Is the 2025 "Refresh" going to be enough to boost sales?

[Eighty]

I have no doubt that the changes to the RAM will attract attention, but dropping the Hemi is a bold move. Customers are accustomed to its power. This could be a risk to the market position.

Unless I'm mistaken, the 5.7L Hemi has less power than any of it's V8 competitors. And it's also underpowered as compared to the 3.5L Ecoboost.
The Hurricane will have more power than the 5.7L Hemi (both the SO and the HO).
So I'm not sure I understand your position here. Sound, maybe. But power, I think it's a win.

 

[silver billet]

Unless I'm mistaken, the 5.7L Hemi has less power than any of it's V8 competitors. And it's also underpowered as compared to the 3.5L Ecoboost.

I think the point is, dropping the hemi and not having an updated one or a new v8 design. The hemi is 20 years old, last updated 14 years ago, and its still competitive with engines that were released a few years ago. That's not doing too bad all things considered.

But yes what we're all really asking for is a "better hemi" in whatever form that might mean; a complete redesign, or an update, just anything to make it better is fine with me as long as it's a v8 with more power.

 

[Dewey]

I think the point is, dropping the hemi and not having an updated one or a new v8 design. The hemi is 20 years old, last updated 14 years ago, and its still competitive with engines that were released a few years ago. That's not doing too bad all things considered.

But yes what we're all really asking for is a "better hemi" in whatever form that might mean; a complete redesign, or an update, just anything to make it better is fine with me as long as it's a v8 with more power.

 

[silver billet]

That was a good discussion on the carb emissions of the hemi. I always knew it burned dirty but had no idea it is literally the worst in this area over all other modern v8s.

Still, I don't see how Ram and Dodge survive without a v8 when all their competition has them. Doesn't have to be a hemi, but still a v8.

 

[Dewey]

That was a good discussion on the carb emissions of the hemi. I always knew it burned dirty but had no idea it is literally the worst in this area over all other modern v8s.

Still, I don't see how Ram and Dodge survive without a v8 when all their competition has them. Doesn't have to be a hemi, but still a v8.

I found that interesting as well. Never thought the Hemi was that bad. Quite surprising to see. Especially compared to motors making much more HP.

 

[RedFred]

The truth is the current hemi is ancient. Ram/Dodge had plenty of time to work on improving it or creating a new improved V8.

 

[SpeedyV]

The HEMI is a buttery-smooth, reliable V8. It may be seen as antiquated and inefficient. At just shy of 400 HP, it’s harder to argue that it’s underpowered. Regardless, it has held up well.

To the title of this post: I don’t see anything offensive about the refresh, aside from the taillight design of the electrified trucks, but I also don’t see any compelling reason to trade in my ‘19.

 

[6of36]

Unless I'm mistaken, the 5.7L Hemi has less power than any of it's V8 competitors. And it's also underpowered as compared to the 3.5L Ecoboost.
The Hurricane will have more power than the 5.7L Hemi (both the SO and the HO).
So I'm not sure I understand your position here. Sound, maybe. But power, I think it's a win.

It's not the power, I don't want a turbo. Not a first generation. 90% of Fords first generation turbos blew up. Try and find one now, that doesn't have problems. Ford's second generation turbos weren't much better. I won't buy any new engine that isn't proven at least 5 years. That's why I bought a 24, because you couldn't give me a 25 with a Hurricane. Now I might go for a Ramcharger. It uses the proven Pentastar 6. But I won't buy that, the first year either.

 

[theblet]

They could have definitely made a better, more efficient v8, but chose the turbo path to be more “green”

 

[yankeefan31569]

Bring back the Dakota w
a hemi - option..

 

[Dewey]

Bring back the V10

 

[CalvinC]

90% of Fords first generation turbos blew up. Try and find one now, that doesn't have problems. Ford's second generation turbos weren't much better.

This just isn’t remotely accurate in any way shape or form. Hyperbole maybe? If so we can cut you some slack.

Of all the 3.5 EcoBoost generations, the initial couple years are arguably the most reliable… they were under-stressed and overbuilt. And Ford really had something to prove. Literally billions to be gambled.

Is a turbo one more thing to go wrong? Sure. Like eTorque, or a 12” screen or air suspension.

Does it cost more when it fails?
Yup, just like those other things do vs more conventional options.

Is it more prone to failure than NA?
13 years of sales and millions of engines say not really.
Turbo failure rate for these engines is below the average turbo failure rate for all modern turbo engines.
The Gen 2 EcoBoost problems that do exist are cam phasers, and issue shared with the Coyote.

I’ll join you in harping on a turbo’s lack of character, and the false clams that they get substantially better mpgs, all day any day.

But the EcoBoost reliability chatter fizzled out years ago. I really hope the Hurry-Cane is even more reliable. Look

 

[6of36]

This just isn’t remotely accurate in any way shape or form. Hyperbole maybe? If so we can cut you some slack.

Of all the 3.5 EcoBoost generations, the initial couple years are arguably the most reliable… they were under-stressed and overbuilt. And Ford really had something to prove. Literally billions to be gambled.

Is a turbo one more thing to go wrong? Sure. Like eTorque, or a 12” screen or air suspension.

Does it cost more when it fails?
Yup, just like those other things do vs more conventional options.

Is it more prone to failure than NA?
13 years of sales and millions of engines say not really.
Turbo failure rate for these engines is below the average turbo failure rate for all modern turbo engines.
The Gen 2 EcoBoost problems that do exist are cam phasers, and issue shared with the Coyote.

