Please post your Tire and Loading sticker

[DavidNJ]

A weight distributing hitch will reduce the tongue weight by 10%-20%. The 10% tongue weight number is pretty arbitrary. In Europe, it is 4% to 7%. One WD hitch manufacturer told me in a phone call that they recommend 4.5%-5.5% after adjustment. That catch is many trailers have the tongue weight baked into the design, a function of the layout (in an RV), tongue length, and trailer axle position. A second factor is a desire to minimize trailer weight far behind the trailer axle which would contribute to instability.

Consider that the real constraint, the only one that is the function of a standard, is the GCWR, the combined truck and trailer weight. The GAWR may be a function of the limits of actual components: tires, springs, and wheels. However, I think even the lowest payload Ram 1500 (is it 1035 or 990?) would have over 1200# remaining rear axle capacity.

It's the 2500 pickups that have it worst. In 2019 they are virtually the same as SRW 3500 pickups except for the rear springs (and in the Ram, the whole rear suspension). However, for driver licensing and other factors, they have a GVWR of under 10,000#. Put a 1000# diesel and its heavy transmission in and the truck can weigh 8000#.

Using data for a 2500 Cummins Megacab, the GCWR is over 25,000#. The rear GAWR is over 6000#. The unloaded rear-wheel loaded weight of the most heavily equipped Limited will just be a few hundred pounds over 3000. If it isn't for commercial use or in Canada (I don't think any state looks at GVWR less than 26k lb for non-commercial use) you can just use the rear axle weight as your guide, providing over 2500#, enough for a mid-size 5th-wheel or large bumper-pull.

 

[Cross88]

A weight distributing hitch will reduce the tongue weight by 10%-20%. The 10% tongue weight number is pretty arbitrary. In Europe, it is 4% to 7%. One WD hitch manufacturer told me in a phone call that they recommend 4.5%-5.5% after adjustment. That catch is many trailers have the tongue weight baked into the design, a function of the layout (in an RV), tongue length, and trailer axle position. A second factor is a desire to minimize trailer weight far behind the trailer axle which would contribute to instability.

Consider that the real constraint, the only one that is the function of a standard, is the GCWR, the combined truck and trailer weight. The GAWR may be a function of the limits of actual components: tires, springs, and wheels. However, I think even the lowest payload Ram 1500 (is it 1035 or 990?) would have over 1200# remaining rear axle capacity.

It's the 2500 pickups that have it worst. In 2019 they are virtually the same as SRW 3500 pickups except for the rear springs (and in the Ram, the whole rear suspension). However, for driver licensing and other factors, they have a GVWR of under 10,000#. Put a 1000# diesel and its heavy transmission in and the truck can weigh 8000#.

Using data for a 2500 Cummins Megacab, the GCWR is over 25,000#. The rear GAWR is over 6000#. The unloaded rear-wheel loaded weight of the most heavily equipped Limited will just be a few hundred pounds over 3000. If it isn't for commercial use or in Canada (I don't think any state looks at GVWR less than 26k lb for non-commercial use) you can just use the rear axle weight as your guide, providing over 2500#, enough for a mid-size 5th-wheel or large bumper-pull.

I’m new to “heavy towing” aka travel trailers, most likely going to purchase in the next 6months or so. Are you saying the posted max payload and gvwr should be “ignored” if I use a wdh, and just mainly focus on gcwr and my rear gawr? I do plan on getting a wdh and some airlift 5k airbags. My main concern is my family’s safety and making the towing experience as smooth as possible. Thanks in advance and pardon the newbie question if I read that all wrong.

 

[W13NY]

Anyone who has Nitto Ridge Grapplers what PSI are you running? Waiting for my 285/60/R20s

 

[DavidNJ]

A weight distributing hitch will reduce the tongue weight by 10%-20%. The 10% tongue weight number is pretty arbitrary. In Europe, it is 4% to 7%. One WD hitch manufacturer told me in a phone call that they recommend 4.5%-5.5% after adjustment. That catch is many trailers have the tongue weight baked into the design, a function of the layout (in an RV), tongue length, and trailer axle position. A second factor is a desire to minimize trailer weight far behind the trailer axle which would contribute to instability.

