Is the 2025 "Refresh" going to be enough to boost sales?

[BowDown]

I think the sales slump is due to a confluence of factors:

1. Oldest truck on the lot--Ford and GM both came out with their current gen trucks after Ram did in 2018, yet both have already had a MCR while Ram has stayed steady with just minor YoY updates
2. Smallest and least efficient engine lineup--no counterpart to Ford's hybrid or GM's diesel
3. Escalating prices in light of the lack of updates--Ford and GM have hiked prices, too, so Ram isn't alone in that, but Ram is the only one who hasn't updated the truck along with the price hike

I think the '25 update will partially address #1, while #2 will only be partially addressed by the Ramcharger and REV. '25 pricing will mostly determine if #3 is an issue or not.

Frankly, I think the MCR is a pretty weak refresh. Tweaked front clip, mildly updated interior, and one new trim. Both Ford and GM had more solid MCRs than that.

Given that Ram is likely going to hold this new design for another 5-7 years before the next gen truck comes out, while Ford and GM will likely have a new gen well before then, I think ICE sales will see a modest bump for '25 and maybe '26 model years, then hold steady or decline again in comparison to Ford and GM.

The Ramcharger and REV models, on the other hand, I predict will be a rousing success provided Ram doesn't come out with outlandish pricing on them.

Both Ford and GM had a much larger hurdle to leap to catch up to Ram, GMs truck was new in 20 but the interior sucked donkeys, they had to update it much sooner as did Ford in order to compete with Ram. In regards to Rams 2025 refresh, that's really all they needed to do as the current truck is still very strong against Ford, GM and Toyota. Ram/Stellantis needs to work on drivetrains and that's where they are not speeding enough money or time given that they've likely been working on the Hurricane engine since 2020. This is typical with Dodge, myself and a few friends are car guys/ racers. We've all questioned why Dodge didnt move to an all aluminium 6.2 HC and Redeye engines in those cars and seriously compete with GM and Ford. Instead of refine, they threw more boost at the problem.

The Challenger/ Charger would be a hugely better performing car with a 300 lb less engine on the nose of the car.
Put that same refinement into the 5.7/6.4 in the trucks. I'd love to see a TT 5.7 with slightly smaller intake ports to help efficiency and performance but I think the I6 HO probably does that. I may have left the 5.7 in the model lineup but, as mentioned above, they have emissions/cafe issues

 

[BowDown]

The difference is, Ford F series crushes Ram in sales. So Ford can afford to sit on its laurels, as they say. Ford has room to breath and slip if needed without causing panic.

I agree but why is that? Ford doesn't have a decades long reputation of building crap, Dodge does. They finally hit a home run with this truck and at this point, I'm too afraid of them effing it up with a completely new truck and they may be too so go the Ford route and keep refining what you have

 

[BowDown]

I agree. I was one of those people. I was extremely nervous buying my first Chrysler product and Ram 1500 in 2011. They proved me wrong as my trucks have been great. But I do remember the dealership giving me loaner cars when I went in for service, and some of the other cars in the line up in 2011, were down right embarrassing bad. So much has changed since then, but the damage to the brand, in regards to perception, has remained for many.

100%
Dodge has always only had 2 or 3 good cars in their lineup with the rest being rental car trash.

 

[RedFred]

I agree but why is that? Ford doesn't have a decades long reputation of building crap, Dodge does. They finally hit a home run with this truck and at this point, I'm too afraid of them effing it up with a completely new truck and they may be too so go the Ford route and keep refining what you have

Exactly. Unfortunately, Ram has no choice but to keep trying to hit home runs. Until they can catch up to the big boys, they can't afford to miss. They also can't come out with products on par with GM and Ford, they need to have a product a step above if they want to steal market share. I'm not sure the Refresh is enough imo. They can still surprise me and add some additional appearance packages. Things like the Built-to-Serve editions were a hit, but Ram shot themselves in the foot by making the BTS editions so limited imo. I just feel like they leave a lot on the table sometimes and miss some opportunities.

 

[PM-Performance]

I priced shopped recently, they are in line spec for spec, maybe they were cheaper and caught up?

They were. Hence their popularity. They were the best bang for the buck

 

[brewdad]

MSRP for my 2022 Ram was $74,500 when ordered in May & when I took delivery in July the price had increased to $76,640, but my local dealer honored the original price agreed upon. Now the exact optioned 2024 Ram Limited lists for $80.800.

 

[RedFred]

MSRP for my 2022 Ram was $74,500 when ordered in May & when I took delivery in July the price had increased to $76,640, but my local dealer honored the original price agreed upon. Now the exact optioned 2024 Ram Limited lists for $80.800.

That's the other problem. There are multiple price increases through out the year. It's hard to keep up with the constant price changes. Although, the rebates and incentives have gotten better lately, but then when you take into account the new higher prices, you still end up at a higher price than you did this time last year for the same truck. I can only imagine that the Refresh will come with a decent price hike over the last price of the 2024's.

