Leather seats not so leather??

[eaglemike]

It's like Naugahyde. It's not at all real leather. I've done leather carving before, and shared a facility with a company that makes leather goods. I've also owned many real leather products including leather motorcycle racing suits. When it's a coating applied to a mesh fabric backing, it's not real leather. I have first hand knowledge, and know what I'm talking about. Get a piece of leather, real leather, and turn it over. Look for a mesh backing. It's not there.
That's why they call it "Natura" - I still have the hang tag on the back of my seat.
Our Mazda6 has a parchment leather interior. It's superior to the "leather" in my $60K plus list price Ram 1500. The Mazda has over 2X the miles, with zero flaws. We traded in a Mazda3 with leather, 40K miles, zero flaws.

 

[Ellisstrong]

It's like Naugahyde. It's not at all real leather. I've done leather carving before, and shared a facility with a company that makes leather goods. I've also owned many real leather products including leather motorcycle racing suits. When it's a coating applied to a mesh fabric backing, it's not real leather. I have first hand knowledge, and know what I'm talking about. Get a piece of leather, real leather, and turn it over. Look for a mesh backing. It's not there.
That's why they call it "Natura" - I still have the hang tag on the back of my seat.
Our Mazda6 has a parchment leather interior. It's superior to the "leather" in my $60K plus list price Ram 1500. The Mazda has over 2X the miles, with zero flaws. We traded in a Mazda3 with leather, 40K miles, zero flaws.

If this were the case wouldn’t it be way more people with this same issue?

 

[eaglemike]

All the cases so far are the frost and indigo. It's my opinion that a batch got though with thin coating. I'm not the only one here. I've found at least four other cases here, on this forum. It hadn't even occurred to me that others would have the same problem, until I saw it here. I'm pretty sure there are other cases - not every person with a frost/indigo interior is on this forum. My issue showed up before 5K miles. I still have less than 8K miles on the truck.

Also, as I posted above, the client adviser asked me if the leather is peeling when I told him there was a problem, even before I told him exactly what the problem was.

I'm pretty familiar with how issues like this show up. I make my living making aftermarket parts for motorcycles. Some of them are to fix common factory defects or issues. Getting ANY manufacturer to admit there is a common issue that isn't safety related is very difficult. Even when it's a safety issue, most of them still won't admit until they are forced to do so.

 

[JJRamTX]

Well whatever they put on the Indigo Frost it is pretty durable in my truck. I had a Teakwood Scent pod pop and it soaked into my leather seat... Even after over 50 times scrubbing it and the spot fading I haven't got a stress mark or tear in it. I am interested in replacing the seat leather cover and wondered if the $250 listed earlier in this thread is what the dealer charges for the bottom part of the seat or the whole seat and I wonder what the labor will be...

 

[eaglemike]

If I could get mine fixed for $250, I'd do it, and likely sell the truck. I don't want to wonder if FCA is going to honor their warranty in the future. My truck is right around a year old. What happened to a 36 month "bumper to bumper" warranty?

Since I'm not the only one - I think there was a bad batch of material. It's interesting how all of us with the problem are having it in the same area of the seat.

 

[duke2001]

It's like Naugahyde. It's not at all real leather. I've done leather carving before, and shared a facility with a company that makes leather goods. I've also owned many real leather products including leather motorcycle racing suits. When it's a coating applied to a mesh fabric backing, it's not real leather. I have first hand knowledge, and know what I'm talking about. Get a piece of leather, real leather, and turn it over. Look for a mesh backing. It's not there.
That's why they call it "Natura" - I still have the hang tag on the back of my seat.
Our Mazda6 has a parchment leather interior. It's superior to the "leather" in my $60K plus list price Ram 1500. The Mazda has over 2X the miles, with zero flaws. We traded in a Mazda3 with leather, 40K miles, zero flaws.

So what you are saying then is that it is false advertising and that all owners of 2019 RAM trucks should join in a class action suit against FCA and GST Auto. Because, again I attach the tag supplied. Please look at the tag in post number 58 of this thread.