Consider that the real constraint, the only one that is the function of a standard, is the GCWR, the combined truck and trailer weight. The GAWR may be a function of the limits of actual components: tires, springs, and wheels. However, I think even the lowest payload Ram 1500 (is it 1035 or 990?) would have over 1200# remaining rear axle capacity.

It's the 2500 pickups that have it worst. In 2019 they are virtually the same as SRW 3500 pickups except for the rear springs (and in the Ram, the whole rear suspension). However, for driver licensing and other factors, they have a GVWR of under 10,000#. Put a 1000# diesel and its heavy transmission in and the truck can weigh 8000#.

I’m new to “heavy towing” aka travel trailers, most likely going to purchase in the next 6months or so. Are you saying the posted max payload and gvwr should be “ignored” if I use a wdh, and just mainly focus on gcwr and my rear gawr? I do plan on getting a wdh and some airlift 5k airbags. My main concern is my family’s safety and making the towing experience as smooth as possible. Thanks in advance and pardon the newbie question if I read that all wrong.

"Heavy towing"? There is a spectrum. On an 18-wheeler the steering axle is limited to 12k lb, each of the others to 17k. 80k lb max. Roads have a 102" limit has some people putting wide rims on their duallies have found out. Interstates have a 13'6" height. The Ram 3500 dually with the Cummins HO and 4.10 gears (the Aisen trans has a 5.23 1st gear) has a GCWR of 43k lbs...more than half of an 18-wheeler. Those big loads require a commercial class A license, max trailer is 33,000lb. The rear GAWR is 9750 but will have 5500lb-6000lb of capacity left. Payload is is only 5200-5500. The lightest regular cab adds a little to those numbers. The point is the capacity is large.

But this is a Ram 1500 forum. The numbers are lower. Although a Max Towing 2WD Quadcab 3.92 Hemi has an 18,200 lb GCWR, the other 3.92 Hemis are at 17,000lb. Rear GAWR is 4100lb, depending on 2WD or 4WD GVWR is either 6900 or 7100. The curb weight can be anything from about 5300lb to 6100lb. Net, from a practical standpoint the biggest trailer is going to be around 10,000 lb.

The issues then become around stability. Several factors here. At max GAWR on the Ram 1500 tires, steel springs, and probably wheels are all maxed out. The OE tires, except on the Rebel, where largely chosen for unloaded comfort. Even the all-terrain tires on the ORG and Max Tow are a specific OE tire, not Falken's highly-respected A/T3W, which is used on the is used on the Gladiator Rubicon (even then it is a Load Range C while all the retail models are Load Range E). The air suspension effectively increases the spring rate with changing loads. At some point, using air pressure and ride height sensor readings determine it is overloaded, however, it is unclear what that point is. It is above 4100# though. It would still be possible to add a supplemental air spring to the air suspension since the factory air bag replaces the coil spring and the supplemental air bag (e.g. Timber Grove, Air Lift) replaces the jounce bumper. I don't know of anyone who has done that though.

There are other threads on hitches. I've long advocated the 4-bar linkage hitches from Hensley and ProPride. The knock on them is always the cost and weight, usually about $2500-$3000 and 150#-200# vs. $400-$600 and 80# or lower weight for a typical WD hitch. However, with a $60k truck towing a trailer and cargo worth another $60k, $2500 doesn't seem that much, at least to me.

The key to remember, it is the one-off bad situation that causes the accident. It isn't the sunny Sunday afternoon drive on a straight interstate, it is getting passed by an 18-wheeler on a steep downhill curve with strong winds and rain. So hitch matters. Tires matter. Springs matter. Wheels may matter. Trailer size, sail area, weight distribution all matter. As does the length of the trip, the types of roads traveled, the skill of the driver, etc.

Sidebar: 15 years ago there were 1/2-ton HD pickups and SUVs that had the springs, axles, etc. of 2500s with lower GVWR. At that time, a typical 1/2-ton was around 7000# GVWR. A 3/4-ton 10k lb, again because of the laws and Class 2b classification. The HD 1/2-ton trucks had the 8-lug wheels of the HD trucks, LT tires, multistage leaf springs (they all had leaf springs back then) and a GVWR of 8600#. They are all gone now.