 

[Biga]

With how much Ram has increased sales over the past 10 years it was inevitable to get a down year with Ford and GM having newer fresher models. I would anticipate Ram will pick back up next year with the refreshed models. That said Ram has used to give you the most options for the money and now that has kind of switch to GM. The volume model is the Bighorn and Ram is putting out 60k bighorns with hologen headlights and no option to upgrade. Hopefully they will be standard on the 2025.

 

[Jimmy07]

Keep in mind that the sales numbers include the heavy duty trucks too, not just the 1500’s/150’s, and in ram’s case, the 1500 classic.
Ram heavy duty lineup has gone stale since it’s still a 4th gen, with no plans for a refresh anytime soon. They’ve also done the shrinkflation game with the options on the HDs- not offering options on the lower trim levels that they used to, while charging more money for packages with removed features. They’ve also gone so far as to not even offer a gas engine option on the higher trim levels the past two years, you are forced to get a Cummins if you want the higher trim levels. That will definitely push buyers away that don’t want a diesel.
After 2024, there will be no 1500 classic offered, so they won’t have those sales figures coattails to ride on anymore either.

 

[Eighty]

Probably not a huge dent, but killing off the TRX is going to drive a certain subset of people back to Ford (with the Raptor). Yes, the RHO is coming, but it's a calendar year away from now and there will be a 9 month gap where the cool kids go elsewhere. And possibly stay.

 

[silver billet]

there will be a 9 month gap where the cool kids go elsewhere

I'm still here, and in a bighorn no less. Oh wait, you said cool kids.

This is actually a perfect time for Ram to drop their price on the 6.4 crate engines. I wonder if they have the same emissions restrictions with those or if crate engines work differently, but I could limp my truck along for another 15 years with the 6.4.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Keep in mind that the sales numbers include the heavy duty trucks too, not just the 1500’s/150’s,

Those numbers also include commercial sales, which Ford is very heavy in.

 

[arod412]

Kinda really comes down to cost. Ram came in 2nd place one year in truck sales because it was CHEAPER than the competition.

The other thing that ram/dodge/jeep doesn't do well is their refreshes. Their refreshes are just long over due (4-5 years when ford/chevy is 3 years). And their refreshes aren't really that good. It helps that when they come out with a redesign, it's really popular, but refreshes are just blah at best.

2022 Ram Big Horn Back Country
2016 Dodge Charger scat pack
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara

 

[PM-Performance]

With how much Ram has increased sales over the past 10 years it was inevitable to get a down year with Ford and GM having newer fresher models. I would anticipate Ram will pick back up next year with the refreshed models. That said Ram has used to give you the most options for the money and now that has kind of switch to GM. The volume model is the Bighorn and Ram is putting out 60k bighorns with hologen headlights and no option to upgrade. Hopefully they will be standard on the 2025.

That’s how Ford was 3 years ago.

 

[Trippi]

But this is in relation to Ford and GM, where their sales is better. He is asking why RAM is down a bit more in relation to them. Everyone is dealing with high prices and high interest.

If they are leading it's only because they finally refreshed thier vehicles. I had a 2015 Silverado went with a 2020 Rebel because the Silverado looked EXACTLY the same as it did in 2015...then got a 2023 Limited because I was in the Ram ecosystem and Chevy wasn't offering anything I wanted to pull me away. Ford and GM made changes that Ram already made. They will swing back there is only some much new tech to go around.

 

[theblet]

If the economy stays in the crapper like it is now, I don’t see sales getting better. Inflation is killing everyone

 

[Rick3478]

"Refreshes" don't boost sales. Improvements boost sales. Better prices boost sales. Advertising/publicity, maybe a little.

 

[RedFred]

Year to date full size pickup truck sales numbers so far for 2023,
GM has sold over 629,000 Silverado's and Sierra's combined.
Ford has sold over 561,000 F-series
Ram has sold over 332,000
Both GM and Ford are up significantly for the year compared to this time last year while Ram is is down about 8.5% for the year so far.

 

[Biga]

One thing to keep in mind is Ram was actually able to get trucks to the dealer lots during the parts shortage while Ford and GM had huge lots filled with uncompleted trucks unable to make it to dealers. This made it much easier for Ford and GM to show a positive gain this year since all their trucks were not sitting on manufacturer lots waiting on chips to be installed, they actually have trucks to sell.

 

[RedFred]

One thing to keep in mind is Ram was able to get trucks to the dealer lots during the pandemic while Ford and GM where not so Ford and GM sales had a lot more room for improvement over the past 1-2 years.

That actually allowed Ram to gain some market share of the truck sales. But ideally, you would want to hold on to your gains. That doesn't seem to be the case. And then there is the question of if the refresh will actually help sales, not only short term but make a difference for the remainder of the 5th gen run.