AirBags - Timber Grove vs AirLift 5000 Ultimate Plus+

[frisby5]

So what would be better timber grove oer the airbags that go inside the springs ? This is the first i heard them having issues.

 

[Rock Crawler]

So what would be better timber grove oer the airbags that go inside the springs ? This is the first i heard them having issues.

2 different products. Depends on what outcome you are looking for. The bags that go inside the springs do not raise and lower the back of the truck. They expand inside the spring to keep the spring from compressing as much. You would need to add air to them before you add load to the truck. If you add the load before airing up the bags, the springs will compress causing the rear of the truck to lower. Adding air after the fact will not do anything because the bag is just going to expand inside the compressed spring. The Timber Grove bags can be aired up and down after the load is added to the truck. This will raise and lower the back of the truck and allow you to adjust the rear height to whatever you want. Timber Grove is an excellent product and I highly recommend them. Product support is the best you will find in the business.

 

[frisby5]

2 different products. Depends on what outcome you are looking for. The bags that go inside the springs do not raise and lower the back of the truck. They expand inside the spring to keep the spring from compressing as much. You would need to add air to them before you add load to the truck. If you add the load before airing up the bags, the springs will compress causing the rear of the truck to lower. Adding air after the fact will not do anything because the bag is just going to expand inside the compressed spring. The Timber Grove bags can be aired up and down after the load is added to the truck. This will raise and lower the back of the truck and allow you to adjust the rear height to whatever you want. Timber Grove is an excellent product and I highly recommend them. Product support is the best you will find in the business.

What is these issues iam reading about in this thread, about making it a rougher ride ?

 

[Rock Crawler]

What is these issues iam reading about in this thread, about making it a rougher ride ?

Anything you add to increase support will affect the ride. To help keep the bags from getting damaged, the manufacturers recommend that you keep a minimum amount of air in them. This is usually only 5 psi or so. This adds a little bit of resistance to the trucks suspension to move up and down as it normally would. I had the Air Lift 1000 HD bags for a while and did not care for them. I found they affected the ride too much. It felt very stiff with only 5 psi in them. I now have Timber Grove bags, but my truck is lowered and I have the CRM’s which replace the factory springs. So, I do not have personal experience with the ASAM’s (assist bags).

 

[silver billet]

Had my Timber Grove setup for over 1.5 years. Haul a minimum of 1000# tools and material every where I go (never leaves the truck). Haul trailers with everything from scissor lifts to large transformers that push the GVW of my truck to the max. Zero issues. Really quick google search and i didn't find frame a mention of damage claims. it would be interesting to know what to look for.

I get what you're saying but your lack of issues doesn't cancel out those that bent their frames. Some get lucky, some don't.

I can point to an exact thread on a different forum but I won't because these 2 forums don't really like the "cross polinization" shall we say. Just google it, I assure you the reports are there.

The physics in a nutshell: the stiffer the suspension helper, the more force applied directly to one point on the frame which gets hit repeatedly over and over and eventually that fractures and cracks/bends.

Our soft coils don't pummel the frame in that spot, they take the force and soak it up. Take this to the extreme (to understand the physics of it), replace the coil with a thick metal bar that is sitting 1.5 inches off the frame. Now hit every pothole and that bar connects with the frame over and over, nothing soaks up that force anymore so you basically have axle hitting the frame.

Suspension helpers aren't a metal bar, but they aren't exactly a cushy progressive coil either. As I said, you may get lucky but I'm just posting this here not to troll but to let other knows they may want to think carefully about these helpers.

 

[PurpleRT]

Post the links your referencing too, nobody cares if you post links to other sites, the more information the better.

 

[Rock Crawler]

Timber Grove offers a coil replacement kit (CRM’s) for factory rake/height. This way you would not have to worry about frame damage. Remove springs, install bags, done.

09'-UP RAM 1500 Factory Rake (STAINLESS) Rear CRM (SQ6027994) — Timber Grove Enterprises, LLC

100% stainless steel bolt-in design that replaces factory coils with 10,000+ lbs. internally dampened Firestone rolling lobe air springs. At ride height air springs consume approximately 28 PSI to support the truck. They provide awesome adjustability, ride quality and off road articulation. Kit inc

timbergroveenterprises.com

 

[tyromeo55]

I get what you're saying but your lack of issues doesn't cancel out those that bent their frames. Some get lucky, some don't.

I can point to an exact thread on a different forum but I won't because these 2 forums don't really like the "cross polinization" shall we say. Just google it, I assure you the reports are there.

