PowerJrod
Ram Guru
Already answered that question...thanks.
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ETorque ? Anyone happy with it? Reliability ?
- Thread starter AdrianVall
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PowerJrod
Ram Guru
Totally agree! Hyping the side benefits is a very reasonable idea....which is part of marketing lol. Don't get me wrong...I like the idea of Etorque helping extend the transmission life...I'm just not buying into that statement.
silver billet
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Yes, and peeing in the ocean no doubt raises the sea level. What we're missing in this discussion, is the concept of "scale"; "how much" does it help. Until I see detailed analysis, it's just marketing fluff.
It's very funny. FCA goes and does all this crazy stuff like MDS and ETorque and my truck has none of that (or I disable it) and I still get 25 mpg if I try. I mean honestly, you can't blame them for trying every little thing to increase fuel efficiency but it just goes to show, just because something is done, and can be done, doesn't mean it's effective in the least bit in the real world.
It's not "standard", however, it is the most common configuration.
If you're willing to wait 2-5 months, you can probably get the truck built exactly how you want it per order guide.
Can't really comment on longevity/reliability with the eTorque system but having now used it, I can say it's the absolute best system to have for start/stop capability. It makes the auto start/stop outperform my previous vehicle which was no slouch ('18 Audi S5). It doesn't save fuel in any significant manner but what it really does is smooths out the shifting tremendously while driving around and towing, and the start/stop is is incredibly smooth and seamless. There's literally 0 hesitation or "jerkiness" going from standby at a light (engine off) to engine on, and moving forward. Apparently the eTorque system while re-starting the engine also gives the initial "half turn" of the wheels to get you rolling at the same time as starting the engine extremely quickly.
Very cool technology. It should also really help transmission longevity by greatly improving the shift synchronization done in transmissions by matching the correct RPM for shift points, as well as of course by extension smoothness. I can't imagine the truck without it personally
Very cool technology. It should also really help transmission longevity by greatly improving the shift synchronization done in transmissions by matching the correct RPM for shift points, as well as of course by extension smoothness. I can't imagine the truck without it personally
The Critic
Active Member
My other car is a 2011 Prius. It still has the original battery at 211,000 miles. Toyota warranties their batteries for 10/150K now. I would expect any hybrid or mild-hybrid battery to last far longer than the mileage you predicted.
I agree that as far as stop/start systems go, this is the best I've ever had experience with. But what's the point if the fuel savings are minimal at best? I'm convinced that if I did a lot of city driving I would see some fuel savings. But with my commute it's pointless.
As far as shifting goes, There's no difference I can feel between our Limited without etorque and our Laramie with etorque. Even when I was test driving trucks I really couldn't tell any difference between trucks with etorque and trucks without it. I can appreciate anything that might help transmission longevity, but this particular transmission is very durable without etorque. As an etorque owner it seems more like hype than anything beneficial for me.
As far as shifting goes, There's no difference I can feel between our Limited without etorque and our Laramie with etorque. Even when I was test driving trucks I really couldn't tell any difference between trucks with etorque and trucks without it. I can appreciate anything that might help transmission longevity, but this particular transmission is very durable without etorque. As an etorque owner it seems more like hype than anything beneficial for me.
The Critic
Active Member
Guy who posted this was an engineer for FCA on the Pentastar team. His comments about start/stop are eye opening:
“As for the other comment yes, without a doubt turning off ESS will significantly reduce engine wear in the 3.6. I dealt directly with the data on that. I'll keep my comments to my limited experience but other engines are no different and will follow suit. Noted above was the need for iROX bearing coatings, these were entirely driven by ESS operating issues and VERY high engine wear. They provided a lower coefficient of friction (thus reduced wear) as the crankshaft made contact with the bearings (Fun fact: the front and rear bearings will have the most wear because of the accessory drive loading and trans loading). The problem is simple. A hydrodynamic bearing doesn't touch any other metal, it's just floating on oil. So when you stop the engine its like killing the throttle pulling a skier in a boat. The skier no longer is on top of the water and sinks, scraping the sandbar and wearing the down the ski. The engine is doing the same to itself every time ESS goes off. Crankshaft, cams, timing chains all go to zero velocity and grind against their metal neighbor. E85 is another animal. it basically washes out the oil that is embedded in the cross hatching which is intended to actually hold oil. Also all other peaks and valleys of machined parts (nothing is actually smooth!) like the cams, timing chain etc. When you combined with ESS and E85 you are basically scraping metal on metal for a very high percentage of the engine life vs. a gasoline steady state cycle. It was so high the cylinder bores on our general durability runs with ESS were mirror smooth by the end. Very interesting stuff. I wont run ESS or E85 for the record. lol”
626,000 mile Pentastar teardown
Originally Posted by OIL_UDDERNice! As an former Pentastar design engineer I am slightly bias but the engine is really high quality. Few points from the development using tens of millions of dollars in analysis and testing regarding the oil and durability..... The lighter oil was chosen mostly...
