How often do you change your engine oil?

[silver billet]

Not how it works? I've read plenty of engineering reports that thinner oil gets to places thicker oil doesn't as well, you can't say they all get there equally at the same time can you? They all get there eventually, but there is a reason for different weights and thickness right? They flow better at temperature when thinner. Good reason why my E90 went from 60W to 50W recommendation due to the already tight bearing tolerances leading to excessive wear. The thicker oil took longer to lubricate the bearings, especially when cold, when lubrication is most critical.

Again, you haven't answered my first question in two replies regarding the 6.4L using 40W oil and still getting lifter failure. That it can't be thinner oil being the cause for the lifter failures on 5.7L if the 6.4L uses thicker oil and still has the same lifter issues. Can you respond to that?

I've answered both your statements already. Thicker oil doesn't take any longer to reach lifters than thinner oil. It's not about getting to places, it's about film strength. These hemis use postive displacement oil pumps, the oil is getting pumped no matter how thick it is, unless your oil is so thick (past 75-ish psi, can't remember exactly) at which point the oil pump goes into safety bypass.

Keep in mind that the "0w" part of the oil is what matters when talking about cold temps. A 0w-20 is just as pumpable in the cold temps as a 0w-40, that's the entire reason for the winter grade.

As for the 40w, again already answered as best anyone can. We know that 40w offers more protection than 20w (this is a basic fact of tribology), we don't know for sure how viscosity affects lifter failures as it relates to hemi tick, but we do know that in general your engine (including lifters) is better protected using 30 or 40 weight oils.

 

[silver billet]

The story I read never said you couldn't have the issue with low idle hours, but they did say the frequency was astronomically higher in motors with very high idle hours. The belief that it can't be the cause because not all high idle Hemi's have the issue is called an anecdotal evidence fallacy; not logic.

No, it's called reading the facts. When you have high idle engines getting 0 failures, and low idle engines getting failures, that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that idling in and of itself is not the trigger.

Also keep in mind there are cases where 1 lifter out of 16 fails, and the other 15 in the same engine remain in perfect condition (relative to the rest of the age of the engine). All 16 lifters are getting the same amount of idle hours, yet only one fails.

Again, just reading the facts. A theory needs to explain why something happens, in addition to why it doesn't happen to the other lifters in the engine experiencing 100% identical conditions. The idle theory fails on this basis.

 

[silver billet]

We seem to be going in circles again, so I'm signing off in this thread. I didn't want to get dragged into yet another discussion on this and yet here we are (my fault).

No hard feelings guys, this is just how I see it, you're welcome to run whatever oil you like and that's all that matters.

As for my truck, it gets the best I can give it.

 

[DEG]

No, it's called reading the facts. When you have high idle engines getting 0 failures, and low idle engines getting failures, that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that idling in and of itself is not the trigger.

LOL! No, it's called a fallacy argument. Given your flawed logic if a couple of cars sitting in a hailstorm don't end up with dents even though the majority do end up with dents then the hailstorm can't possibly be the cause of the dents.

 

[SD Rebel]

We seem to be going in circles again, so I'm signing off in this thread. I didn't want to get dragged into yet another discussion on this and yet here we are (my fault).

No hard feelings guys, this is just how I see it, you're welcome to run whatever oil you like and that's all that matters.

As for my truck, it gets the best I can give it.

No worries man, neither do I, lets leave it as that, we all have our opinions, we are on these board because we love these trucks, I can't say I'm right or wrong either, maybe it's a bit of both.

 

[Sparcky]

Here in Canada there are generic oil change shops that like you to come back every 5000 kms. That's 3100 miles. Completely nuts. I did 12,000 - 14000 km (say about 8000 miles) on my last change (synthetic) and the oil meter was still above 25%.

Great marketing strategy. US used to be 5000 miles. Marketing made that 5000km in Canada. Way more changes than needed. This was all before Synthetic. NOW, my oil life meter goes off approx every 10,000 miles. Thats when I do my oil changes. Always full synthetic

 

[Bin01123]

I'm every 5K miles

 

[6of36]

Key words here..”experts”..
Most of them are old wives tales stuck on 3,000 miles and made a slight adjustment to 5K when synthetics come out.

Change what you want, when you want. At the end of the day, doesn’t matter.
Unless you want to send samples off to the lab, who actually are the experts.. it’s all handed down information and marketing.