 

[eaglemike]

I have the same tag, exactly. Read it closely. They do not say it's real natural leather. As in cowhide, pigskin, etc. Some parts of the seat might be real leather. Take a close look at the pictures. If you were here, right in front of the seat, I'm confident you would agree with me.
As far as a class action, I'm not saying anything like that. If I could see a sample of all of the various seat covers, especially the back side, then I (and you) would know.
Have you ever handled leather, worked with it?
I'm not sure why people want to argue with me about this. I'm objective about this. As I've said before, I've had many cars with leather seats. The areas in my drivers seat show material failure before 5K miles. Its that simple.

 

[duke2001]

I have the same tag, exactly. Read it closely. They do not say it's real natural leather. As in cowhide, pigskin, etc. Some parts of the seat might be real leather. Take a close look at the pictures. If you were here, right in front of the seat, I'm confident you would agree with me.
As far as a class action, I'm not saying anything like that. If I could see a sample of all of the various seat covers, especially the back side, then I (and you) would know.
Have you ever handled leather, worked with it?
I'm not sure why people want to argue with me about this. I'm objective about this. As I've said before, I've had many cars with leather seats. The areas in my drivers seat show material failure before 5K miles. Its that simple.

First, I own a Limited with Indigo-Frost interior, second I have had my front drivers seat replaced for the same issue (pealing type defect), so, if anything I should be agreeing with you. I bow to your expertise, not a leather expert or even know much about it. However, in addition to the "tag" here is a quote from the GST Auto website, which I assume you have visited "Finally, there is nothing artificial or synthetic produced at GST - only authentic REAL leather! Over time leather has remained as one of the most trusted and valued products across all industries. Long before it was the “right thing to do” leather has been one of the greatest recycleable, eco friendly stories in the world." In your response, you said look at the back of the seat cover and I would know. In the spirit of trying to get to the bottom of this, I went out to my truck and tried to take a cover off one of the head rests, but due to my lack of knowledge, I was unable to take one off. So, I ask you, as a knowledgable leather person, would you please go take a seat bottom or head rest off, take a picture and share with us? And, I do note in your response that you are trying to allude to the possibility that only parts of the seat are real leather and that maybe FCA is stretching the truth in calling the interior(seats leather). Again, not a leather expert, but it all looks the same to me, Front, back, seats, bolsters, headrests.

 

[eaglemike]

I've decided to do what I can to get this fixed at an independent leather upholstery shop. It's going to be expensive due to the contrasting stitching, and overall design of the seat covering. The design of the seat colors are really beautiful.

I can't tell you how disappointed I am. The dealer is a typical dealer, and gives the line "we can't object to their decision." I've never raised my voice to them, or anything like that - even when it took almost an hour for them to get my truck out of the lot after a service recently.

I sold my previous Limited last year before I went into the hospital for more chemo and stem cell transplant, as I didn't know how things would go. I never thought I would have as nice a truck again, but was able to get this one. I've been a very good customer to FCA over the years. I had no problems with the leather on that truck, or any of the previous vehicles. I have no faith in FCA at this time.

I wish you all the very best in your life with your Ram truck.

 

[eaglemike]

First, I own a Limited with Indigo-Frost interior, second I have had my front drivers seat replaced for the same issue (pealing type defect), so, if anything I should be agreeing with you. I bow to your expertise, not a leather expert or even know much about it. However, in addition to the "tag" here is a quote from the GST Auto website, which I assume you have visited "Finally, there is nothing artificial or synthetic produced at GST - only authentic REAL leather! Over time leather has remained as one of the most trusted and valued products across all industries. Long before it was the “right thing to do” leather has been one of the greatest recycleable, eco friendly stories in the world." In your response, you said look at the back of the seat cover and I would know. In the spirit of trying to get to the bottom of this, I went out to my truck and tried to take a cover off one of the head rests, but due to my lack of knowledge, I was unable to take one off. So, I ask you, as a knowledgable leather person, would you please go take a seat bottom or head rest off, take a picture and share with us? And, I do note in your response that you are trying to allude to the possibility that only parts of the seat are real leather and that maybe FCA is stretching the truth in calling the interior(seats leather). Again, not a leather expert, but it all looks the same to me, Front, back, seats, bolsters, headrests.

