A/C Performance

[go-ram]

Hello Everyone,

Would you mind sending me a direct message with your VINs. I've been passing them along to an internal resource for further review and don't think I have all of them from this thread.

Thanks!

Jasmine
Ram Social Care Specialist

Hello Jasmine,

Thanks for looking into this. I'm not an owner yet, but I have test driven couple of 2019s and build&priced a number of times and I'm ready to go place my order for a 2019 Limited 4x4 Crew Cab. But my test drive a couple of weeks ago made me put the order on hold because it was obvious to me that the AC system was way underperforming. So I started looking at postings and asking questions around the 5thgenrams website, and, combined with my own test-drive experience, it's clear to me that at least a few, perhaps a significant percentage, of 2019 Rams have an AC problem. I'm just letting you know this so you can let the higher-ups at Ram know it's a real issue out on the street.

I think everyone on this site understands the difference between it taking longer to cool because the cabs are so large, and air that just isn't cool enough to do the job. A number of posters here have compared their 2019 Ram's AC performance to an older vehicle they have, and it is clear that the issue is not the time to cool the cabin, rather it's the relatively high temperature of the air coming out of the vents - the cool air produced is just not cold enough.

This is not a threat, just honest, up-front notice that there is at least one potential buyer who has been waiting for months and is anxious to buy, but no way am I going to place an order with this AC problem going on. And buying now only to have the dash ripped apart under warranty to replace the evaporator coil or air-blend doors is not an option for me.

I hope the people at Ram listen to you, do their investigation, find the solution, and get on top of this one quickly.

Thanks again for monitoring this site.

 

[XDBrad]

Mine is mediocre at best as well. Comparing my 2019 to the 2015 GMC I just traded there is a significant difference. After start up it only seems to blow ambient air until you get moving above 40-45 mph and only then does it start to blow cool, never cold. I guess I’m lucky to be in Ohio where the number of +90 degree days are limited. Since there has been only a limited number of 19’s actually sold locally my dealer has the “they’re all that way answer”. Trying to express “Just because they are that way doesn’t mean it’s right” seems to be a dead end discussion.

 

[Flot]

Hey guys, anyone made any progress with their local dealers on A/C performance?

 

[chemist2000]

Mine told me its performimg within spec and matches another new one on the lot. Exactly what I expected!

 

[RBRK]

Has anyone actually had a dealer suck theirs down and recharge? I wonder if they are over or under charged?

 

[RT70808]

Has anyone actually had a dealer suck theirs down and recharge? I wonder if they are over or under charged?

I haven’t had any issues other then the temp difference between driver and passenger, I was waiting for them to call me to pickup my license plate then schedule an ac performance test.

 

[I Love Grits]

Had the dealer recover & recharge my truck per my request after they came back with "everything checked out OK". Tested at 95* ambient temperature outside and got a driver side vent temp reading of 55*... 5* lower than before the recharge at the same heat index.

This means that I am now within spec - albeit the max allowable temp - according to the diagnostic chart. Passenger vent reads ~7* cooler than driver's, and I'm still suspicious of a blend door issue.

As mentioned in another post, I threw a set of gauges on before taking the truck in and when purging the manifold noticed some type of debris come out.





What I didn't mention in that post is that I added some refrigerant to the system due to the readings seen (35 psi suction / 235 psi discharge - suction within range (32.5 - 42.5) but discharge is 35 psi below the lower limit of 270), but was never able to get an increase in system pressures. AKA the added refrigerant was stacking up in the condenser due to a restriction somewhere in the system.




I said screw it, recovered what I put in (hooray for not blowing up when using a unit not rated for 1234yf) & took it to the dealer for them to deal with.

Given what I saw, and that the system seems to be performing better after an evacuation, I believe there was trash somewhere. I haven't put the gauges back on yet to see if pressures look any better but will update this thread when I do.

