The NEW 5.7L HEMI with eTorque

[19llhpb]

I highly doubt it.

The math is actually pretty simple. Even using combined MPG ratings you're not getting but a 10% MPG boost, and remember that was under ideal EPA testing conditions. If you do more highway miles than city miles, your payback is longer. Some simple math and you're looking at a 10 YEAR+ payback for the cost of the eTorque.

Plus, keep in mind that the battery will probably not last 10 years. I can only guess what they are going to want for an OEM replacement. My guess is going to be around $1,000.

Then, what about the longevity of the actual eTorque motor? Motors wear out, and again, I can only imagine what they are going to want for a new one. Keep in mind battery packs are not covered by any extended warranty, even the lifetime. I don't believe anybody has confirmed if the eTorque motor is or not. Both are warranted for 8 years / 80,000 miles, but after that good luck.

So add it all up, and you're paying $1,500 more for your new truck to have a ton more added complexity and parts that are untested failure points, and you're probably NEVER going to even hit break-even on your investment even if it doesn't break down along the way. Oh, and now your truck is going to shut itself off at stop signs as well, which no matter how smooth of a restart is still not as good as just having a running engine ready for your foot to press the accelerator at all times.

Don't get me wrong, as a tech-head I think the idea of eTorque is really cool. I've driven an eTorque truck 3 times now and I think it's a really nice system. However, it makes ZERO economic sense.

Fortunately, my e-torque msrp was only $800 usd more, one of the early ones. I have mentioned before that I originally did not order e-torque. Didn’t want anything to do with it, however, being a tow mirror victim I ordered a second truck, and when I did, only the e-torque was available. Could not opt the standard Hemi at that time so I was forced to get e-torque cause I didn’t want to wait. I was worried rather I would like it or not. Honestly, now at over 7000 miles on the truck I am glad I have it. It was a blessing in disguise. I don’t really give a hoot rather it saves me gas or not, if it does that is just icing on the cake so to speak. I’m sure it is saving some gas as it is in eco mode very often(even though I can’t tell it just by driving, thanks to the added e-torque helping?) and the auto/start stop is far less annoying than I thought it would be. I love the regenerative braking (as my previous truck was a diesel in which I ran the engine brake 100% of the time so I am use to it), also, I remember somewhere on this forum months ago someone mentioning that the e-torque battery backfeeds into the 12volt battery if it gets low. Can this be confirmed? Just wondering because I can leave the accessories on in this truck far longer than any other vehicle I have owned. The others after time will shut down to save battery. For example, while at kid’s practices or whatever we always shut the vehicles off but leave acc on for the radio and to keep other items plugged in. After a half hour or so our ‘17 Expedition will automatically shut down do to ‘battery conservation.’ My Ram has yet to do this. It will go for a long time plus it has more to keep on than our other vehicles even though the 12volt batteries themselves in our vehicles are similar capacity. Maybe just a coincidence. I also believe IMO for what this system is and does it is fairly simple. Fortunately around here, gas was down to $1.92usd today!

 

[go-ram]

Fortunately, my e-torque msrp was only $800usd more, one of the early ones. I have mentioned before that I originally did not order e-torque. Didn’t want anything to do with it, however, being a tow mirror victim I ordered a second truck, and when I did, only the e-torque was available. Could not opt the standard Hemi at that time so I was forced to get e-torque cause I didn’t want to wait. I was worried rather I would like it or not. Honestly, now at over 7000 miles on the truck I am glad I have it. It was a blessing in disguise. I don’t really give a hoot rather it saves me gas or not, if it does that is just icing on the cake so to speak. I’m sure it is saving some gas as it is in eco mode very often(even though I can’t tell it just by driving, thanks to the added e-torque helping?) and the auto/start stop is far less annoying than I thought it would be. I love the regenerative braking (as my previous truck was a diesel in which I ran the engine brake 100% of the time so I am use to it), also, I remember somewhere on this forum months ago someone mentioning that the e-torque battery backfeeds into the 12volt battery if it gets low. Can this be confirmed? Just wondering because I can leave the accessories on in this truck far longer than any other vehicle I have owned. The others after time will shut down to save battery. For example, while at kid’s practices or whatever we always shut the vehicles off but leave acc on for the radio and to keep other items plugged in. After a half hour or so our ‘17 Expedition will automatically shut down do to ‘battery conservation.’ My Ram has yet to do this. It will go for a long time plus it has more to keep on than our other vehicles even though the 12volt batteries themselves in our vehicles are similar. Maybe just a coincidence. I also believe IMO for what this system is and does it is fairly simple. Fortunately around here, gas was down to $1.92usd today!

The Ram eTorque hybrid 48V battery does indeed feed into the 12V system.