Back in the day (late 90s, early 2000s) Mobil reps at shows would say we don’t make a semi-synthetic.
We make traditional or synthetic…we think semi-synthetic is walking in the middle of the road. True story.

Then Mobil Realized it was missing out on market segment and advertising (i.e. sales)… so of course, a few years later they offered a semi synthetic…or as they call it, “synthetic blend”.

I’ve lived by my EVIC, change it when it‘s convenient for me with less than 10% left. Averages out to 9K miles, give or take. I am the expert on my own vehicle… because I pay for it… LOL.

If you look higher up in the thread, than my post that I will go with the experts, you will see I'm not talking old wives tales. Lake Speed Jr., is the son of a Nascar racing legend, so probably knew more than anyone on this forum, about engines, before he got his degree in lubrication, and now runs Perfect Seal piston ring company. They make piston rings for most race engines out there. He tests engines for a living. But I'm sure you know better than him.

 

[dajogejr]

If you look higher up in the thread, than my post that I will go with the experts, you will see I'm not talking old wives tales. Lake Speed Jr., is the son of a Nascar racing legend, so probably knew more than anyone on this forum, about engines, before he got his degree in lubrication, and now runs Perfect Seal piston ring company. They make piston rings for most race engines out there. He tests engines for a living. But I'm sure you know better than him.

I think you’re confusing race engines with every day engines.
Never said I knew more than anyone or knew better than anyone.
But I’m pretty sure not too many race engines are expected to last years and a few hundred thousand miles in all different weather and temp condition.
But if you’ve got examples of such, please share as well.
Please share race engines that have MDS, stop start, eTorque…

If you also noticed, I mentioned wives tales of 3,000 miles. Context when quoting always helps…instead of cherry picking.
If you came to pick bones, make sure there’s meat on them in the first place.

I absolutely gave silver bullet his due and respect for his input, discussion points, and views.

 

[6of36]

I've been looking at the hemi tick issue for 4.5 years of my ownership and every body has a theory. High idle time is NOT the cause. It's a correlation, meaning, as you use your engine more and more (whether that's time put on by driving or time put on by idling), if you have a bad lifter or junk oil it will eventually go. And/or if it's crud getting into your needle bearings then a higher quality oil can clean it out (HPL, probably Redline as well).

Police and Taxi cars are always used as evidence but keep in mind they are supposed to be serviced under the extreme duty cycle which means roughly once a month or month and a half, every 320 hours IIRC. Very few cars there get that treatment, again if anything this supports the theory that these engines want very fresh and very clean oil at all times. Most of them are just getting whatever bulk and cheap junk can be had in 5w-20 flavour, its terrible oil.

6.4's also get lifter failure. These SRT 6.4s are not fleet cars, they're engines in sport trims like the charger/challenger and also the BGE in the 2500 gets failures, the SRT 6.4 generally idles far less and still has the same number of failures percentage wise.

Redline and HPL is not "magic fluid". Remember there are about 100+ success stories on the other forum of using Redline to help though what exactly it is doing is not 100% certain, but it is most definitely reducing the noise which can only mean less/no further physical damage. It might not mean absolute prevention, but it definitely means extension.

I worked for a city, doing building maintenance. They have a DPW garage, for all the city vehicles, except police cars, and a police vehicle garage, with one special mechanic. I talked to them often. Police cars got special maintenance, due to the excessive idle time, and used Amzoil lubricants in engines, transmissions, and differentials. Not to say every city does that, but the one I worked for took special care of police cars.

 

[6of36]

Good point about the idling of Police and livery vehicles.

However, 6.4L also gets 40W oil from the factory if I recall? I remember that guy that does Hemi engine videos stated the 6.4L has just as many, if not more lifter failures than the 5.7L. So can't be the 20W oil then?

Oil viscosity recommendations, are based on bearing clearances. 6.4s have different clearances, than 5.7s. Again Lake speed Jr., goes into explanations in his videos. There are engineered charts, of what oil viscosity to use, based on your engine build clearances.

 

[6of36]

I think you’re confusing race engines with every day engines.
Never said I knew more than anyone or knew better than anyone.
But I’m pretty sure not too many race engines are expected to last years and a few hundred thousand miles in all different weather and temp condition.
But if you’ve got examples of such, please share as well.
Please share race engines that have MDS, stop start, eTorque…

If you also noticed, I mentioned wives tales of 3,000 miles. Context when quoting always helps…instead of cherry picking.
If you came to pick bones, make sure there’s meat on them in the first place.

