Anyone ACTUALLY running 5w-30 or even 10w-30? Thoughts? Experience? Any REAL TRUTH to throwing a code running higher weight oil (no conjecture please)

[Cbty2050]

That's what I figured. It was your opinion, rather than facts. I just needed to verify. It would be different if you had a copy of a FCA study that showed FCA was willing to accept a higher failure rate, just to make a very small gain in mpg's.

I'm not willing to buy into the conspiracy theory that FCA would change to an oil grade that's detrimental to engine longevity, just to eek out another .001 mpg.

I addressed your comment about the oil filter location in an earlier post. That location was determined well before the 5th Gen Ram was born. I'm sure it's quite expensive to redesign the engine block to relocate the filter. The current spot is inconvenient, but it's free and proven. They could add a remote filter kit to our trucks, but that would just introduce one more failure point.

You need to do what makes you happy. Most of us will follow the manufacturers recommendation. Some are stuck in the past, thinking thicker oil is better, because that's what they have been using since the 70's. It's up to you, but the safe bet is going with the manufacturers recommended viscosity.

Jeep Grand Cherokee L 5.7 hemi oil filter is located on the driver's side now.... they relocated it as part of the oil pan.

 

[Mountain Whiskey]

Okay, sorry. Let me try again. I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to as "my theory", so I'll address each of my statements - maybe that will help. First, though here's the statement verbatim from the manual regarding the 5w20 oil recommendation.
"This engine oil improves low temperature starting and vehicle fuel economy."
So, the definition of improve: "achieve or produce something better than" definition straight from dictionary.
"This engine oil" is the 5w20. Now, better than what?? The what is the 5w30 that they used to recommend. Interestingly, the 5w has not changed, and that is the "winter" viscosity or "low temperature starting" viscosity, so going from 5w20 to 5w30 isn't changing too much with regard to low temperature starting - as they suggest. (A 0w20 oil which is recommended starting 2022, that DOES affect lower temperature starting - but we're talking 5w20). In general for any given engine, more time is accumulated in a fully warmed up state, and that's when the 20 or 30 viscosity comes in to play. So since the argument for "low temperature starting" is gone, all that's left is for ECONOMY - which is my ONE reason in my statement below.
"Yes, they do it for ONE reason ... and that is to slightly improve their reported mpg (CAFE)."
My next statement was: "Nothing (okay, much less) to do with "what's best for the engine".
This is my opinion because I don't believe that going from a 30 to a 20, is doing anything that would be called "best for the engine." I can only prove that or base that on the fact that I haven't seen any Technical bulletins for older 5.7L Hemi's owners saying stop using 5w30 and switch to 5w20, so if they really had something that was better for the engines (5w20), I hope they would pass it on to all of their customers (TSB or ??), not just keep it for new customers, right? (Unless I missed a TSB or ?? - that's possible). Further, I did check (via phone) with TWO local Ram Service departments - to see if there's any global change for all 5.7L hemis with regard to oil viscosity, and they both told me "If your engine oil cap and associated documentation says 5w30, then use 5w30 - if it says 5w20, then use 5w20". That was it. I could call more Service departments but .. I might (probably) get the same answer. I think that's the only safe answer for them.
My third statement "They're probably giggling at how successful they've been at fooling so many people." - Well, you've got me there, I have no easy way to prove that. It's truly my opinion, and it was kind of a joke or an aside. Whether they're giggling or not would certainly be hard to prove.
And my last statement "Remember, these are the same people that chose where to mount the oil filter on the 5.7L hemi."
Well FCA/RAM are in fact the same people that chose where to mount the oil filter and are now changing the oil viscosity recommendations. Obviously the timing is different, but they are the same people, same company, etc.
So, that's where I'm coming from with my post. If I'm inaccurate or wrong on any of this, please tell me - I'm always interested in learning more, being more accurate, etc. - my post just described what I've observed and/or read.
I also am hoping to do the best/right thing to keep my 5.7L hemi running strong and lasting long!
Sorry for this long explanation.
Thanks. - John

 

[MrRick1971]

I've been using Royal Purple 5w30HPS oil since 1,500 miles in my 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie 5.7L Hemi. I also do 5,000 mile oil changes. The truck now has 29k. No issues or codes/CEL of any kind EVER came on saying I'm using incorrect oil. MDS works just fine. I'm the type of believer that believes the thinner the oil the more friction and wear goes on inside the engine. Car companies are recommending thinner oil just to meet EPA / MPG requirements. It's all political BS.