 

[Daniel]

 

[HomlessBound]

Who else has weighed their truck? I'd be interested to see how much padding there is, and also how much of the weight is on the rear axle vs sticker max. We usually run out of rear axle capacity on our current tow vehicle before we hit max payload.

We're trying to get away with a 1500 4x4 CC (debating between bed lengths), Laramie, Diesel, Level 2, Safety, Air suspension, and ram boxes.

 

[AndreiV]

Myself and all mods in signature included.

 

[HomlessBound]

Myself and all mods in signature included.

Looks like a healthy rear axle margin. Now I just have to see how much the diesel and emission boxes rob curb weight.

 

[MrCuervoRacing]

Looks like a healthy rear axle margin. Now I just have to see how much the diesel and emission boxes rob curb weight.

expect in the 400 lb range over the 5.7/

 

[Zeronet]

Looks like a healthy rear axle margin. Now I just have to see how much the diesel and emission boxes rob curb weight.

TFL Truck tested a Tradesman with the eco diesel that had over 2000 payload.

 

[Willwork4truck]

DavidNJ, thanks for concise and accurate information. Your paragraph on the “one off” worst case situation is what people need to be setting up for, not the 90% of the time when its flat, fair weather and no semis. Trouble is, that means a costlier hitch and possibly other mods or (shudders) having to buy a 2500 gasser instead of the so beloved 1500.
The oil and gas, hitch and ”can I tow this” wars are incessant and one will rarely change a readers mind as $$$ and a comfy ride rule over safety and reliability in all too many cases.
I never used a 150/1500 to tow with, always had a 250/2500 or 350/3500 so I can’t side with the half-ton crowd. Yes that was years ago and the rigs back then were spartan. You just didn’t expect all the comforts they have today, and you towed with a rough riding truck cause, well, thats what all but the 6.5’ stepsides were.
Nowadays the F150 forums are full of peeps trying to defend their “I can tow anything with my ecoboost” posts, after all, the Tundra did “pull” the space shuttle, right? https://jalopnik.com/how-a-5-600-pound-toyota-towed-a-292-000-pound-space-sh-5951454
Sorry to derail, this is a post your payload specs thread, duhh...

 

[DavidNJ]

Interestingly, the Jeep off-road forums have similar discussions. There, the discussion is about how strong an axle assembly they need (like an HD pickup, they have live axles front and rear) and how much lift they need for a specific tire size.

The only real issue is payload. And it is also a 2500 pickup issue. In most cases, the only difference between a 2500 and 3500 pickup is the rear springs. They have the same frame, brakes, engines, tires, axles, etc. But the 2500 is designed for class 2b with a 10,000# GVW. A CTD 2500 can end up with less than 2000# payload.

For the Ram 1500 the issues include tires, wheels, and springs. Springs are easy, add an air spring, several are available and can be used even with the air suspension (the supplemental springs replace the jounce rubbers). Tires mean an LT which are usually Load Range E. The issue is wheels. The 6x5.5 hub and wheel are going to max at 2600# in the best case.

And the last big issue is the hitch and tongue weight. Nearly all towing with a 1500 is bumper-pull (Note: I prefer the term tag-along but everyone else says bumper-pull, so bumper-pull it is). The Hensley/ProPride hitches are virtual 5th wheels (in the horizontal plane) and add dramatically to stability.

Tongue weight is misrepresented. There is no basis for the 10% rule and with a WD hitch 10% will become 8% after adjustment anyway. The 10% should be able to be 6% before adjustment, just no hitch/receiver/truck/trailer manufacturer wants to be the first to say the emperor has no clothes in the litigious US environment with its social media canceling. And many/most trailers have the tongue weight baked into their design. Regardless of tongue weight, the weight behind the trailer axle should be minimized.

That said, it should be possible to configure most 1500s to tow a bumper pull with a combined weight up to the GCVW IF the right springs, tires, wheels, hitch, receiver, and trailer tongue weight and weight distribution are used.