Sorry, I didn't see this note when I post above. I can't understand why they refuse to honor the warranty.
If and when I get a chance, I'll try get clarity of which parts of the seat are true leather and which are not. I've seen some manufacturers made it clear which parts are real leather and which are not.
I've never ever seen real leather peel like this.
Good luck with your truck!

 

[duke2001]

I've decided to do what I can to get this fixed at an independent leather upholstery shop. It's going to be expensive due to the contrasting stitching, and overall design of the seat covering. The design of the seat colors are really beautiful.

I can't tell you how disappointed I am. The dealer is a typical dealer, and gives the line "we can't object to their decision." I've never raised my voice to them, or anything like that - even when it took almost an hour for them to get my truck out of the lot after a service recently.

I sold my previous Limited last year before I went into the hospital for more chemo and stem cell transplant, as I didn't know how things would go. I never thought I would have as nice a truck again, but was able to get this one. I've been a very good customer to FCA over the years. I had no problems with the leather on that truck, or any of the previous vehicles. I have no faith in FCA at this time.

I wish you all the very best in your life with your Ram truck.

Sorry for your health issues, if you have the option of another dealer, give them a try. My dealer fought hard for me. That is the key in this issue. Best of luck.

 

[iamtheav8r]

Seem

If I could get mine fixed for $250, I'd do it, and likely sell the truck. I don't want to wonder if FCA is going to honor their warranty in the future. My truck is right around a year old. What happened to a 36 month "bumper to bumper" warranty?

Since I'm not the only one - I think there was a bad batch of material. It's interesting how all of us with the problem are having it in the same area of the seat.

Seems like FCA is focused only on beating ford for best selling truck...everything else is forfeit. This strategy won't play well for them.

 

[eaglemike]

I went to a really good upholstery shop here in San Diego, Jim's Auto Upholstery. They have a great reputation, and have done excellent work for me before. (a new top on a Z3M, and repaired leather seats on an older RX7). Their price for the repair isn't horrible, but I'm going to keep it to myself for now.
They confirmed the bolster material is VINYL! Based on the tag on the seatback, and the window sticker, I do think FCA is less than clear telling us material is used for the seat covers. Other parts of the seat cover are leather, but they don't say anything at all about certain parts being leather.
I had a note from RamCares telling me I'm out of luck. My option would be arbitration if I wanted to pursue this.
Just an FYI, so you know it's not just my opinion for the material in my truck.

 

[iamtheav8r]

I went to a really good upholstery shop here in San Diego, Jim's Auto Upholstery. They have a great reputation, and have done excellent work for me before. (a new top on a Z3M, and repaired leather seats on an older RX7). Their price for the repair isn't horrible, but I'm going to keep it to myself for now.
They confirmed the bolster material is VINYL! Based on the tag on the seatback, and the window sticker, I do think FCA is less than clear telling us material is used for the seat covers. Other parts of the seat cover are leather, but they don't say anything at all about certain parts being leather.
I had a note from RamCares telling me I'm out of luck. My option would be arbitration if I wanted to pursue this.
Just an FYI, so you know it's not just my opinion for the material in my truck.

Anyone should have been able to see the bolsters aren't leather...that does suck as 3 different dealerships and 3 different sales people all told me the seats were 100% leather. They didn't just dream that up. It has to have been fed to them by FCA marketing materials.

Ram Cares seems to have the role of watching the forum and pretending to offer help via "another layer of support" whatever that means. Has anyone actually been helped by them? Serious question. I'll admit I'm wrong if people have been assisted by them.

