Is the 2025 "Refresh" going to be enough to boost sales?

[SD Rebel]

If they are leading it's only because they finally refreshed thier vehicles. I had a 2015 Silverado went with a 2020 Rebel because the Silverado looked EXACTLY the same as it did in 2015...then got a 2023 Limited because I was in the Ram ecosystem and Chevy wasn't offering anything I wanted to pull me away. Ford and GM made changes that Ram already made. They will swing back there is only some much new tech to go around.

You realize that RAM has never led a full year worth of sales against either GM or Ford?

In 2019, RAM did actually beat the Silverado for 2nd (if not including the Sierra) for the year, but that was it. RAM has always been 3rd in truck sales, and never has it led.

It's not a question of RAM actually outselling GM or Ford, it's how far they are in 3rd, and right now, both Ford and GM have increased their sales over the year while RAM has gone the other way, and I agree, it's because it's the oldest truck on the lot.

 

[Dewey]

The way trucks have gone up in price the last 3-4 years it’s almost at a tipping point. Without any discounts along with higher interest rates many are priced out of the market now and thinking twice about buying a truck.

Big rebates and dealer discounts boost sales. If RAM can continue pre-pandemic discounts while keeping inventory up sales will increase. Especially if GM and Ford are lacking in offering those same discounts and continue with lean inventory.

Problem is with a re-design for 2025 they will likely not offer much for discounts. The big wildcard is eliminating the Hemi. That will turn away a lot of buyers for sure.

My guess is a lot of buyers will pass on that first model year of changes especially with the new motor and wait a year so sales may be down. It’s much different than when the 5th Gens came out with an already proven Hemi.

Gonna be interesting for sure to see how sales go.

 

[SD Rebel]

The way trucks have gone up in price the last 3-4 years it’s almost at a tipping point. Without any discounts along with higher interest rates many are priced out of the market now and thinking twice about buying a truck.

Big rebates and dealer discounts boost sales. If RAM can continue pre-pandemic discounts while keeping inventory up sales will increase. Especially if GM and Ford are lacking in offering those same discounts and continue with lean inventory.

Problem is with a re-design for 2025 they will likely not offer much for discounts. My guess is a lot of buyers will pass on that first model year of changes especially with the new motor and wait a year so sales may be down. It’s much different than when the 5th Gens came out with an already proven Hemi.

True, the normal truck market is packed with large discounts, typically 10% - 25%, I suspect we will back back to that soon, though with still too high interest rates.

Kind of interesting with what is a relatively mild mid-cycle refresh for 2025, except it comes with an all new and more complicated engine that will both cause concern for both people who would prefer a V8 and those who aren't sure how reliable it is. Though all-new in the RAM, at least it has been in running in the Wagoner for the last year or so.

I think it maybe "a wash" when it comes to sales, with people who are both turned off and excited of the 2025, that it will result in no overall increase or decrease in sales.

 

[6of36]

True, the normal truck market is packed with large discounts, typically 10% - 25%, I suspect we will back back to that soon, though with still too high interest rates.

Kind of interesting with what is a relatively mild mid-cycle refresh for 2025, except it comes with an all new and more complicated engine that will both cause concern for both people who would prefer a V8 and those who aren't sure how reliable it is. Though all-new in the RAM, at least it has been in running in the Wagooner for the last year or so.

I think it maybe "a wash" when it comes to sales, with people who are both turned off and excited of the 2025, that it will result in no overall increase or decrease in sales.

I specifically bought my 24, to not get a 25. I don't want a turbo 6. Now that they announced the Ramcharger hybrid, that looks promising, but I wouldn't buy a first year. Maybe 26 or 27.

 

[RedFred]

I specifically bought my 24, to not get a 25. I don't want a turbo 6. Now that they announced the Ramcharger hybrid, that looks promising, but I wouldn't buy a first year. Maybe 26 or 27.

Looks like refreshed 2025 orders will be starting soon. I can't see myself getting a 2025, first year with the turbo 6, either. I'm not sure if I will ever be ok with it. The inline turbo 6 will have to slowly win me over. Will see what happens.

 

[Eighty]

Looks like refreshed 2025 orders will be starting soon. I can't see myself getting a 2025, first year with the turbo 6, either. I'm not sure if I will ever be ok with it. The inline turbo 6 will have to slowly win me over. Will see what happens.

The Hurricane engine has been out for a little while (in a couple of Jeep trims). So it's not really a beta-testing thing anymore.

 

[RedFred]

The Hurricane engine has been out for a little while (in a couple of Jeep trims). So it's not really a beta-testing thing anymore.