 

[RBRK]

Do you know the amount they recovered? Was it low? As far as the blend door, it could be software related or heat getting by from the heater core. I’m not sure how the system is designed. Too many people including myself have the difference between left and right of the audio unit. I haven’t checked the far left side yet.

 

[I Love Grits]

Do you know the amount they recovered? Was it low?

No. The service notes did not have a volume recovered listed. Just said something to the effect of "recovered & recharged system to xyz grams". I'm not impressed with the dealer I used & will be taking the truck somewhere else in the future.

That being said, I added enough refrigerant without an increase in suction/head pressure to feel confident my issue did not lie with low charge (or low charge alone).

As far as the blend door, it could be software related or heat getting by from the heater core. I’m not sure how the system is designed. Too many people including myself have the difference between left and right of the audio unit. I haven’t checked the far left side yet.

My tech reported that the driver & passenger vents were the same temperature... despite me telling the service adviser I had taken readings myself. At that point I knew this wasn't the dealership for me.

 

[chemist2000]

My vent temps are different 7 degrees also. My windshield has condensation on it even when i have only the vents on. Its obviously leaking through.

 

[Flot]

Grits, I'll be interested to hear if you're still just as happy a few days down the road. I do have those days where I'm like "oh, it's fine, I'm overreacting" and then others where it's just not acceptable.

Interesting that you say an evac and recharge made a difference, I doubt I can convince any local dealer to do that. Somebody on another forum said his blower motor got replaced and it made a difference which confuses me even more.

 

[borant]

I have another observation to crosscheck with folks here. It seems like new AC system does not adjust amount of external air intake based on temperature and speed. This can also explain poor cooling performance at higher temperatures - just too much external air mixed.
My test is following - set fan speed at lowest #1 setting and drive at highway speeds ~70ish without music. Try to change re circulation mode on and off, you should notice significant difference in airflow (unless it is specific to my truck). I tried the same test on my sedan and airflow is about the same in this scenario.

 

[go-ram]

Had the dealer recover & recharge my truck per my request after they came back with "everything checked out OK". Tested at 95* ambient temperature outside and got a driver side vent temp reading of 55*... 5* lower than before the recharge at the same heat index.

This means that I am now within spec - albeit the max allowable temp - according to the diagnostic chart. Passenger vent reads ~7* cooler than driver's, and I'm still suspicious of a blend door issue.

As mentioned in another post, I threw a set of gauges on before taking the truck in and when purging the manifold noticed some type of debris come out.


View attachment 2685


What I didn't mention in that post is that I added some refrigerant to the system due to the readings seen (35 psi suction / 235 psi discharge - suction within range (32.5 - 42.5) but discharge is 35 psi below the lower limit of 270), but was never able to get an increase in system pressures. AKA the added refrigerant was stacking up in the condenser due to a restriction somewhere in the system.


View attachment 2687

I said screw it, recovered what I put in (hooray for not blowing up when using a unit not rated for 1234yf) & took it to the dealer for them to deal with.

Given what I saw, and that the system seems to be performing better after an evacuation, I believe there was trash somewhere. I haven't put the gauges back on yet to see if pressures look any better but will update this thread when I do.

Obviously you know a lot more about AC systems than most of us, but in poking around the internet I recall reading a research paper that talked about a significant difference (40%) in the "refrigerant-side pressure drop" between an R-134A system and the same system with R-1234YF:
https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/vie....com/&httpsredir=1&article=2084&context=iracc
That might not be a valid result, because the R-1234YF systems require a few tweaks to certain parts of the system in order to be able to equal R-134A systems. But there are definitely differences in refrigerant behavior between the two (overall performance is fairly close, but pressures and condensing characteristics vary significantly between the two refrigerants). Here are some other reference papers:

http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/en_US/assets/downloads/SmartAutoAC/HFO-1234yf_IIR_Leck.pdf

http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/en_US/assets/downloads/SmartAutoAC/MAC_SAE_HFO_1234yf.pdf

And here are a couple of practical articles (as opposed to research studies):

https://www.autoserviceprofessional...f-the-new-refrigerant-is-finally-here-are-you

http://www.underhoodservice.com/underhood-update-on-r-1234yf-refrigerant/


https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/vie....com/&httpsredir=1&article=2227&context=iracc

 

[Wiggum]

The AC is the reason that I have not finalized my decision on the RAM as of yet. It seems like a big complaint around the forums. My friend owned a RAM back in the Mid 2000's and the AC was horrible. We would reach our destinations before the cab was cooled. Since that time the AC was improved and my RAM friends loved the AC.

