Got oil cooler? No, u don’t...

[Trooper4]

If you are pushing the truck to it's limit on a regular basis? Sure. But if that were the case you'd probably be better served getting an HD truck.

I cant remember what my temps run, but nothing that alarms me. I know the water and oil are around the 200 mark, but the tranny seldom goes over 200, and I tow heave. Was just wondering.

 

[SD Rebel]

Despite what others may say, there’s no real benefit, but real downsides, to automotive lubricating oil being over 220deg. Yes, synth have more thermal headroom/margin, but I want to ensure my truck’s oil doesn’t exceed 240 (which it does under certain towing circumstances). Daily driving averages 200-210, peaks >240 towing: I’d be happy to keep the current daily ave temps, and just reduce the peaks to under 240.

So, current plan is:
- Moroso 23686 remote oil adapter
- Mishimoto in-line thermostat 200*
- unused oil cooler from a rally car project
- remote oil filter mount 22x1.5
- couple short and a couple longer -10AN braided hoses

Filter will go on pass. side frame, cooler will go either where the pass. tow hook would go, or just in front of the condenser. Should be fun...

Absolutely agree on that! Though I don't tow heavy often, so I rarely see those temps. But if I did I would be looking at your post on what I need to buy next!

 

[User_3336]

Stellanis /FCA does have one direct injection gasoline engine (2.0L I4) and it’s DI only

Is that the new one in the Jeep? the one that Biden was touting the other day?

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Is that the new one in the Jeep? the one that Biden was touting the other day?

I have a 2019 Cherokee Limited with the 2L TGDI. Great engine and an all around fun vehicle to drive.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Is that the new one in the Jeep? the one that Biden was touting the other day?

Yes it’s in the 4XE hybrid, but it’s also used as a stand alone engine.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Is there really any reason (technically speaking) to install a true oil cooler?

If one considers the untold millions of towing miles that the 5.7L has completed successfully with the factory setup then the answer is no.

 

[cj7]

If one considers the untold millions of towing miles that the 5.7L has completed successfully with the factory setup then the answer is no.

By that logic, the HEMI tick isn’t real, and cam issues don’t matter, and conventional oil is all you’d ever need....

But at some level, it’s true: will my truck explode if I don’t put an oil cooler in? No.
Would it be better if the oil temps didn’t go over 240? Yes, but the incremental benefit is probably quite small.
Will it matter to 99% of 1500 owners? No.
Which would I rather have: an extra $400 in my pocket, or a warm and fuzzy feeling about pushing an FCA-built truck with an old-school engine, where all the latest investments have only been toward reducing fuel consumption?

u get the point...

 

[HoosierTrooper]

By that logic, the HEMI tick isn’t real, and cam issues don’t matter, and conventional oil is all you’d ever need....

But at some level, it’s true: will my truck explode if I don’t put an oil cooler in? No.
Would it be better if the oil temps didn’t go over 240? Yes, but the incremental benefit is probably quite small.
Will it matter to 99% of 1500 owners? No.
Which would I rather have: an extra $400 in my pocket, or a warm and fuzzy feeling about pushing an FCA-built truck with an old-school engine, where all the latest investments have only been toward reducing fuel consumption?

u get the point...

I don’t discount the Hemi tick or the cam issues, but you’re right that the incremental benefit will be quite small and at the end of the trucks life there’s no way to know if it made any difference at all. But I get the warm and fuzzy feeling. If you’re concerned about the heat a much simpler and less expensive option is to just bump the oil viscosity a bit to 5W-30. Slightly higher minimum oil film thickness (MOFT) and HTHS viscosity will help deal with higher heat, and there are numerous choices available that meet MS-6395.

 

[silver billet]

I don’t discount the Hemi tick or the cam issues, but you’re right that the incremental benefit will be quite small and at the end of the trucks life there’s no way to know if it made any difference at all. But I get the warm and fuzzy feeling. If you’re concerned about the heat a much simpler and less expensive option is to just bump the oil viscosity a bit to 5W-30. Slightly higher minimum oil film thickness (MOFT) and HTHS viscosity will help deal with higher heat, and there are numerous choices available that meet MS-6395.

If you're going to void your warranty by going to 30w (which I do myself, towing being a big reason), no need to worry about the bogus MS spec, many oils exceed that spec but can't label it as such because they didn't bother paying FCA for the certification (Redline being one of them but there are other better oils out there too)

 

[HoosierTrooper]

If you're going to void your warranty by going to 30w (which I do myself, towing being a big reason), no need to worry about the bogus MS spec, many oils exceed that spec but can't label it as such because they didn't bother paying FCA for the certification (Redline being one of them but there are other better oils out there too)

Nowhere in the OM does it say the warranty will be “voided” if any grade other than the recommended, not required, 5W-20 is used. I think the OP will have a much bigger problem with MOPAR by installing an aftermarket oil cooler, thermostat and remote mount oil filter if things go sideways than using a 30 grade oil that meets their recommended specifications, MS-6395 and the API certification.