I absolutely gave silver bullet his due and respect for his input, discussion points, and views.

He doesn't do just race engines. They do piston rings for all engines. I'm only stating his expertise. Go watch some of his videos on Youtube. He's a geeky looking guy, but he explains the hows, and whys, of oil. He has a couple channels.

 

[dajogejr]

He doesn't do just race engines. They do piston rings for all engines. I'm only stating his expertise. Go watch some of his videos on Youtube. He's a geeky looking guy, but he explains the hows, and whys, of oil. He has a couple channels.

I’ll watch some of his videos… anyone can learn from anyone.

Point being…to be clear. You parroted all his ideas…and based it on race engines, to tell me I basically wasn’t worthy and didn’t know as much as someone else, while placing all your faith in knowledge in someone else.

I find it amusing that you mentioned Amsoil in the city department squad vehicles.. Amsoil is one of the biggest snake oil out there, both by their sales marketing and dealer distro model.

 

[Nascar Tommy]

The oil life indicator takes a lot into account.
I show I'm at 68% life with 3,600 miles and 1 year time.
So I'll probably do it in spring around 4,000 miles.

 

[DEG]

The oil life indicator takes a lot into account.
I show I'm at 68% life with 3,600 miles and 1 year time.
So I'll probably do it in spring around 4,000 miles.

If you have had the same oil for a year you are due and oil change now regardless of miles or what the indicator says.

The owners manual says: "Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 10,000 miles (16,000 km), 12 months or 350 hours of engine run time, whichever comes first."

 

[silver billet]

The oil life indicator takes a lot into account.
I show I'm at 68% life with 3,600 miles and 1 year time.
So I'll probably do it in spring around 4,000 miles.

It's still a very poor indicator. It has no indication of the quality of oil in use. When I was using Redline oils, my UOA's would come back with TBN in the 4 ish range. When I use HPL, the TBN comes back 5 and last one was 8. All roughly in the same mileage driven.

For the record, IIRC Blackstone recommends changing when the TBN drops around 2. So in my experience, I can go a lot further on HPL than I could on Redline and the oil indicator is completely unaware of this.

Just another reason to avoid it.

 

[SShadow1974]

So here's a different question... When should you do your FIRST oil change?

 

[silver billet]

So here's a different question... When should you do your FIRST oil change?

Some say it doesn't need to be changed early, but I did my first at about 2500 kms, second one 5000 after that, then moved to my regular oil change schedule. Oil is like 80 bucks for high quality, less if you're just pouring off the shelf oil in, and I like the peace of mind.

My oil changes and views on all this is centered around keeping the truck until the wheels fall off (at least, I maintain it as if that's the goal and it looks more and more like that's the case for me), if you don't plan to drive it forever then I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest.

 

[Mr.Grid]

From what I’ve read, the roller lifter needle bearing “needles” in the 5.7 Hemi were increased in size to improve the needle bearing failure problem starting in the 2017 model year.

My 2011 Hemi Ram had lifter needle bearing failure at 180K in mid 2021. Over 60% of those miles were towing a 7k# enclosed car hauler. I religiously changed oil at 3k miles using 5w20 semi-synthetic oil and filter.

My 2022 Hemi Ram is getting oil changes at 5k miles now with MS-6395 0w20 full synthetic oil (whatever is on sale) and I can do these for $40 with a Mopar M0-339 filter.

For me, I believe changing oil more often at 40- 45% oil life left will produce excellent results for my type of usage.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Some say it doesn't need to be changed early, but I did my first at about 2500 kms, second one 5000 after that, then moved to my regular oil change schedule. Oil is like 80 bucks for high quality, less if you're just pouring off the shelf oil in, and I like the peace of mind.

My oil changes and views on all this is centered around keeping the truck until the wheels fall off (at least, I maintain it as if that's the goal and it looks more and more like that's the case for me), if you don't plan to drive it forever then I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest.

On my 19 I changed the original factory fill at 1500 miles then every 3-4 thou afterwards. Excessive some will say but I only used the dealers “50 gallon barrel shop oil” and usually got $30-35 coupons. It wasn’t even semi-synthetic, whatever blend percentage that is…
Never heard a peep from the engine for the 24K miles we had it.

Now my neighbor has a 16 hemi that he changes “faithfully” at the 0 percent on the oil indicator. It rattles and ticks like hell. It has 110K on it. Ive got to believe his long change intervals have made the situation much worse.

Oil is cheap. YMMV