 

[duke2001]

I went to a really good upholstery shop here in San Diego, Jim's Auto Upholstery. They have a great reputation, and have done excellent work for me before. (a new top on a Z3M, and repaired leather seats on an older RX7). Their price for the repair isn't horrible, but I'm going to keep it to myself for now.
They confirmed the bolster material is VINYL! Based on the tag on the seatback, and the window sticker, I do think FCA is less than clear telling us material is used for the seat covers. Other parts of the seat cover are leather, but they don't say anything at all about certain parts being leather.
I had a note from RamCares telling me I'm out of luck. My option would be arbitration if I wanted to pursue this.
Just an FYI, so you know it's not just my opinion for the material in my truck.

That is disappointing to hear. And I would agree with you that it would be misleading on FCA's part.

 

[barr0208]

I went to a really good upholstery shop here in San Diego, Jim's Auto Upholstery. They have a great reputation, and have done excellent work for me before. (a new top on a Z3M, and repaired leather seats on an older RX7). Their price for the repair isn't horrible, but I'm going to keep it to myself for now.
They confirmed the bolster material is VINYL! Based on the tag on the seatback, and the window sticker, I do think FCA is less than clear telling us material is used for the seat covers. Other parts of the seat cover are leather, but they don't say anything at all about certain parts being leather.
I had a note from RamCares telling me I'm out of luck. My option would be arbitration if I wanted to pursue this.
Just an FYI, so you know it's not just my opinion for the material in my truck.

ram does state at least for Laramie and lower the leather part is only on the seating surface and they say the laramie longhorn and up are all leather.

 

[RichT]

out of curiosity, where does that place the rebel 12 'premium leather'?

 

[eaglemike]

ram does state at least for Laramie and lower the leather part is only on the seating surface and they say the laramie longhorn and up are all leather.

Well, mine is a Limited, so it's supposed to be all leather. There is a chance that other colors are all leather, but IMHO it's not likely. They might have purchased the seat covers from the GST Autoleather company. GST might have made a decision to use vinyl, without making it clear to FCA. This would not absolve FCA, IMHO. Based on the hang tag, the window sticker, and other materials, I think FCA is "less than forthcoming" about the materials used. Since they control the design of, and sell the truck, they are responsible. Someone earlier asked about a class action. Can't answer that, but I would not be surprised if some marketing materials get changed after this.
ETA: The bolsters might not be considered seating surfaces, but they sure seem like they should be.

 

[barr0208]

Well, mine is a Limited, so it's supposed to be all leather. There is a chance that other colors are all leather, but IMHO it's not likely. They might have purchased the seat covers from the GST Autoleather company. GST might have made a decision to use vinyl, without making it clear to FCA. This would not absolve FCA, IMHO. Based on the hang tag, the window sticker, and other materials, I think FCA is "less than forthcoming" about the materials used. Since they control the design of, and sell the truck, they are responsible. Someone earlier asked about a class action. Can't answer that, but I would not be surprised if some marketing materials get changed after this.
ETA: The bolsters might not be considered seating surfaces, but they sure seem like they should be.

im not arguring one way or the other if the seats are not leather by testing then I would say a class action is in order and the site says all the seat is leather in the upper levels.

 

[duke2001]

Well, mine is a Limited, so it's supposed to be all leather. There is a chance that other colors are all leather, but IMHO it's not likely. They might have purchased the seat covers from the GST Autoleather company. GST might have made a decision to use vinyl, without making it clear to FCA. This would not absolve FCA, IMHO. Based on the hang tag, the window sticker, and other materials, I think FCA is "less than forthcoming" about the materials used. Since they control the design of, and sell the truck, they are responsible. Someone earlier asked about a class action. Can't answer that, but I would not be surprised if some marketing materials get changed after this.
ETA: The bolsters might not be considered seating surfaces, but they sure seem like they should be.

Can you get your upholstery shop to put it in writing that it is not leather? Also, when they remove or repair the seat, can they give it to you for evidence? If, it is not leather, then FCA should be held accountable, not only for you, but for all who purchased with the understanding that the entire seats were leather.