Engine rebuild for future whipple?

[MilehighRam]

Ive always wanted a turbo/supercharged engine and the way the industry is going, it seems everything will be electric before long. While im ok with electric, in my opinion, theres a lot that needs to be worked out (charging reliability, towing range among others). That being said, i think ill hold onto my 5th gen ram for quite a while; its certainly my favorite having owned a 4th and 3rd gen.

Having owned many vehicles, ive never owned a forced induction one. Im probably going to go for the 5th gen whipple at a low boost (6 lbs) and eventually build the truck up around it so i can go higher with the boost. My main concern is reliability; we live in the Denver metro area and frequently take road trips to and through the mountains, so im ok backing off the extremes and not trying to get every single HP out of this motor. We occasionally rent a travel trailer, so we'd still need to tow. Yes, leaving the truck as is would be the most reliable but thats not the path im going down.

I figure ill probably have a (still to be determined) local shop here do the install and tune but am also considering having the engine rebuilt and beefed up to support the boost. Ive got 60k miles on the truck now and figure ill probably be ready about this time next year to do the whipple install. I'm interested on opinions on rebuilding the engine prior to boosting for added reliability with forged internals, maybe even a stroker kit. I'd be fine to have a garage rebuild for $3k +/- with forged internals but could be swayed into a few grand more if its worth it on reliability/hp gains.

I dont plan on taking this to the drag strip. Ever. Just want more fun when i press the pedal and to regain some lost power from living at altitude (our home is about 6000' in elevation). I dont pay for my gas, my company does (typical in my industry), so im not concerned about any additional fuel costs even though its not much. Ive considered buying a TRX but dont feel like starting payments all over again for something the sells for over MSRP (plus i dont like the reduced towing capacity and really do love my truck).

All this being said, any advice? Rebuild the engine? Go with a stroker kit? Just wait until later when the truck has some higher mileage?

For anyone thats done a supercharger, did you have anything in your truck no longer function (buttons switches, check engine lights) after going with a F/I mod? Would you do it again?

 

[Jmac509]

I don't see anyone else biting on this so I figured I would give you a reply.

In my opinion, I think your best bet would be to get a TRX. If something breaks you have a known, engineered, quantity your working with and a warranty at the start. I would see if Mark Dodge offers the 12% off MSRP on the TRX orders.

I think your under estimating the total time and cost of adding an aftermarket supercharger to your truck. I also think it's unrealistic to expect it to be reliable for towing. I would expect this to be a never ending cycle of chasing reliability.

I would love to hear from someone who has gone down this road with a 5th gen and listen to their experiences though. If no one else replies and you decide to go down this road definitely report back with your findings!

 

[MilehighRam]

I don't see anyone else biting on this so I figured I would give you a reply.

In my opinion, I think your best bet would be to get a TRX. If something breaks you have a known, engineered, quantity your working with and a warranty at the start. I would see if Mark Dodge offers the 12% off MSRP on the TRX orders.

I think your under estimating the total time and cost of adding an aftermarket supercharger to your truck. I also think it's unrealistic to expect it to be reliable for towing. I would expect this to be a never ending cycle of chasing reliability.

I would love to hear from someone who has gone down this road with a 5th gen and listen to their experiences though. If no one else replies and you decide to go down this road definitely report back with your findings!

These are the things that concern me. Hoping some that have gone this route (even on a previous rig) can chime in with their experiences.

 

[BowDown]

How much money for you have set aside for this?
How much set aside for repairs? You're doing more than a bolt on and you're looking for what sounds like a couple extra hundred HP.

You should probably expect 10k by the time you've got the install done including supporting mods that most don't factor in.

You should also understand that failures will no longer be a few $100 repairs. At this power level, repairs will be 10k at a time, blown trans will eat that up.
A TRX may ultimately be cheaper in the long run

 

[theblet]

I’d contact whipper, pro charger, etc to see what they offer for a stock hemi bolt on option. If you have warranty, make sure it doesnt void it.