Granted my current lease ends in late December so I have time to do my homework.

 

[VaderRebel]

The AC is the reason that I have not finalized my decision on the RAM as of yet. It seems like a big complaint around the forums. My friend owned a RAM back in the Mid 2000's and the AC was horrible. We would reach our destinations before the cab was cooled. Since that time the AC was improved and my RAM friends loved the AC.

Granted my current lease ends in late December so I have time to do my homework.

I'll be one of the first (because folks almost never go on line to brag about their cold AC, just complain) to let you know it's not necessarily the design of the system, since my Rebel is a meat locker in 30sec, in 90+ heat. And only a handful of owners are having issues that will be fixed if there is something wrong. Now I don't work for FCA, so I'm not concerned whether or not you buy a Ram, I just think looking at interweb complaints isnt a good way of talking yourself out of buying a hell of a vehicle.

 

[chemist2000]

I have to disagree, I think looking at forums is an excellent way to get real reviews from people who already spent the money. It is a hell of a truck, but if the a/c is going to get you to be miserable with it, then it's a serious concern. There is something going on with the a/c, there is no doubt!

 

[VaderRebel]

I have to disagree, I think looking at forums is an excellent way to get real reviews from people who already spent the money. It is a hell of a truck, but if the a/c is going to get you to be miserable with it, then it's a serious concern. There is something going on with the a/c, there is no doubt!

I can see your point, but in the cross section of trucks sold compared to the number of owners with complaints on this forum, I think it gives a skewed perspective on the performance of the AC. If I was not a car guy, knew nothing about my new Ram, other than it's shiny and everything works... I would not be here looking to chat everyone up on how cold my AC gets.

All I'm saying is that's a potential missed opportunity, due to limited info, for someone to own a great truck.

 

[Jus Cruisin]

I have to disagree, I think looking at forums is an excellent way to get real reviews from people who already spent the money. It is a hell of a truck, but if the a/c is going to get you to be miserable with it, then it's a serious concern. There is something going on with the a/c, there is no doubt!

If you go on GMC, Ford, Corvette and I'm sure every enthusiast forum and look at pages filled with complaints, you'd never buy anything based on forum views/reviews. The average owner isn't about to spend time on forums. Us gearheads get on them because we're.... gearheads..... The forums are littered with low post individuals that are only on because they have a problem... Perceived or real and Google their particular makes forum. They would never spend time on the forum otherwise. As Vaderrebel said, take the complaints with a grain of salt and realize it's a small portion of the overall ownership. But it's a large portion of the owners that have had issues crop up.

 

[Flot]

And only a handful of owners are having issues that will be fixed if there is something wrong.

This is nice to say, but if you're one of the handful, and your SEVEN local dealers are all terrible, it is the kind of thing you really want the factory to up their game on. I wish I had somebody else local where I could park my truck side by side with theirs and compare what is coming out of the vents.

Love the truck overall. Not sure what to do next about my AC issues.

 

[VaderRebel]

This is nice to say, but if you're one of the handful, and your SEVEN local dealers are all terrible, it is the kind of thing you really want the factory to up their game on. I wish I had somebody else local where I could park my truck side by side with theirs and compare what is coming out of the vents.

Love the truck overall. Not sure what to do next about my AC issues.

Trust me, I feel your pain, sitting in a lineup of 30 trucks at a dealer in winter with defective air ride suspensions with no answer or fix offered. Trust me, I know. But AC is something hopefully fixable.