 

[NoMoreV4]

I just sold my 2019 Laramie with 27000 miles. All it seen was 5w-30 Ultra Platinum. I dont believe the viscosity reasoning behind the MDS and having to use 5-20 or 0-20. I had TWO SRT 6.4L Challengers. One with MDS and one without. BOTH motors required PUP 0w-40. There is a guy in Youtube, Engineering Explained, he may actually be a M/E. Watch the oil videos he does.

Even though the manufacture never gives specific reasoning behind viscosity requirements, if you read between the lines, and just think about it, It makes sense as to why. Manufactures are getting slammed by the EPA to meet STUPID fleet fuel consumption regulations. Engineers are scrambling to get the MPG numbers up. Manufacturers are getting fined. Every damn vehicle they build that doesn't meet the stupid liberal requirement, they get whacked. Sometimes you see the "gas guzzler tax" and sometimes you dont see it in the price. But let me tell you, it is PASSED on to the buyer.

Building motors with tighter tolerances can use a bit thinner oil. So, then you get the person who wont change there oil for 10k miles. Thinner oils have thinner sheer strength/surface. So if you over extend, you get excessive wear. The lifters in the FCA 5.7L need constant lubrication. The needle bearings fail inside the roller. Usually excessive idling. It is all over the internet.

It can get hot as balls in NC. My new 2022 will get 5w-30 just like my 2019. I really doubt any dealer is going to ask what weight your using. Change the oil every 5k. Don't be cheap. These motors wont fail if cared for.

My daughter has an Avenger 3.6L with 109K. She put 50K miles on it. I change the oil with Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 even though I should be using 5w-20. The manual says you can use the 30. That motor is so quiet I cant hear it run. It will obliterate the front tires at will. 20 weight is too light for my preference. Granted, I would not use 50 in it either....

 

[User_3336]

I know this is an older thread, and I'll get slapped silly. But, today on my 2023, I got rid of that watery 0w-20, and replaced it with some nice new Pennzoil Platinum 5-30. Engine purrs like a kitten. Oddly, quieter than the 0w-20.

That crap oil that came out of the engine was absolute of a watery consistency.

I firmly believe this 0w-20 is some EPA b/s to try to get #'s to look better, so manufacturers have to adhere and label like that.

I drove about 10 miles after I changed the oil, and NEVER got any kind of MDS fault code (Normally, I just turn MDS off after I'm up to speed, but I wanted to see if the 5w-30 faulted like others have said). I swear the truck runs better now.

Also, noting that my oil pressure was back up around 50-51 psi (which is where it has been in previous year models that used 5w-20)..... Instead of around 45-47 using water oil. At idle I was around 35psi, instead of around 25-27psi using water oil.

I'm happy, my engine seen happIER.

 

[silver billet]

I know this is an older thread, and I'll get slapped silly. But, today on my 2023, I got rid of that watery 0w-20, and replaced it with some nice new Pennzoil Platinum 5-30. Engine purrs like a kitten. Oddly, quieter than the 0w-20.

That crap oil that came out of the engine was absolute of a watery consistency.

I firmly believe this 0w-20 is some EPA b/s to try to get #'s to look better, so manufacturers have to adhere and label like that.

I drove about 10 miles after I changed the oil, and NEVER got any kind of MDS fault code (Normally, I just turn MDS off after I'm up to speed, but I wanted to see if the 5w-30 faulted like others have said). I swear the truck runs better now.

Also, noting that my oil pressure was back up around 50-51 psi (which is where it has been in previous year models that used 5w-20)..... Instead of around 45-47 using water oil. At idle I was around 35psi, instead of around 25-27psi using water oil.

I'm happy, my engine seen happIER.

The whole "too thick for MDS/VVT" thing is bogus. I drove with 0w-40 for about 7 months and never experienced a single fault code, nor did my engine feel any different.

 

[RAL]

I know this is an older thread, and I'll get slapped silly. But, today on my 2023, I got rid of that watery 0w-20, and replaced it with some nice new Pennzoil Platinum 5-30. Engine purrs like a kitten. Oddly, quieter than the 0w-20.