And back to my basis, the Ram 1500 with its 4-link rear suspension and optional 4-corner air suspension has far and away the best chassis design of any pickup. Then add unique features like the RamBox and MFT. If they made a version similar to the Suburban 2500 or Silverado 1500HD, both long gone, with 9+ inch ring gears, 8x6.5 hubs, and LT tires (3600lb/wheel potential capacity) it would be ideal. That is SUV and pickup versions. FCA, are you reading this???

Sidebar: Current stability control systems include compensation for trailer sway. It is supposed to be effective. However, some of the WD hitches with added friction to control sway may confuse the stability control rendering it useless. I don't have an answer to whiches hitches have issues with which stability controls, but something that needs to be investigated with a hitch purchase.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Tech definitely can trump "old school" equipment, what with current anti-sway computerized controls, progressive rate springs/coils and the hi-strength alloyed steel in the frames which certainly far exceeds what my (for example) 1977 Chevy 1 ton (9600 GVW) could pull with its anemic 210 hp 400 small block.
Back then most brakes were drum (bigger but drum nonetheless) and the 3 speed tranny just couldn't split the gears like out 8 speeds can. Tires maxed out (usually) at 8 ply (nylon) load range D, but our stick framed trailers didn't have all the weight of multiple slides either.

What we didn't have were 10-12K bumper pulls exceeding 35' being towed by 150/1500's. Almost nobody in their right mind would have even tried it. Recent marketing has done a real number on consumers with their continued pushing up of tow weight limits. The marketers simply don't take into (enough) effect the worst-case scenarios of weather, wind, frontal effect, passing semi's, roadbed conditions and of course, driver (lack of) training. All that has a lot to do with the accidents that these trucks are involved in.

With the exception of raw payload, I would agree that my 15' F150 was a better tow platform than my 77' Chevy 1 ton was. The F150 had more torque, better brakes, anti-spin diff, stability control etc., The RAM, while much criticized for its softer coil springs and reduced payload, is a stable towing platform, within its designed limits. There are "tricks" which can assist the lower payload (not change it, just help the truck deal with it) which are all over the towing threads. Modifications can and do help, but nothing beats a properly set up truck that has the payload rating to handle 100% of the worst load possible. For many, that's a gas (6.4) 2500 as opposed to our (5.7) 1500's, IMHO. But, peeps don't want the HD trucks for their own reasons (price, luxury, features).

 

[JJRamTX]

This thread hits totally on what all of us old guys and gals know. Compared to the trucks and pickups of yesteryear these 2019+ Rams are way more capable and safer than our older trucks were. My Ram overloaded by 2,000 Lbs handles, brakes, accelerates, and rides better and safer than my 1988 1500 did when it was only 600 Lbs overloaded even though the Max payloads are close to the same for both 30 year apart trucks.

 

[Zeronet]

Looks like a healthy rear axle margin. Now I just have to see how much the diesel and emission boxes rob curb weight.

Based on the 2020 towing charts the new eco diesel weighs 140 more than the hemi. But that is partially offset by the diesel having a 100lb higher GVWR for nearly all configurations.

I see from the chart that the 4x4 crew cab configs are rated at 7200 GVWR for the diesel but still 7100 for the hemi. Wonder what change(s) allow that higher rating?

 

[DraKhen99]

Based on the 2020 towing charts the new eco diesel weighs 140 more than the hemi. But that is partially offset by the diesel having a 100lb higher GVWR for nearly all configurations.

I see from the chart that the 4x4 crew cab configs are rated at 7200 GVWR for the diesel but still 7100 for the hemi. Wonder what change(s) allow that higher rating?

Marketing overhead? Someone realized that to win the 1/2-ton diesel wars, they'd have to be super competitive with the payload and towing capacities. The frame can probably be rated to 8,000lbs without an issue, but knowing how some of us use these trucks, they wanted to guarantee some margin of safety.

-John

 

[devildodge]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjALegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0JQJrx4LKbsFeUSz6sOSSQ

[/URL]

If you look at the chart it is all over the place.