 

[cj7]

I don’t discount the Hemi tick or the cam issues, but you’re right that the incremental benefit will be quite small and at the end of the trucks life there’s no way to know if it made any difference at all. But I get the warm and fuzzy feeling. If you’re concerned about the heat a much simpler and less expensive option is to just bump the oil viscosity a bit to 5W-30. Slightly higher minimum oil film thickness (MOFT) and HTHS viscosity will help deal with higher heat, and there are numerous choices available that meet MS-6395.

Interesting idea. I don’t think a higher viscosity will reduce oil temps, and I don’t think increasing the viscosity will reduce the aging/ deterioration /breakdown negative effects of high heat. It May increase film thickness.

In fact, a thicker oil will have slower flow thru bearings, which will increase oil heating. At the same time, viscous heating (as well as parasitic losses) will increase. Lots of anecdotal evidence that changing to a thicker oil actually raises measured oil temps. Higher oil temps could mean better heat transfer at the exchanger, but lower fluid flow rates could reduce heat transfer at the bearing. In fact, the data I’ve seen shows that higher flow of lower viscosity oil mores more heat...but likely very specific to each design/application.

If the mission was to increase film thickness, I’d agree. But I believe film thickness is adequate (one of the few things I trust they got right after all these years) as long as the oil maintains integrity.

But, yes, definitely a 1st-world problem

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Interesting idea. I don’t think a higher viscosity will reduce oil temps, and I don’t think increasing the viscosity will reduce the aging/ deterioration /breakdown negative effects of high heat. It May increase film thickness.

In fact, a thicker oil will have slower flow thru bearings, which will increase oil heating. At the same time, viscous heating (as well as parasitic losses) will increase. Lots of anecdotal evidence that changing to a thicker oil actually raises measured oil temps. Higher oil temps could mean better heat transfer, but that job is for coolant...at least in water-cooled engines.

If the mission was to increase film thickness, I’d agree. But I believe film thickness is adequate (one of the few things I trust they got right after all these years). But maybe the best answer is a slightly higher min viscosity and an oil cooler!

If you believe the oil film thickness provided by the recommended 5W-20 and the factory oil cooler is adequate for the operating conditions then oil temperature is irrelevant. I guess I don’t see why you’re so concerned with oil temperature if the MOFT is adequate? And the difference in viscosity between 20 and 30 grade oils is not going to show any measurable increase in operating temps. There are plenty of folks using 30 grades in their 5.7 and not seeing any temp differences, some belong to this forum and have reported such.

 

[GKIII]

Nowhere in the OM does it say the warranty will be “voided” if any grade other than the recommended, not required, 5W-20 is used. I think the OP will have a much bigger problem with MOPAR by installing an aftermarket oil cooler, thermostat and remote mount oil filter if things go sideways than using a 30 grade oil that meets their recommended specifications, MS-6395 and the API certification.

You really need to read the warranty information booklet, vehicle manufacturers (including RAM) will absolutely void your warranty if you are found to be using fluids not recommended in the owners manual. This doesn't just apply to the grade of the oil but any certifications they require as well.



With that said, I do agree about the oil cooler. That's a fantastic way to make things more difficult for yourself if you need powertrain warranty work.

 

[cj7]

You really need to read the warranty information booklet, vehicle manufacturers (including RAM) will absolutely void your warranty if you are found to be using fluids not recommended in the owners manual. This doesn't just apply to the grade of the oil but any certifications they require as well.

View attachment 102222

With that said, I do agree about the oil cooler. That's a fantastic way to make things more difficult for yourself if you need powertrain warranty work.

Also interesting. Funny thing is, my dealer is incompetent, so anything short of a failure that keeps the truck from running, isn’t going to get me into the dealer.

I seriously debated getting an extended warranty, but after the recent experiences with the local dealer, I decided against spending the money when it would require them to agree whatever was wrong was covered, and then having them blindly trying to fix it. Worst dealership experience I’ve ever had was these RAM service attempts; need not apply for more.

But you are right, they will use any excuse, despite Magnuson-Moss.

 

[GKIII]

Also interesting. Funny thing is, my dealer is incompetent, so anything short of a failure that keeps the truck from running, isn’t going to get me into the dealer.

I seriously debated getting an extended warranty, but after the recent experiences with the local dealer, I decided against spending the money when it would require them to agree whatever was wrong was covered, and then having them blindly trying to fix it. Worst dealership experience I’ve ever had was these RAM service attempts; need not apply for more.

But you are right, they will use any excuse, despite Magnuson-Moss.

In my experience it just depends on the dealer. I have dealt with some great dealer service departments and some really terrible ones in terms of competence. I have the MOPAR extended warranty for the RAM, but I didn't buy it because I'm worried about the motor. It's all the other stuff in modern vehicles that break more frequently. My wife's honda extended warranty has paid for itself 4-5x over, the car has always run fine but the AC and electronics on the other hand.....