That crap oil that came out of the engine was absolute of a watery consistency.

I firmly believe this 0w-20 is some EPA b/s to try to get #'s to look better, so manufacturers have to adhere and label like that.

I drove about 10 miles after I changed the oil, and NEVER got any kind of MDS fault code (Normally, I just turn MDS off after I'm up to speed, but I wanted to see if the 5w-30 faulted like others have said). I swear the truck runs better now.

Also, noting that my oil pressure was back up around 50-51 psi (which is where it has been in previous year models that used 5w-20)..... Instead of around 45-47 using water oil. At idle I was around 35psi, instead of around 25-27psi using water oil.

I'm happy, my engine seen happIER.

Use whatever oil you would like to use, it's your truck. But so long as your truck has sufficient oil pressure at hot idle and when driving generally, having surplus oil pressure is of no benefit to the motor. It does no harm either (unless excessive, and your figures are not excessive).

There is no question that the drive towards "lighter" viscosities is driven by CAFE standards, but at the same time, be aware as well that a manufacturer would be a complete fool to specify an oil that does not maintain adequate pressure and lubrication under a very wide spectrum of operating conditions, because that will lead to high warranty claims and dissatisfied customers, both of which are absolute no-no's in the automobile business, particularly if you want to stay in business. The synthetic oils available today will maintain appropriate viscosity and lubrication through a tremendously grueling range of temperatures, that is why most of these conversations are academic if you are comparing a 5w20 to a 5w30, for example. For me, if the truck is under warranty, it comes down to not wanting to have the potential aggravation of an argument if there is ever an issue with the motor, they ask for receipts, and they see the owner used an oil viscosity that was not "recommended." Now in the real world, the chances of an 0w30 or 5w30 causing an issue (assuming the oil is full and clean, and a reputable brand) is almost zero. But again, why take that chance when the chance of a 5w20, kept full and clean with a reputable brand, is also almost zero. The reality is that if your truck is well cared for and you don't drive like a lunatic, most of the other components will wear out, either mechanically or cosmetically (e.g., seats, paint) before the motor is shot and that is why people replace vehicles. Our family has a construction business and my dad regularly keeps his pick-ups to 300k. No fancy oils, just clean and full with what is specified. The motors never wear out, but the frames rust (he plows), and everything else on the truck starts to go. So going crazy about oil viscosity isn't worth it. What does add years to the trucks is thorough cleaning of the undersides after each storm - but that's a different discussion.

A final and related thought is that people in the discussion talk about "tolerances" in a motor. Tolerances are generally not relevant to oil viscosity discussions - that term just refers to how consist and "tight" a manufactured product is. What is relevant to oil viscosity discussion are main bearing clearances. Main bearing clearances are specific to a given motor. The main bearing clearances, and expected range operating temperature in the block and the sump and are the main drivers of oil viscosity spec. The reason I point his out is not to be a wise-guy, but to point out someone giving you advise on oil viscosity based upon tolerances is not well informed, and you should take their advice accordingly. Put differently, however compromised the MOPAR oil viscosity recommendation is, the people making it are far more knowledgeable, and have skin in the game in the form of reputation and potential warranty costs. People spouting off on the internet do not have such an interest, and I would bet you a fine dinner of your choice that they have never disassembled or re-assembled a motor.

HTH, and good luck with your truck!

 

[User_3336]

Use whatever oil you would like to use, it's your truck. But so long as your truck has sufficient oil pressure at hot idle and when driving generally, having surplus oil pressure is of no benefit to the motor. It does no harm either (unless excessive, and your figures are not excessive).