www.bobistheoilguy.com
First, V6 engines are notably problematic for MDS, as described here:
"Bob Sheaves on why the system is usually used on V8 engines, not V6 engines:
An Otto cycle engine takes two revolutions [full turns] of the crankshaft to fire all the cylinders. Two revolutions times 360 degrees [one complete circle] equals 720 degrees of rotation; dividing that by the number of cylinders gives you 120 degrees [on a V6], so you have a cylinder firing every 120 degrees of rotation. On a V6, when you take out half of the cylinders, you have increased the firing rotation to 240 degrees (720/3), balanced between each firing of a cylinder but with increased harmonic vibrations as the revolutions per minute increase. Deactivation of two or four cylinders in a V6 would mean losing the multiple of six cylinders, which is what keeps the engine in primary balance. [Honda deactivates two cylinders on its V6 engine, which improves the balance by making the firing rotation 180°, the same as in a V8 firing on half its cylinders. With all eight cylinders firing, V8 engines fire every 90 degrees.]"
So you might question the author of the quote above on their comments about how "...it really is no different", especially when they admitted to having limited experience in this area. Meanwhile, on the HEMI:
"Chrysler engineer Cole added:
The modern Hemi always shuts off the same four cylinders. In our durability test cycle (150,000 customer equivalent miles driven at the 95th percentile, meaning that only 5% of our owners are more abusive than our testing), we have not found any adverse wear patterns.”
(Both of the above statements were sourced from Allpar.)
Back in 2004, Chrysler wrote in a special report on the HEMI, "...MDS was part of the engine's original design. This resulted in a cylinder-deactivation system that is elegantly simple and completely integrated into the engine design. The benefits are fewer parts, maximum reliability and lower cost... The HEMI engine with MDS has completed over 6.5 million customer-equivalent miles through Chrysler Group's development and durability testing... The system deactivates the valve lifters. This keeps the valves in four cylinders closed, and there is no combustion. In addition to stopping combustion, energy is not lost by pumping air through these cylinders... Improved fuel economy is realized without any change in customer experience — drivers will receive the benefit without changing their driving habits and without compromising style, comfort or convenience."
Draw your own conclusions, of course, but these "modern HEMI" engines have proven to be pretty reliable over the past 15+ years and >3 million units.
PowerJrod
Ram Guru
Idk that mileage I mention is from experience since we had multiple hybrid vehicles at work for a few years. They all needed new hybrid batteries between 80k - 100k miles.
Gman
Ram Guru
The green vehicle article was simply that. It was one of many articles and is not the source of record for FCA. FCA explains what the functions of eTorque are and why they designed it that way. If you let a single article about a subject from a source you don't like determine what you think about something, that's your call.
eTorque also applies electromotive force through the motor to keep the engine in ECO more often.
If you don't like it, don't get it. Unless you're an FCA engineer, please provide your bona fides as to why we should believe you when you say it does nothing and is simply marketing.
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PowerJrod
Ram Guru
Looks like someone wasn't following the whole conversation. I never said it doesn't do anything. And I really like my Etorque for the gas savings benefits that I actually get. I just don't believe a word of the "helping the transmission" part. Next time....read the whole conversation before posting a comment like that. Thanks.
I'm about to place an order and this is why I've decided to go without the eTorque. I'm in FL and it's obviously hot. 99% of my driving is local. There's already criticism about the AC lacking in these vehicles. The last thing I want is for a weak AC system shutting down while at a stoplight.
I tow my boat about five miles twice a year for maintenance, so the improved towing starts that eTorque offers is really moot for me.