I get what your saying. But, As an extreme use case myself who cant find a single mention of it elsewhere I'm rightfully skeptical and interested to see more. Your the only place I've heard this among many positive experiences that can be found. If you can't or won't bring receipts that is not a problem. I'll assume its malarkey and continue to work the truck as I have been. If the frame goes to crap I'll pull the good stuff and throw it in a 55 f100 I have in storage. Wouldn't that be fun.

 

[JerryBsizzle]

I love Steve at Timbergrove, and I think the product quality is exceptional. I don't have any extreme fears or complaints. Only that it rides better without them than with them and I don't need the extra help anymore. Don't be scared if you want to give them a shot.

 

[silver billet]

I get what your saying. But, As an extreme use case myself who cant find a single mention of it elsewhere I'm rightfully skeptical and interested to see more. Your the only place I've heard this among many positive experiences that can be found. If you can't or won't bring receipts that is not a problem. I'll assume its malarkey and continue to work the truck as I have been. If the frame goes to crap I'll pull the good stuff and throw it in a 55 f100 I have in storage. Wouldn't that be fun.

Suit yourself, its not that hard to google the other forum

 

[frisby5]

Timber Grove offers a coil replacement kit (CRM’s) for factory rake/height. This way you would not have to worry about frame damage. Remove springs, install bags, done.

09'-UP RAM 1500 Factory Rake (STAINLESS) Rear CRM (SQ6027994) — Timber Grove Enterprises, LLC

100% stainless steel bolt-in design that replaces factory coils with 10,000+ lbs. internally dampened Firestone rolling lobe air springs. At ride height air springs consume approximately 28 PSI to support the truck. They provide awesome adjustability, ride quality and off road articulation. Kit inc

timbergroveenterprises.com

I have a one inch lift in the back , motofab spacer between spring and axle

 

[Rock Crawler]

I have a one inch lift in the back , motofab spacer between spring and axle

If you wanted the adjustability of the bags, you could remove the spring and spacer, install the bags and air them up to raise it one inch. It will be a stiffer ride though.

 

[frisby5]

If you wanted the adjustability of the bags, you could remove the spring and spacer, install the bags and air them up to raise it one inch. It will be a stiffer ride though.

Yeah thats what i figured i am only towing about 3500 pnds i might just get the airbags that go inbetween springs i dont want a rougher ride

 

[PurpleRT]

Suit yourself, its not that hard to google the other forum

You’ve mentioned this a dozen time and have yet to post a link to any threads/forum where someone has had this issue so others can become aware. It’s always the same response this forum doesn’t like links to other forums etc etc and you can google it yourself. Just link the info let others educate themselves.

 

[silver billet]

You’ve mentioned this a dozen time and have yet to post a link to any threads/forum where someone has had this issue so others can become aware. It’s always the same response this forum doesn’t like links to other forums etc etc and you can google it yourself. Just link the info let others educate themselves.

The mods frown on this, and last time I tried this a number of years ago the links we're adjusted with the domain hidden (I don't remember if it was automatic or censored by a mod). For some reason neither forum likes the other one.

You're just going to have to google this one. It is what it is.

 

[silver billet]

Here is the first post of one such thread, word for word:

I have a 2019 5th gen 1500 Big Horn. I pull a 6x14 V-nosed single axle United enclosed trailer; its under the weight limits, and utilized Timbren SES jounce stops on my Ram. However, one day about 6 weeks ago, I noticed the back to the bed bouncing sloppily while pulling my enclosed trailer. I went to a local body shop and they told me I have a crack in the frame behind my bump stop location on the Frame. Has anyone experienced this before? I called my insurance company and they filed a claim for me under my collision portion. A new frame came from Ram in Michigan, and costs around $4700. The 3rd pic is for reference on my enclosed trailer.

Another quote from a different poster to show that it's not just timbrens, but also air bags:

My frame just cracked with only 54psi in the bags. With a 7x16 enclosed. So apparently it's still causing it to crack. And they said I'll be denied for warranty because I have the airbags in there

I believe there are other reports in that thread, it's the first thread I found from google.

 

[PurpleRT]

Ill link it

Anyone get a cracked frame on a 5th gen 1500 yet?