There is no question that the drive towards "lighter" viscosities is driven by CAFE standards, but at the same time, be aware as well that a manufacturer would be a complete fool to specify an oil that does not maintain adequate pressure and lubrication under a very wide spectrum of operating conditions, because that will lead to high warranty claims and dissatisfied customers, both of which are absolute no-no's in the automobile business, particularly if you want to stay in business. The synthetic oils available today will maintain appropriate viscosity and lubrication through a tremendously grueling range of temperatures, that is why most of these conversations are academic if you are comparing a 5w20 to a 5w30, for example. For me, if the truck is under warranty, it comes down to not wanting to have the potential aggravation of an argument if there is ever an issue with the motor, they ask for receipts, and they see the owner used an oil viscosity that was not "recommended." Now in the real world, the chances of an 0w30 or 5w30 causing an issue (assuming the oil is full and clean, and a reputable brand) is almost zero. But again, why take that chance when the chance of a 5w20, kept full and clean with a reputable brand, is also almost zero. The reality is that if your truck is well cared for and you don't drive like a lunatic, most of the other components will wear out, either mechanically or cosmetically (e.g., seats, paint) before the motor is shot and that is why people replace vehicles. Our family has a construction business and my dad regularly keeps his pick-ups to 300k. No fancy oils, just clean and full with what is specified. The motors never wear out, but the frames rust (he plows), and everything else on the truck starts to go. So going crazy about oil viscosity isn't worth it. What does add years to the trucks is thorough cleaning of the undersides after each storm - but that's a different discussion.

A final and related thought is that people in the discussion talk about "tolerances" in a motor. Tolerances are generally not relevant to oil viscosity discussions - that term just refers to how consist and "tight" a manufactured product is. What is relevant to oil viscosity discussion are main bearing clearances. Main bearing clearances are specific to a given motor. The main bearing clearances, and expected range operating temperature in the block and the sump and are the main drivers of oil viscosity spec. The reason I point his out is not to be a wise-guy, but to point out someone giving you advise on oil viscosity based upon tolerances is not well informed, and you should take their advice accordingly. Put differently, however compromised the MOPAR oil viscosity recommendation is, the people making it are far more knowledgeable, and have skin in the game in the form of reputation and potential warranty costs. People spouting off on the internet do not have such an interest, and I would bet you a fine dinner of your choice that they have never disassembled or re-assembled a motor.

HTH, and good luck with your truck!

If the engine blows up because I used 5w-30, and warranty work is denied (don't they have to prove that?), That's something I'll have to deal with and suffer the consequences. For now, the truck seems much happier!

 

[RAL]

Apologies then for posting something that attempted to give you a "no BS" viewpoint on what you are doing. Sometimes you actually need to read to learn. Good luck with your truck.

 

[silver billet]

If the engine blows up because I used 5w-30, and warranty work is denied (don't they have to prove that?), That's something I'll have to deal with and suffer the consequences. For now, the truck seems much happier!

I've never come across a single report of hemi warranty being denied on the sole basis of viscosity. And the reason for that is because it's not physically possible for a 30w to cause damage where the same oil in a 20w wouldn't. Doesn't matter what engine you're talking about, oil goes through a huge change in thickness from -20c to 120c (typical operating temps of a hemi in Canada in the winter).

The change in thickness due to temperature is absolutely massive compared to the chanage in thickness due to viscosity. If a 30w damages the engine, a 20w absolutely would as well.

 

[BowDown]

If the engine blows up because I used 5w-30, and warranty work is denied (don't they have to prove that?), That's something I'll have to deal with and suffer the consequences. For now, the truck seems much happier!

Yes but that'd be a tough road on your part if the service dept chose to go that route because you are deviating from what is recommended. Will it blow up from 5w30? Not likely

 

[BowDown]

Use whatever oil you would like to use, it's your truck. But so long as your truck has sufficient oil pressure at hot idle and when driving generally, having surplus oil pressure is of no benefit to the motor. It does no harm either (unless excessive, and your figures are not excessive).

There is no question that the drive towards "lighter" viscosities is driven by CAFE standards, but at the same time, be aware as well that a manufacturer would be a complete fool to specify an oil that does not maintain adequate pressure and lubrication under a very wide spectrum of operating conditions, because that will lead to high warranty claims and dissatisfied customers, both of which are absolute no-no's in the automobile business, particularly if you want to stay in business. The synthetic oils available today will maintain appropriate viscosity and lubrication through a tremendously grueling range of temperatures, that is why most of these conversations are academic if you are comparing a 5w20 to a 5w30, for example. For me, if the truck is under warranty, it comes down to not wanting to have the potential aggravation of an argument if there is ever an issue with the motor, they ask for receipts, and they see the owner used an oil viscosity that was not "recommended." Now in the real world, the chances of an 0w30 or 5w30 causing an issue (assuming the oil is full and clean, and a reputable brand) is almost zero. But again, why take that chance when the chance of a 5w20, kept full and clean with a reputable brand, is also almost zero. The reality is that if your truck is well cared for and you don't drive like a lunatic, most of the other components will wear out, either mechanically or cosmetically (e.g., seats, paint) before the motor is shot and that is why people replace vehicles. Our family has a construction business and my dad regularly keeps his pick-ups to 300k. No fancy oils, just clean and full with what is specified. The motors never wear out, but the frames rust (he plows), and everything else on the truck starts to go. So going crazy about oil viscosity isn't worth it. What does add years to the trucks is thorough cleaning of the undersides after each storm - but that's a different discussion.