Yeah, still not enough for me. Haven't done any research on the Jeep trims to see how they have held up so far. I will either keep looking at 2024's or one of the GM models, or just wait it out. Not sure yet.

 

[SD Rebel]

The refresh is so mild, even most truck fans won't notice from the outside. You can update the looks on your pre-facelist easily, its all bolt on parts. The newer tech seems cool, like the few inside changes, but still want the V8, though open to the I6 if it's a good engine, only time will tell.

So unless you need a new truck, there really isn't a reason to get a 2025, especially if you aren't yet onboard with the changes.

 

[JF19Longhorn]

Depending on what the markets (housing & truck) do next year, I'll be in the market. For me, RAM hasn't done enough since I bought my 2019 for them to be considered. I'll be shopping Ford and, for the first time ever, I'll be looking at the GM twins.

RAM will need to be insanely discounted for me to even consider buying basically the same truck again. ..especially with a first year TTI6 engine.

 

[CalvinC]

Listened to the recent TFL podcast with the Ram Chief Engineer on Hurricane.
Man o man, does this engine have all the right credentials -
Closed deck design, forged crank, rods and pistons (later on HO only), Air-to-water intercooling, manifold-integrated turbo mounting, straight 6 of course...

So the right ingredients are all there, just have to see if they are screwed together well.

It may well attract new buyers that would never have been attracted to the Hemi anyway.
People looking for an alternative to the only other WRX-truck (EcoBoost).

 

[SD Rebel]

Depending on what the markets (housing & truck) do next year, I'll be in the market. For me, RAM hasn't done enough since I bought my 2019 for them to be considered. I'll be shopping Ford and, for the first time ever, I'll be looking at the GM twins.

RAM will need to be insanely discounted for me to even consider buying basically the same truck again. ..especially with a first year TTI6 engine.

Good point, thought to be honest, the GM twins only did a minor fender update (removed controversial "sideburns") and updated the interior due to all the negative press on the interior back in 22/23. Otherwise, their current truck is also the same as the 2019 gen introduction. Ford does have more updates, with a redesign due to being out of sync with the GM/RAM, but give them credit for already doing a facelift again.

I think RAM just hit the mark so well in 2019, especially with the interior. I think their refresh should have been introduced in 2023 model year.

 

[trainman]

The down tick in sales is due to financing and price of vehicles.
Things are getting too unaffordable/unjustifiably priced and people like myself are just not buying at the rate they were anymore to prove a point.

If prices and financing got back to normal, I’d buy a new truck today. There is no benefit to me doing so though. I’ll bet there are many in this same mindset

I agree with you, sales are down on just about everything you buy today, the bad part of this is it's going to just get worse and if you expect prices to go down, its not going to. The manufactures can even offer some good incentives for new buyers, but I feel it's still not going to be enough to increase sales by the manufactures. Like it or not, it's going to be the have and have nots and it's all ready here for many. I'd like to buy a new RAM someday, but my 2019 RAM 4x4 5.7 Hemi with 28,000 miles on it is such a great truck I can't hardly see spending another $30,000 just to get a new ride and not much difference in a vehicle.

 

[CalvinC]

I can't hardly see spending another $30,000 just to get a new ride and not much difference in a vehicle.

I Bought my current truck for $45k, and can get about $31-$33k for it on trade, per KBB.

So I keep asking myself... is spending another $45k worth it for a slightly different, slightly newer experience??
Realistically, and certainly financially, no.

What I am really after is the Hemi V8 and improved ride of the DT Ram.

As a strictly financial proposition, I could literally swap in a brand new V8 engine, and get a top-shelf Fox DSC suspension with Deaver leaves and air, and still have $20k left over.

So I'm trying to reign in my Hemi FOMO a bit, realizing that maybe I can pick up something used down the road? IDK, my view on this changes every 27 minutes. My email to Mark Dodge is in draft state.

 

[ChrisID]

I have a 20 Laramie and a 21 Limited. The 20 is due to go soon and the only reason I haven't bought a 23-24 is because of the e-torque hemi only option. Do not want it. I will wait for the Hurricane. I have driven the Hurricane twice (rented Grand wagoneer) and it is very nice. I will want the HO version most likely if avail. I am not interested in the REV or Ramcharger at all.
Certainly higher prices and interest rates have hurt sales, but my theory is the majority don't want the e-torque hemi.
We'll see if these 'hemi' buyers will buy into the Hurricane. I will.
And I am not concerned about new model years at all, but mostly because I trade a lot so don't have to live with stuff very long. The Hurricane has been out a while, I think 2 years.
I just checked and my 21 was 66 msrp and a 24 same is 75. About 4% a year, which is not outrageous relative.