I’ll join you in harping on a turbo’s lack of character, and the false clams that they get substantially better mpgs, all day any day.

But the EcoBoost reliability chatter fizzled out years ago. I really hope the Hurry-Cane is even more reliable. Look

It's not that the turbos fail, the Ford turbo engines fail.

 

[Biga]

It's not that the turbos fail, the Ford turbo engines fail.

At what mileage? The 5.4 V8's Ford produced where probably much more prone to failure then then ecoboost engines have been.

 

[ChrisID]

That was a good discussion on the carb emissions of the hemi. I always knew it burned dirty but had no idea it is literally the worst in this area over all other modern v8s.

Still, I don't see how Ram and Dodge survive without a v8 when all their competition has them. Doesn't have to be a hemi, but still a v8.

Depends what you define at 'dirty' It appears to be based on CO2 emmissions which smart people in the room will tell you is not 'dirty'. CO2 is not bad as regulators/politicians want you to believe.
BTW, not that it matters but the racerx guys said the 5.7 hemi shows a 3 score but my 20 shows as a 5.

 

[silver billet]

Depends what you define at 'dirty' It appears to be based on CO2 emmissions which smart people in the room will tell you is not 'dirty'. CO2 is not bad as regulators/politicians want you to believe.

It only matters what the people who are driving the legislation think, and by their standards the hemi is absolutely dirty.

 

[uncc_99xj]

It's not that the turbos fail, the Ford turbo engines fail.

Coming from two Ecoboost engines prior to my Ram (3.5 in an 2017 F150 and 2.0 in a 2013 Focus ST), it's not the turbos that are the death of Ford engines, and it's not specifically turbo engines that fail in the Ford line up, it's the OHC nature of their engines instead of the tried and true pushrod design (Hemi and LS). Cam phaser problems date back to the 5.4 Triton V8, and while primarily common in the Ecoboost line up (specifically the 3.5) today, the current truck version of the 5.0 isn't completely immune from them either.

My ST gave me 142K trouble free miles. Outside of normal maintenance (brakes, oil changes, tune up, etc), the only parts I replaced were an oil seal for the cam driven vacuum pump, and the A/C compressor. Both were done within the last 10k I had it. It was hands down the most reliable vehicle i've ever owned, and I was not easy on it. It saw plenty of track time in it's early days. I only sold it because I needed the cash to get into a new truck with the least amount financed in this stupid economy.

My F150 on the other hand was the complete opposite experience. Sold it at 74k and it spent most of it's life in the shop getting warranty repairs. Everything from small stuff like windshield washer pump failure up to the big items like cam phasers, and a near complete rebuilt of the 10-speed.

Both of my Fords I bought brand new and I keep up on vehicle maintenance. Not a bit of turbo trouble out of either one of them.

I'm very intrigued to see how the Hurricane does. I'm glad to see they went the straight 6 route instead of the v6 route. Straight 6's tend to be very reliable.

 

[6of36]

Coming from two Ecoboost engines prior to my Ram (3.5 in an 2017 F150 and 2.0 in a 2013 Focus ST), it's not the turbos that are the death of Ford engines, and it's not specifically turbo engines that fail in the Ford line up, it's the OHC nature of their engines instead of the tried and true pushrod design (Hemi and LS). Cam phaser problems date back to the 5.4 Triton V8, and while primarily common in the Ecoboost line up (specifically the 3.5) today, the current truck version of the 5.0 isn't completely immune from them either.

My ST gave me 142K trouble free miles. Outside of normal maintenance (brakes, oil changes, tune up, etc), the only parts I replaced were an oil seal for the cam driven vacuum pump, and the A/C compressor. Both were done within the last 10k I had it. It was hands down the most reliable vehicle i've ever owned, and I was not easy on it. It saw plenty of track time in it's early days. I only sold it because I needed the cash to get into a new truck with the least amount financed in this stupid economy.

My F150 on the other hand was the complete opposite experience. Sold it at 74k and it spent most of it's life in the shop getting warranty repairs. Everything from small stuff like windshield washer pump failure up to the big items like cam phasers, and a near complete rebuilt of the 10-speed.

Both of my Fords I bought brand new and I keep up on vehicle maintenance. Not a bit of turbo trouble out of either one of them.

I'm very intrigued to see how the Hurricane does. I'm glad to see they went the straight 6 route instead of the v6 route. Straight 6's tend to be very reliable.

At one time I thought about a Ford Flex. Every one with a turbo 6 had a bad engine.

 

[BowDown]

I found that interesting as well. Never thought the Hemi was that bad. Quite surprising to see. Especially compared to motors making much more HP.

It's always been dirty, that's the reason for 2 spark plugs

 

[BowDown]

The only thing that maybe would bother me is the exhaust note.
The hurricane 6 in either trim should be fine and get good mileage unless you're in boost all the time.

I had an ecoboost explorer rental in Houston 2 weeks ago, I beat the dookey out of it. That truck ran good and pulled hard through every gear. 2 days, about 100 miles and it only needed 5 gallons to fill up before turning it in and I was 300 footing that truck at every light.

I think the hurricane will do fine mpg wise in a 1500 truck, those that don't get good mileage now will still likely not get good mileage with the hurricane. Those that get good mileage now will likely continue that with a hurricane powered 1500, it's driving style.