A final and related thought is that people in the discussion talk about "tolerances" in a motor. Tolerances are generally not relevant to oil viscosity discussions - that term just refers to how consist and "tight" a manufactured product is. What is relevant to oil viscosity discussion are main bearing clearances. Main bearing clearances are specific to a given motor. The main bearing clearances, and expected range operating temperature in the block and the sump and are the main drivers of oil viscosity spec. The reason I point his out is not to be a wise-guy, but to point out someone giving you advise on oil viscosity based upon tolerances is not well informed, and you should take their advice accordingly. Put differently, however compromised the MOPAR oil viscosity recommendation is, the people making it are far more knowledgeable, and have skin in the game in the form of reputation and potential warranty costs. People spouting off on the internet do not have such an interest, and I would bet you a fine dinner of your choice that they have never disassembled or re-assembled a motor.

HTH, and good luck with your truck!

This

 

[IvoryHemi]

The whole "too thick for MDS/VVT" thing is bogus. I drove with 0w-40 for about 7 months and never experienced a single fault code, nor did my engine feel any different.

Was planning on switching to M1 0w40 this summer to see if it helps with consumption as my Hemi has been eating about 1 qt of 5w30 every 3k mi while towing.

Have you been happy with the 0w40?

 

[silver billet]

Was planning on switching to M1 0w40 this summer to see if it helps with consumption as my Hemi has been eating about 1 qt of 5w30 every 3k mi while towing.

Have you been happy with the 0w40?

Dave (the CEO of HPL) says its a really good oil for the price. It is also pretty highly valued on BITOG. I wasn't necessarily "unhappy" with it, but I'm willing to pay more if I feel I'm getting more so I changed over to HPL after that.

It doesn't have a whole lot of moly, so I spiked it with LG, but that never sat well with me as I prefer to buy an oil that is very carefully balanced and formulated as opposed to trying to improve something with additives.

If I didn't know about HPL it would probably be in my engine now, either that or Redline but I have no idea what they (RL) did to their old formula and if the new one is better/worse.

What oil (brand + weight) are you running now with the consumption?

 

[IvoryHemi]

What oil (brand + weight) are you running now with the consumption?

It eats both Valvoline synthetic 5w30 and Mobil 1 5w30.

I bought some Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 to try but I ending up using Redline 0w30 this winter.. but I do all my towing in the summer so I don’t know how either would do.

 

[silver billet]

Does Mobil produce more than one 0w-40? I forget the details on that, I know I looked/purchased the FS "Euro" formula.

It's a 40 weight when new but is better viewed as a thick 30 weight since it shears down pretty quickly.

 

[Mountain Whiskey]

For those who are putting different oil in your engine from summer to winter, why? Because of a colder or warmer air temperature?

My engine oil and coolant temp reads the same whether it is in the teens or upper 90s. It stays very constant.

I put in Kirkland 0w20 mixed with some Shell 5w30 just this weekend. It's what I had laying around the garage. My money is on my truck surviving until the next oil change.

 

[User_3336]

I put in Kirkland 0w20 mixed with some Shell 5w30 just this weekend. It's what I had laying around the garage. My money is on my truck surviving until the next oil change.

I don't think you have anything to worry about . . . Mine's got 7 quarts of Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30.

 

[Mountain Whiskey]

I don't think you have anything to worry about . . . Mine's got 7 quarts of Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30.

Yea, the oil wars on here crack me up!

 

[SD Rebel]

Yea, the oil wars on here crack me up!

It's tiring, just do what you want, no one is going to convince each other otherwise anyways. In the scheme of things, neither side will likely have any real differences in longevity in comparison, not that we will ever know anyways.