More HP will definitely put more wear on anything. Plus you’ll need a tune, and possibly other parts.

If you have the cash you can do whatever you want.

 

[HemiDude]

If you are already considering opening up the engine, why not just go all in on that? New cam and lifters with the MDS delete would definitely be #1 on my list. If you already have 60k on the motor definitely re-ring and replace the bearings while you are in there. @Mopar_maxi has done an impressive job with the NA route, maybe reach out there?

TRX is nice but you are right, it doesn't make sense if you are towing a lot. I have SC aspirations on my list for further down the road, and I'll probably follow your build for extra insight.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Anyone who says a boosted engine can't be reliable has never built/owned a low boost engine. And by low boost, I mean under 10psi.

Your stock 5.7 can handle 6psi all day long with no other mods required, other than a tune. Obviously, doing supporting mods will gain your better efficiency, meaning more power(headers/throttle body). If you want to go higher than 6psi, I'd definitely rebuild the motor, open ring gaps, 6.4 lifters and a new cam. Long tube headers and a ported throttle body. if you want to go over 10-12lbs of boost then start worrying about forged internals, porting your heads, different intake manifold.

As far as options for boost, I know a guy making adapters to bolt a Hellcat SC to the 5.7l. Whipple is a good choice, as well as procharger. Depending on if you want a screw type or centrifugal SC. Both have plusses and minuses

 

[MilehighRam]

Part of me mentioning this on here is to get all kinds of view points on forced induction options. Im in my mid 40s and make great money; its not necessarily the cost of all this, its understanding the full scope of whats at hand. Im reading articles and taking notes; some things I thought would be issues with this venture arent, and other things i didnt consider previously need to be taken into consideration.

I love thr truck I have; just want a little more umph. Why would i want to trade in a truck that has just about every option ram offered at the time when all im looking for is a little better acceleration and fun at elevation (hp loss is noticeable higher up in the Rockies).

I'd like a very mild boost; say 6psi. if changing out a pully to, say 10psi requires x, y & z to be done, great, i can factor that into the decision making process and either do it now or understand what that takes and grow into it down the road if i want more power.

Side note: Ive emailed Whipple on an etorque option and they said it should be available in the next 3-4 months.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I would look into doing a flex fuel tune as well. Run E85 when you really want the extra power, but still be able to run 91 every day and still use the boost. Not sure what Colorado gas stations have for higher ethanol blends. There are a few different piggy back options for doing flex fuel without needing to completely redo fuel system or switch to a stand alone fuel management.

 

[BowDown]

Part of me mentioning this on here is to get all kinds of view points on forced induction options. Im in my mid 40s and make great money; its not necessarily the cost of all this, its understanding the full scope of whats at hand. Im reading articles and taking notes; some things I thought would be issues with this venture arent, and other things i didnt consider previously need to be taken into consideration.

I love thr truck I have; just want a little more umph. Why would i want to trade in a truck that has just about every option ram offered at the time when all im looking for is a little better acceleration and fun at elevation (hp loss is noticeable higher up in the Rockies).

I'd like a very mild boost; say 6psi. if changing out a pully to, say 10psi requires x, y & z to be done, great, i can factor that into the decision making process and either do it now or understand what that takes and grow into it down the road if i want more power.

Side note: Ive emailed Whipple on an etorque option and they said it should be available in the next 3-4 months.

Even at 6si, you're going to need cooling mods and likely trans help. Will the stock components work? Yes but, say the cooling, you'll get hot after a few pulls. The trans, you'll likely eventually overrun the clutches even with a good trans tune. You'd be better off with the TRX trans and cooling.
As for 6psi itself, Lol, everyone says 6 psi/X horsepower is all I need til they taste more more then its a thirst that doesn't end.

