously. It is NOT a power or torque enhancer within the normal operating range of the vehicle in motion.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

So 400 watt-hours is a capacity rating of how long a battery can supply a given load. 400 watts can be output for 1 hour. Dependant on the battery's max current rating, the same battery could output 800 watts for 30 min or 1600 watts for 15 min. Doing the math, a 15hp load could be sustained for around 100 seconds.

Any 400 watt-hour ratted battery can ouput 400 watts for 1 hour. Thats 1,440,000 total watts expended. If (and it can't, due to current limiting) the battery where able to discharge in 60 seconds, it could drive a 32 HP motor during that time. We have a 12 to 15 hp motor so with that limit, it looks like its close to 100 seconds.

i could be wrong but my day job for the last 25 years has been as an Automation Engineer. I size drives and motors every day. Could still be wrong though.