With quad 4x2 you get 7200. With crew 4x2 you get 7000.

The axle ratings are the same 3700 and 4100 front to back.

Then the 4x4 gets 3900 and 4100 front to back and the 7200.

Something isn't making sense.

I thought maybe it was with the Dana Super 60...but that isn't the case.

Has anyone noticed anyone who has the big axle yet, I sure haven't

 

[jdefoe0424]

It's probably just a numbers game, bumping to get close to the payload of a Hemi truck...probably something they wish they could do with 2500/3500 too considering the loss in payload with the Cummins.
I do know that the 8k total of GAWR's is a limiting factor in terms of registration fees in some states.

 

[Willwork4truck]

It's probably just a numbers game, bumping to get close to the payload of a Hemi truck...probably something they wish they could do with 2500/3500 too considering the loss in payload with the Cummins.
I do know that the 8k total of GAWR's is a limiting factor in terms of registration fees in some states.

True on the reg fees, some states are quite spendy once you are over a certain # limit, just like the single wheel 1 ton vans and trucks that are derated to 9900 or 9950 just to avoid the 10K commercial DOT mess.
In NY they use the unladen (Curb) weight rule: (See dmv.ny.gov MV114 pdf)

Register a pick-up truck as 'passenger' class vehicles
Can I register my pick-up truck as a 'passenger' class vehicle?
Yes. Your pick-up truck can qualify for passenger class plates if it meets certain conditions, depending on its unladen weight.

• If you have a modified or unmodified pick-up truck with an unladen weightless than 6,001 lbs., then you may register it in the passenger class if it meets the following conditions:
  • the pick-up truck does not have any business advertisements, and
  • the pick-up is used exclusively for non-commercial purposes
• If you have a modified pick-up truck with an unladen weight greater than 6,000 lbs., then you may register it in the passenger class if it meets the following conditions:
  • the pick-up truck does not have any business advertisements and is used exclusively for non-commercial purposes
  • a camper top having one or more side windows completely encloses the truck bed,
  • the pick-up truck has seats, seat fittings, or camping equipment installed in the truck bed ('camping equipment' indicates that you have a bed, a stove, or a refrigerator in the vehicle).

End of copied PDF portion

Our 1500’s are under 6000# curb weight. But the point remains, some states are getting very spendy to plate anything other than grocery getters...

 

[bazbob]

Hi all. I'm a new member and this is my first post.

New truck owner here and I've discovered this forum and thread recently. I picked up a 2020 Limited 1500 with the "Black Appearance" package which includes the 22" gloss black wheels and 285/45R22XL Goodyear Eagle Touring . My options include: Bed Utility, Limited Level 1 pkg, Pano sun roof, 3.92, anit-spin, 5.7 hemi + eTorque, Rambox w/ cargo divider, brake controller, factory Tri–Fold Tonneau Cover (came with appearance pkg) and that beefed up multi-function tailgate and I'm at a depressing 1061 lbs on the yellow loading sticker.

I bought this with the intention for towing a ~6,000 travel trailer that I'm still in the market for buying. Most of the dry hitch weights of the trailers I'm considering ( Lance 24 series) are between 550 and 665 lbs. With just my wife and me and nothing else we're pushing that top 7100 GVWR limit.

If I remove the tonneau and the rambox divider and put them in the back of the trailer I gain back nearly 50 lbs. Moving the truck spare tire to the trailer gives me back another 90 lbs. Now I'm considering at buying a set of lighter wheels/tires. I see on Tire Rack They have a 20"x9" Granite Alloy that's only 25lbs. Looking at most the the 275/55R20 all seasons that fit that tire they are also a at least 5 lbs lighter than the 22" Eagles I have now and have a higher load index to boot (2,892 lbs over the 2,601 lbs on the 22"'s). I haven't weighed the OEM 22x9 wheels yet, but I'm guessing there at least 45 lbs. I can see gaining back another 90 lbs of payload by switching over to the new set of 20"s

Would there be any issues with switching out the 22's for 20's? I'm looking to give me some headroom for keeping it legal and safe with a trailer that conforms.