Me, Id honestly go turbo(s) over blowers. Blowers always eventually run into belt issues and turbos are far more efficient. More expensive up front but better IMO. You could easily modify this Helion kit for the 5.7 intake

Hellion 2021+ Ram TRX Twin Turbo System - Hellion Turbo

System now in stock!

www.hellionturbo.com

I would be a bit concerned about the 5.7 stock intake though, even at 6psi

 

[Mopar_maxi]

Very little good advice in here unfortunately.

A whipple at factory boost (6-7psi) with a good fuel system, long tube headers and a custom tune by someone who specializes in these trucks will be very fun and reliable. I prefer Jay Greene for all my tuning.

You could run 10-12 psi with MMX drop in forged pistons and rods with a good fuel system and of course tuning.

None of it is possible though without custom tuning. Preloaded tunes will never be safe or efficient.

As far as a fuel system. You will need at minimum a boost-a-pump and at least 1000cc injectors.

Forced induction gets expensive pretty quickly and there’s always a risk involved. I prefer to stay NA. It’s a ton of fun and little to No worries.

 

[Darksteel165]

Very little good advice in here unfortunately.

A whipple at factory boost (6-7psi) with a good fuel system, long tube headers and a custom tune by someone who specializes in these trucks will be very fun and reliable. I prefer Jay Greene for all my tuning.

Silly question, does he pay or demand you to say who does your tuning?
He told me to remove my posts on this forum detailing my experience (good and bad) last week when I asked to get my TCM tune updated as it no longer worked (offered to pay as there might be some work needed to do for the updated tune). He outright refused to do any work for me anymore and demanded some "answers" and a "response on that post". he will definitely be getting a response but I bet not what he is looking for with that attitude.

Diablosport CMR tuners

Anyone know who does good tunes that actually responds to people? I tried Hemifever but they either aren't in business anymore or are too busy to respond to inquires (which would be a problem if a tune was causing a problem). I'm told there's someone named "Jay Greene" but I don't really use...

5thgenrams.com

 

[GMetal]

Id say "easiest" is to buy a finished TRX if you want it to work and not go into a shop for a while. Good shops are busy. Technically it is illegal according to the EPA to modify a vehicle in any way from factory. Many tuners are being shut down and fined over this making it tough to find legit tuners that arent impossible to find. A basic bolt on Vortech or Procharger setup will be $8k plus install. Then you need it tuned. The transmission has torque management to save itself. The ZF8 8HP75 has its limitatioons as well at 550lb/ft of torque. The ZF8 in the TRX is the 8HP95 which is rated to 740lb/ft. A supercharged crate engine will run $30k from Mopar or Edelbrock for 800HP. A built engine will be in the same range too. So at the end of the day you need to consider your time and the final outcome. About $15k for an extra 100-150 HP after all is said and done.

 

[BowDown]

Very little good advice in here unfortunately.

A whipple at factory boost (6-7psi) with a good fuel system, long tube headers and a custom tune by someone who specializes in these trucks will be very fun and reliable. I prefer Jay Greene for all my tuning.

You could run 10-12 psi with MMX drop in forged pistons and rods with a good fuel system and of course tuning.

None of it is possible though without custom tuning. Preloaded tunes will never be safe or efficient.

As far as a fuel system. You will need at minimum a boost-a-pump and at least 1000cc injectors.

Forced induction gets expensive pretty quickly and there’s always a risk involved. I prefer to stay NA. It’s a ton of fun and little to No worries.

Thats not true, most of the information presented has been both valid and good but ultimately, the OP needs to research for themselves and speak to a/the tuner shop for more a detailed answers on your goals but for the most part, everything posted has been accurate enough to get them going. Theres a few points that I disagree with but that doesn't make them inaccurate. It all depends upon what he wants to do with the truck; how far he wants to take it, how far he realistically can take it and how far he will take it.