I also tend to keep my vehicles a long time. My current truck is a 2010. Who knows how long that massive battery pack will last?
Tydog96
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Think about options you would not want to give up right now. I can remember my grandfather hoohaw'ing on a pickup trucks that were now getting air-conditioners. Just something to break he said (wheat farmer in Oklahoma). Sometimes you got to implement technology for the advancement of technology - and if we all let 'perfect' get in the way of stretching the envelope, then we are our own worst enemy. Don't buy the eTorque if you don't want it people. I probably bought it because my life has been built around technology and it spices up my world - to a fault sometimes. I ordered my 2020 LImited to start retirement with after a driving my Dad's old '98 Laramie he bought from himself when he retired from being a Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth dealer. Play it safe folks. I don't play that way.
The Critic
Active Member
Never heard this one before. Where did you read this?
peeceejay
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Seconded. I came out of a 2018 Audi Q5 and I would often find myself knocking the gear shifter into sport, just to prevent the start/stop from shutting the engine down at lights. It was a noticable delay getting going again.
My Ram with etorque will be rolling before the engine kicks in - a much better experience.
FCA engineering videos and marketing materials (links found elsewhere on this forum). Other ancillary benefits include shift smoothing and regenerative braking.
Gman
Ram Guru
Who said I was talking about you?
I've read the entire thread, but thanks for the feedback, captain condescension. Not sure who you think you are talking to with that attitude. Does somebody need a hug?
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MannymanX
5thGenRams Supporter
If someone would have asked me about my eTorque experience about two weeks ago, I'd say "35K Miles in, not a single issue".
Well, About two weeks ago, My battery(12v) died. I tried starting the truck a few time and only got a "click" from the engine.
I always have a jump-box in my bed so i went there and try to pop it open and grab it. What do ya know, The frigging tailgate doesn't open because there's no power.
Got a jump-box that didn't have enough juice to start but it did manage to get me into the bed.
Got my Jump-box hooked up and the truck started in two seconds. As soon as i disconnected the external battery, the truck died again. It wouldn't charge. Tried a few more times and still nothing.
I figured one of the battery cells completely died and that's why it wouldn't charge nor keep a good closed circuit.
Took me an hour to disengage the stupid eBrake, and finally i got to the dealer. It was later on Friday and the service dept was closed already.
The next morning i show up 8am to check in and the service advisor told me that it'll take about 5 hours, and i'll have my truck before 3pm.
I got a call at 2pm saying that the truck would not run, no matter how many batteries they try, they suspect it's the eTorque 48v power-pack and they will know better on Monday when the master-tech comes back from vacation.
Monday came and they verified that the power-pack is bad, i fried it(Supposedly. I was being accused) while trying to jump-start the truck. They placed an order for a new one, The PP part is on back order and there's no ETA.
My truck has been sitting at the dealership service dept lot for two weeks now and would probably stay there for a lot longer, BECAUSE OF A F***ING JUMP START!!!!!!!
Well, About two weeks ago, My battery(12v) died. I tried starting the truck a few time and only got a "click" from the engine.
I always have a jump-box in my bed so i went there and try to pop it open and grab it. What do ya know, The frigging tailgate doesn't open because there's no power.
Got a jump-box that didn't have enough juice to start but it did manage to get me into the bed.
Got my Jump-box hooked up and the truck started in two seconds. As soon as i disconnected the external battery, the truck died again. It wouldn't charge. Tried a few more times and still nothing.
I figured one of the battery cells completely died and that's why it wouldn't charge nor keep a good closed circuit.
Took me an hour to disengage the stupid eBrake, and finally i got to the dealer. It was later on Friday and the service dept was closed already.
The next morning i show up 8am to check in and the service advisor told me that it'll take about 5 hours, and i'll have my truck before 3pm.
I got a call at 2pm saying that the truck would not run, no matter how many batteries they try, they suspect it's the eTorque 48v power-pack and they will know better on Monday when the master-tech comes back from vacation.
Monday came and they verified that the power-pack is bad, i fried it(Supposedly. I was being accused) while trying to jump-start the truck. They placed an order for a new one, The PP part is on back order and there's no ETA.
My truck has been sitting at the dealership service dept lot for two weeks now and would probably stay there for a lot longer, BECAUSE OF A F***ING JUMP START!!!!!!!