The other clever thing Ram engineers did is that if the hybrid battery is full, the eTorque system ups the fan speed on the big engine-cooling radiator fan, effectively "over-cooling" the engine coolant and engine block, so that later at idle, it can save energy by running the engine cooling fan slower until the coolant & engine block warm up above the threshold again, then it ups fan speed to normal. It's a subtle thing, but it's a really clever way to "store" some of the excess electrical energy as "reverse thermal energy" when the hybrid battery gets topped off. In a Prius, once the hybrid battery gets full, that's it, regenerative braking shuts off and the extra energy from the regenerative system just gets dumped (i.e. the car doesn't slow down at all like it does when it is regenerating, it "freewheels" and you have to use more of the friction brakes).

EDIT: If you go to pg 15 of this thread, a post by "Biga" on Aug. 23, 2018, there is a short video explaining eTorque by FCA engineer Brian Spohn, during which he specifically talks about using the 48V hybrid battery to power some of the truck's electrical accessories.

 

[19llhpb]

The Ram eTorque hybrid 48V battery does indeed feed into the 12V system.

The other clever thing Ram engineers did is that if the hybrid battery is full, the eTorque system ups the fan speed on the big engine-cooling radiator fan, effectively "over-cooling" the engine coolant and engine block, so that later at idle, it can save energy by running the engine cooling fan slower until the coolant & engine block warm up above the threshold again, then it ups fan speed to normal. It's a subtle thing, but it's a really clever way to "store" some of the excess electrical energy as "reverse thermal energy" when the hybrid battery gets topped off. In a Prius, once the hybrid battery gets full, that's it, regenerative braking shuts off and the extra energy from the regenerative system just gets dumped (i.e. the car doesn't slow down at all like it does when it is regenerating, it "freewheels" and you have to use more of the friction brakes).

EDIT: If you go to pg 15 of this thread, a post by "Biga" on Aug. 23, 2018, there is a short video explaining eTorque by FCA engineer Brian Spohn, during which he specifically talks about using the 48V hybrid battery to power some of the truck's electrical accessories.

Thanks for the clarification, I knew I had read about all the other cool e-torque advantages somewhere on here. Guess I was just to lazy to go hunting for them! Just wanted to confirm the e-torque helping the 12 volt system. My wife even mentioned it seemed we could run more accessories longer with the engine off. Actually, the Ram has yet to automatically shut down while using our accessories for an extended period of time. This works out great for what we do. I assume it would shut down automatically if needed? Also, I am glad the regenerative braking on the Ram is constant, at least it seems that way to me. IMO it would be kind of a pain not knowing if the vehicle was going to brake regeneratively or free wheel.

 

[go-ram]

Thanks for the clarification, I knew I had read about all the other cool e-torque advantages somewhere on here. Guess I was just to lazy to go hunting for them! Just wanted to confirm the e-torque helping the 12 volt system. My wife even mentioned it seemed we could run more accessories longer with the engine off. Actually, the Ram has yet to automatically shut down while using our accessories for an extended period of time. This works out great for what we do. I assume it would shut down automatically if needed? Also, I am glad the regenerative braking on the Ram is constant, at least it seems that way to me. IMO it would be kind of a pain not knowing if the vehicle was going to brake regeneratively or free wheel.

It's also worth watching this 11-minute video here at 5thgenrams, to learn even more about the subtleties of eTorque operation:
https://5thgenrams.com/community/threads/etorque-6-things-you-probably-didnt-know.3126/ (as posted by "Craftman" on Oct. 23, 2018)

 

[Zeronet]

Looking at the limited data available on Fuelly.com it seems that eTorque saves less than 1mpg on average.

 

[SpeedyV]

Thanks for the clarification, I knew I had read about all the other cool e-torque advantages somewhere on here. Guess I was just to lazy to go hunting for them! Just wanted to confirm the e-torque helping the 12 volt system. My wife even mentioned it seemed we could run more accessories longer with the engine off. Actually, the Ram has yet to automatically shut down while using our accessories for an extended period of time. This works out great for what we do. I assume it would shut down automatically if needed? Also, I am glad the regenerative braking on the Ram is constant, at least it seems that way to me. IMO it would be kind of a pain not knowing if the vehicle was going to brake regeneratively or free wheel.

Think about it...the eTorque BSG takes the place of the alternator, so it HAS to feed the 12V system. It’s the only generator onboard.

 

[SpeedyV]

Looking at the limited data available on Fuelly.com it seems that eTorque saves less than 1mpg on average.

I’m going to guess the data is a little flawed, as most eTorque-equipped trucks are higher-optioned (i.e. heavier) than average.