As for N/A being a ton of fun and little to know worries, only if you aren't making power. To me, anything less than 550 whp isn't power so its perspective/subjective and anything over 550 whp certainly isn't cheap. This comes from someone that's done it many times with the current platform being LSX which is far cheaper than Gen III HEMI's. Nothing about this is inexpensive and unless you invest some $$$$, it wont be reliable if its making power

OP, you'd do good to heed this diagram

Pick two

 

[BowDown]

Id say "easiest" is to buy a finished TRX if you want it to work and not go into a shop for a while. Good shops are busy. Technically it is illegal according to the EPA to modify a vehicle in any way from factory. Many tuners are being shut down and fined over this making it tough to find legit tuners that arent impossible to find. A basic bolt on Vortech or Procharger setup will be $8k plus install. Then you need it tuned. The transmission has torque management to save itself. The ZF8 8HP75 has its limitatioons as well at 550lb/ft of torque. The ZF8 in the TRX is the 8HP95 which is rated to 740lb/ft. A supercharged crate engine will run $30k from Mopar or Edelbrock for 800HP. A built engine will be in the same range too. So at the end of the day you need to consider your time and the final outcome. About $15k for an extra 100-150 HP after all is said and done.

Emphasis being on finding a good shop too. Do your homework. Is the shop a real tuner/fab/problem solving shop or a tuner/bolt on shop? This will without question be your biggest issue.
I've been through most of the LS shops in North Texas and most suck and cut numerous corners, even the big name shops that you'd not expect, at this point, I'm doing the work minus the engine build. Good shops exist but they are hard to get into especially with a small $10-15k build

GMetal is 1000% correct in this statement

So at the end of the day you need to consider your time and the final outcome. About $15k for an extra 100-150 HP after all is said and done.

That's a decision you'll need to research based on the shops near you.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Even at 6si, you're going to need cooling mods and likely trans help. Will the stock components work? Yes but, say the cooling, you'll get hot after a few pulls. The trans, you'll likely eventually overrun the clutches even with a good trans tune. You'd be better off with the TRX trans and cooling.
As for 6psi itself, Lol, everyone says 6 psi/X horsepower is all I need til they taste more more then its a thirst that doesn't end.

Me, Id honestly go turbo(s) over blowers. Blowers always eventually run into belt issues and turbos are far more efficient. More expensive up front but better IMO. You could easily modify this Helion kit for the 5.7 intake

Hellion 2021+ Ram TRX Twin Turbo System - Hellion Turbo

System now in stock!

www.hellionturbo.com

I would be a bit concerned about the 5.7 stock intake though, even at 6psi

If you need extra cooling help only running 6psi, then you have a tune issue. The stock cooling system can more than keep up.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Very little good advice in here unfortunately.

That's a very subjective opinion, depending on what you are referring to

 

[BowDown]

If you need extra cooling help only running 6psi, then you have a tune issue. The stock cooling system can more than keep up.

Not in Texas. 6 psi will cause more heat and in a hotter climate or a thin air climate you could have cooling issues however, my mention of cooling was only an example of a supporting mod

 

[MilehighRam]

Not in Texas. 6 psi will cause more heat and in a hotter climate or a thin air climate you could have cooling issues however, my mention of cooling was only an example of a supporting mod

are we talking colling for the SC (whipple) or engine since they both have their own cooling systems?

 

[BowDown]

are we talking colling for the SC (whipple) or engine since they both have their own cooling systems?

Engine cooling.
Whipple has an intercooler brick, that only cools the intake charge to bring down your IAT/charge temp. The air your engine intakes will go from 10° or so over ambient to 140-150°, that creates additional engine heat especially when you're beating on it.

You'll likely need an external oil cooler also. I use external 2 pass Setrab 24" oil cooler and still see oil go up from 180° to 220°-240° when driving hard and my car is NA.

Setrab COM Dual Pass Heavy Duty Oil Cooler

Setrab COM Dual Pass Heavy Duty Oil Cooler

www.improvedracing.com