I have a 2019 5th gen 1500 Big Horn. I pull a 6x14 V-nosed single axle United enclosed trailer; its under the weight limits, and utilized Timbren SES jounce stops on my Ram. However, one day about 6 weeks ago, I noticed the back to the bed bouncing sloppily while pulling my enclosed trailer. I...

www.ramforum.com

I only quickly browsed the first 2 pages of the thread (ill read later) but seems like 2 yep a whole two guys have had an issue and may one with Timbren bump-stops other airlift bags. Just speculation but could of been a to much trailer/to much load/ wrong load distribution issue. Without scale numbers posted I only take the word of a owner that it was not overloaded with a grain of salt. If your truck is constantly riding on bump-stops… thats an issue. Adding a harder material bump-stop like Timbren and with the constant jouncing in the suspension I could see that causing frame damage. The airbag inside of the spring well if its not enough bag or to much trailer and your still hitting the bump-stops constantly well theirs an issue. Could require more air or a stiffer spring to help. Its never going to end well if your riding constantly on the bump-stops. Going the helper spring route and pairing them right I don’t see that causing this mysterious frame damage from a whole 2 people that your referencing.

Edit: not saying your wrong in any way but I wouldn’t hit the panic button of frame damage being an issue from just two people yet especially without any proven documentation other then their word. We probably all seen a guy even just riding around town thats moto “if it fits, it must be within the capacity” while riding the bump-stops in their 90s tacoma carrying 6 washer machines strapped on top of each other, while also hauling 2 refrigerators duct taped on the cabs roof.

 

[tyromeo55]

@silver billet - I kept saying I couldn't find a google result matching what was referenced. Thank you for proving the requested information. ( @PurpleRT should get the most credit seeing he post the link i needed ). Now it can be discussed and we can maybe learn something.

Have you ever installed / owned a 5th gen RAM with any of these products? I'm wondering if you have any 1st hand experience or are just trying to help (?) by parphrasing information you read elsewhere. Not a dig - Honest question

I've never heard of a Timbren bump stop helper. They don't work like the products mentioned in the title or anywhere else in this thread. They are also not what I was talking about in any of my posts. Personally yes, I would steer clear from them. Longer and harder jounce stops that will be constantly slamming the rear of the truck together does not sound like a good idea at all.

I'd like to offer my 2cts on the 2nd "quote" provided. I think my 1st hand experiance and unique use case might offer something of value to anyone wanting to also install the Timber Grove helper bags. I carry around on average 1,000# of crap everywhere I go. If you look at the loading sticker in these trucks most are limited to max loading of 1300# to 1800# (occupants and cargo) so with the one driver (me) I'm getting really close to the upper limits....... With all that weight, to level out the truck I need low 20 psi in the bags. Anyone who puts 54psi would be severly overloading the suspension and frame of the truck. If I was RAM id expect that guy to fit the bill also. Heck I'd expect ram to make me fit the bill for what im asking the truck to do. Use common sense and i'd expect everything to be fine. Maybe it will..... Maybe it won't (but doesnt that apply to everything in life??)

 

[silver billet]

@silver billet - I kept saying I couldn't find a google result matching what was referenced. Thank you for proving the requested information. ( @PurpleRT should get the most credit seeing he post the link i needed ). Now it can be discussed and we can maybe learn something.

Credit? I mentioned the cracking as a "public service", do your homework, doesn't matter to me if someone chooses to do that or not

Have you ever installed / owned a 5th gen RAM with any of these products? I'm wondering if you have any 1st hand experience or are just trying to help (?) by parphrasing information you read elsewhere. Not a dig - Honest question

I've had both the airlift 1000 and sumo springs but not at the same time.

I've never heard of a Timbren bump stop helper. They don't work like the products mentioned in the title or anywhere else in this thread. They are also not what I was talking about in any of my posts. Personally yes, I would steer clear from them. Longer and harder jounce stops that will be constantly slamming the rear of the truck together does not sound like a good idea at all.

There is no difference in concept between coils, air bags, sumo springs, timbrens, or even the factory bump stop. They all do the same thing, they soak up X amount of force to prevent the axle from contacting the frame, but they only have one point of "contact" on the frame (compared to say leafsprings which are attached at two points to the frame and spread the force over two points instead of one.)

Where all these products differ, is the amount of force absorbed and how long it takes to engage them.

The stiffer the "helper", the more force is applied directly to the mounting point at the frame, and the more likely to cause trouble for the frame.

The simple truth is, our trucks are pretty well equipped for towing right out of the box. If the truck absolutely requires a suspension helper then either your truck is too small for the job or something needs adjusting somewhere (WDH). A little visual sag is perfectly fine, they're designed to do this but some guys just want their truck to look tougher and hate the squat.

I'm not here to argue or say "product x will cause problems", I'm simply pointing out that there are reports of cracked frames (not just that one thread either) and what you all choose to do about that information is completely up to you.

Over and out!

 

[LITTLEREBEL]

Happy Timbergrove customer here even though I could never get a PSI gage to work.