 

[boogielander]

100% and that's why Viper was spun off on its own to try and escape that perception. I do believe Rams quality was greatly improved with the DS but 30 years of K-cars type vehicles is a hard stigma to break.
I here the Dodge quality comments all the time then they get in my truck and or go for a ride and they are blown away but "it's still a dodge" comes out of their mouth which is also why Dodge tried to rebrand itself with RAM Trucks and separate itself from Dodge

yeap i was one of those guys.
We have a 2014 Chrysler Town and Country at the hotel I used to work at and that thing is terrible. Crap interior and the tranny has been rebuilt at least 3 times in the past 5 years. That was the reason why I went with 4Runner in 2017 when JLs were out already.
Then when I started working as a tech and spend more time servicing and outfitting Jeeps and Ram trucks I realized the current lineups are not what they used to be (interior wise) and then spent more time learning about Hemi, Pentastar, and the ZF 8 speed. So I switched side.

I have friends saying "I can't believe you went Ram! There are so many other better options!" Then I showed them my truck. They're awed by the interior quality, the 19 speakers, the 12in screen, the leather seats, the power, and the sound.
Then I tell them why Ram with hemi is the most logical choice:
Toyota's hybrid platform is just problematic in the future and does not perform well on gas. If they continued with 5.7 and use fully boxed frame then sure.
Ford Raptor - cam phaser issues. Tranny issues.
GM - Cheap quality. tranny issues.

And there's nothing else.

 

[boogielander]

now back to OP's question:
I highly doubt the drivetrain change will make a big change in numbers. Sure, new engine will attract some buyers, but for those who are going to keep their trucks for long (people like me) are going to sit and wait to see if there are any issues.
And then there's the long term reliability issue. The more complicated a system is, the less likely it's going to last. The more simple the design, the longer the product will last.

When comparing sales numbers, Ford and GM both have relatively strong fleet sales. I see more GM and Ford fleet vehicles than Ram all the time. If Ram can up their fleet sales then it can for sure close the gap.

 

[SkittleRam]

Stellantis is bleeding money on fines, due to not being remotely close to the required CAFE standards. They really have no choice but to get rid of the old gas guzzlers (5.7L V8, 6.2L SRT) in favor of more fuel-efficient engines.
Once they get the Ramcharger in production, there's talk about releasing a new V8 motor. But that can't really happen until they get the fleet average in line with regulations.

^This^

Lets hope they have a plan for a new V8 option in the future.

I think all the new changes will certainly boost sales and having REV and Ramcharger will help out greatly with MPG preceptions and FCS/STLA or whatever at this point, needs all the positive press they can get.

The only things I feel *my opinion only* they could more for the refresh, a bit more on the interior aesthetics, now it still looks good and the tech is good, but it does not look much different from the previous model and in the highly competitive field, they have done a bit more to stay on top.

Having no V8 option is a bummer and will certainly hurt some sales.

Bonus round, I kinda think they should have done a traditional Hybrid, like Ford's Powerboost, but I am sure they had their reasons for not doing so. I really think a 3.6 NA with a hybrid trans would make some decent MPG without the weight of a 92kw battery pack.

 

[Dewey]

Testing 0-60 in a brand new vehicle

 

[RedFred]

Testing 0-60 in a brand new vehicle

That's kind of annoying. Someone is going to be buying those brand new vehicles, and with only 13 miles on the odometer, they have already had some full throttle launches. Also, I was not really impressed with the numbers, but doing these tests with the low fuel light already on is probably not helping either.

 

[Blotonyod12]

The way trucks have gone up in price the last 3-4 years it’s almost at a tipping point. Without any discounts along with higher interest rates many are priced out of the market now and thinking twice about buying a truck.

Big rebates and dealer discounts boost sales. If RAM can continue pre-pandemic discounts while keeping inventory up sales will increase. Especially if GM and Ford are lacking in offering those same discounts and continue with lean inventory.

Problem is with a re-design for 2025 they will likely not offer much for discounts. The big wildcard is eliminating the Hemi. That will turn away a lot of buyers for sure.

My guess is a lot of buyers will pass on that first model year of changes especially with the new motor and wait a year so sales paper may be down. It’s much different than when the 5th Gens came out with an already proven Hemi.

Gonna be interesting for sure to see how sales go.

I have no doubt that the changes to the RAM will attract attention, but dropping the Hemi is a bold move. Customers are accustomed to its power. This could be a risk to the market position.