Also, yes. They will hassle you over any aftermarket additions in your engine bay. I've been given grief over an aftermarket intake and a catch can before, not worth the hassle imo while inside the powertrain warranty period.

 

[silver billet]

Nowhere in the OM does it say the warranty will be “voided” if any grade other than the recommended, not required, 5W-20 is used. I think the OP will have a much bigger problem with MOPAR by installing an aftermarket oil cooler, thermostat and remote mount oil filter if things go sideways than using a 30 grade oil that meets their recommended specifications, MS-6395 and the API certification.

It doesn't say anything in the manual period about voiding warranty WRT to oil, at least not that I've seen. We all know how it will go though once they ask what you've been running or want to see the receipts.

Edit: should have read GKIII's post first, my bad. Guess it does talk about voiding warranty after all.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

You really need to read the warranty information booklet, vehicle manufacturers (including RAM) will absolutely void your warranty if you are found to be using fluids not recommended in the owners manual. This doesn't just apply to the grade of the oil but any certifications they require as well.

View attachment 102222

With that said, I do agree about the oil cooler. That's a fantastic way to make things more difficult for yourself if you need powertrain warranty work.

That says they won’t cover damage caused by the use of fluids not recommended, not that they will “void your warranty” for simply using them. And since they recommend using API certified oils that meet MS-6395, they would have to prove that the API certified oil that meets their certification damaged the engine.

I find it interesting that under the section on page 369 in my manual explaining the API symbol it states the symbol certifies 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30, listing all of those viscosities could be confusing to the average consumer since there’s no warning on that page that using anything other than the recommended 5W-20 will damage the engine or using it will “void the warranty”. There is a very clear warning on that page that using chemical flushes could cause damage that is not covered by the warranty.

The oil recommendation section is an absolute mess in the way it’s worded, and should really be made clearer. The OM for my Jeep turbo makes it very clear that you should use synthetic 5W-30 that is API SN+ and meets MS-13340 or equivalent.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

It doesn't say anything in the manual period about voiding warranty WRT to oil, at least not that I've seen. We all know how it will go though once they ask what you've been running or want to see the receipts.

Edit: should have read GKIII's post first, my bad. Guess it does talk about voiding warranty after all.

It states that they won’t cover damage caused by using a fluid that’s not recommended, doesn’t state they will “void the warranty” simply for using it. In your case they would have to prove the Redline you use damaged the engine according to their own wording.

 

[BowDown]

That says they won’t cover damage caused by the use of fluids not recommended, not that they will “void your warranty” for simply using them. And since they recommend using API certified oils that meet MS-6395, they would have to prove that the API certified oil that meets their certification damaged the engine.

I find it interesting that under the section on page 369 in my manual explaining the API symbol it states the symbol certifies 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30, listing all of those viscosities could be confusing to the average consumer since there’s no warning on that page that using anything other than the recommended 5W-20 will damage the engine or using it will “void the warranty”. There is a very clear warning on that page that using chemical flushes could cause damage that is not covered by the warranty.

The oil recommendation section is an absolute mess in the way it’s worded, and should really be made clearer. The OM for my Jeep turbo makes it very clear that you should use synthetic 5W-30 that is API SN+ and meets MS-13340 or equivalent.

Pretty sure them stating they will not pay for damages caused by the use of non recommended fluids is just a round about way of saying your engine warranty is void. IF FCA isn't paying for the repair, that only leaves you which = void

 

[BowDown]

Interesting idea. I don’t think a higher viscosity will reduce oil temps, and I don’t think increasing the viscosity will reduce the aging/ deterioration /breakdown negative effects of high heat. It May increase film thickness.

In fact, a thicker oil will have slower flow thru bearings, which will increase oil heating. At the same time, viscous heating (as well as parasitic losses) will increase. Lots of anecdotal evidence that changing to a thicker oil actually raises measured oil temps. Higher oil temps could mean better heat transfer at the exchanger, but lower fluid flow rates could reduce heat transfer at the bearing. In fact, the data I’ve seen shows that higher flow of lower viscosity oil mores more heat...but likely very specific to each design/application.

If the mission was to increase film thickness, I’d agree. But I believe film thickness is adequate (one of the few things I trust they got right after all these years) as long as the oil maintains integrity.

But, yes, definitely a 1st-world problem

To solve the concern you have in regards to oil temps and a cooler you be best to run a thermostat controlled oil cooler such as this:

High-Flow Engine & Transmission Oil Cooler Thermostat

Improved Racing's Flow Series Motor Sport (FSM) oil thermostat is a universal solution that can be used with any oil cooler on any vehicle or industrial application flowing up to 20 GPM (75.71 LPM). Accelerates fluid warmup time and maintains a minimum fluid temperature. Patented high-flow...

www.improvedracing.com

This would allow you to bypass the cooler when temps don't require it keeping oil temps hot enough to burn out contaminants yet allow the cooler to operate in extreme conditions.

That said, given the capabilities of synthetic oil, I see this as unnecessary as synthetic oil is perfectly capable of temps well past 400°