 

[Zeronet]

I’m going to guess the data is a little flawed, as most eTorque-equipped trucks are higher-optioned (i.e. heavier) than average.

On Fuelly, when I select 5.7 GAS/ELECTRIC and CREW CAB I see that they are all Laramie’s and Limiteds and average 16mpg. So there may be some truth to them being higher optioned.

When I select 5.7 GAS and CREW CAB they are mostly Laramie’s, Longhorns and Limiteds with a few Big Horns and Rebels mixed in. They average 15mpg.

 

[SpeedyV]

On Fuelly, when I select 5.7 GAS/ELECTRIC and CREW CAB I see that they are all Laramie’s and Limiteds and average 16mpg. So there may be some truth to them being higher optioned.

When I select 5.7 GAS and CREW CAB they are mostly Laramie’s, Longhorns and Limiteds with a few Big Horns and Rebels mixed in. They average 15mpg.

And since Fuelly hasn’t accurately matched the options for all sub models, there’s a third category for “V8 gas/electric” (without the “5.7L”) for those of us (such as Longhorns) that don’t have the correct option available. The data is kind of an inconsistent mess until they straighten that out.

 

[Zeronet]

And since Fuelly hasn’t accurately matched the options for all sub models, there’s a third category for “V8 gas/electric” (without the “5.7L”) for those of us (such as Longhorns) that don’t have the correct option available. The data is kind of an inconsistent mess until they straighten that out.

FWIW. When I select V8 GAS/ELECTRIC and CREW CAB the average is also 16mpg. That number is a little skewed by one Big Horn that is averaging 19. Most of the others are low 15s and another is at 14.

When looking at the numbers overall, it looks like the higher trims get lower mileage than the lower trims. Which makes sense. It’s true that the eTorque trucks are generally higher trims.

Alternatively consider that people who buy the eTorque may be more mpg conscious and may drive less aggressively. Just speculation on my part.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

I routinely see AC Brushless Servo motors operate continuously for 15-20 years when applied correctly. Is the Etorque motor applied properly? Probably. Time will tell.

 

[19llhpb]

Think about it...the eTorque BSG takes the place of the alternator, so it HAS to feed the 12V system. It’s the only generator onboard.

Correct, knew it would have to, however, was more impressed over how the 48volt battery could back feed into the 12volt system for longer use of accessories with the engine off. Guess to sum up this advantage of e-torque it obviously allows the truck to basically have more stored electrical energy even when it is off to be used in accessory mode than the single 12volt battery of a non e-torque!

 

[scottahaire]

Why do you guys write novels on here? Go spend time with your families.

Happy holidays

 

[Gman]

Our family celebrates on the day after. ;-)

 

[go-ram]

Why do you guys write novels on here? Go spend time with your families.

Happy holidays

Or for some of us, maybe our families aren't here. Although I appreciate what you're trying to get across, I think all of us on this forum are rational adults that can make our own choices. You rarely, if ever, know the backstory, so it's a little perilous to assume that your circumstances or your way of thinking applies to everyone else.

 

[scottahaire]

Or for some of us, maybe our families aren't here. Although I appreciate what you're trying to get across, I think all of us on this forum are rational adults that can make our own choices. You rarely, if ever, know the backstory, so it's a little perilous to assume that your circumstances or your way of thinking applies to everyone else.

I was not being that serious but thanks for your insight

 

[SpeedyV]

FYI - Fuelly has (finally) added the "5.7L V8 ELECTRIC/GAS" option for the Longhorn!

 

[Brandon_Vickers]

400 watts per hour is 1,440,000 watts total. That's 48,000 watts for 30 seconds.....which is 64hp for 30 seconds. I doubt the eTourque motor can generate 64 but by it's size, it looks like 15-20hp would be reasonable. Thats a reasonable amount of energy to Regen. Owners have reported a noticeable braking/engine braking sensation so the eTorque system is doing something. The battery has plenty of capacity for a single Regen braking event.

FYI, and maybe it was already mentioned, but the video in the link above your post says it provides 16HP in the first 1/2 turn of your tires.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

FYI, and maybe it was already mentioned, but the video in the link above your post says it provides 16HP in the first 1/2 turn of your tires.

Good info. The cool thing about servo motors (and AC motors for that matter) is that they can operate well above their rating for a short period of time. It is not unussual to see a DC Brushless Servo rated at 300% of it's continuous torque. What we don't know is what conditions (duty cycle) the 16hp is rated under. Peak, continuous?

 

[surbrown13]

You just have to get used to a little more "engine braking"

I should’ve researched more in this eTorque issue. I bought my truck with the eTorque, thinking that saving gas sounded great but definitely don’t like the feel of it when braking or slowing down. I know better for next time.