5th Gen Stock Stereo Upgrade Options?

[WRH]

I sure wish I had one of those! Hopefully the Pioneer 10" shallow mount works....

 

[I Love Grits]

Ah yeah, I like your venting idea! And yes, interesting thought about eTorque!

So another possible Stereo upgrade issue is the engine silencing. I wonder how calibrated to the speakers and amp that system is. A new amp and different speakers will change things...

I need a schematic showing the speaker and deck circuitry.

See attached.

 

[I Love Grits]

Since you have the 5.7 with the standalone active noise cancellation, you'll have this wiring instead.

 

[WRH]

Excellent, thanks so much!

 

[I Love Grits]

Excellent, thanks so much!

No problem. Are you needing anything else right now?

 

[WRH]

I think now I need to test the sub box when it gets here and the DSR1 when it gets here. I'm a little nervous the noise cancelling is going to cause problems with it, so that'll be the big test. I've heard of people in other cars having a lot of problems controlling it.... where they actually amplify the cancellation to the point it becomes noisy itself. So we'll see...

 

[WRH]

I just had a chat with our friends at Maestro and verified with the engineers.... the Active Noise Cancellation is disabled with the DSR1.

This is good and bad. Bad, because it's kind of a cool feature. I don't know really how well it works because I haven't heard it with and without, but I would like to have kept it. But, keeping it can create a ton of problems too. I wondered if adding new amps/speakers would cause too much noise cancelling to come through... that actually became new noise. From what I've read, it's usually what happens. So, that's the good side to disabling it.

He said nothing else will be lost, just the noise cancellation. I've heard complaints it makes the dash controls slower. I hope that isn't the case. I love how quick everything responds right now. I've also heard it makes it harder for people on the other end of my calls to hear me during Bluetooth calls. I've heard it speculated the reason is the noise cancellation helps with that, although I don't know. At any rate, next week I'll test it and we'll see...

 

[Doxmia]

New to the forums here, figured I'd point out in this thread to anyone thinking of the DSR-1 should avoid it for now, at least for sure if you're a CarPlay user. Until they resolve a laundry list of issues, that is.

Here is an active thread I have on the maestro forums regarding all of the issues I am having. I have a 100% stereo replacement with this unit:

http://www.12voltdata.com/viewtopic.php?f=427&t=18208

 

[Doxmia]

I got a beta DSR1 firmware from them as well as an update to the Maestro side of it.

A Lot of issues seem to be resolved. Siri prompts are now working properly, no issues with audio cutting out and not working completely anymore.

Attenuation seems to work for the parking sensors. It would still be nice if the rear sensors volume could be increased; when I’m playing music even with attenuation (because the gain is quite a bit higher in the front) you can’t hear the beeping in the rear. That said, because it attenuates it at least brings it to my attention now.

Notifications from CarPlay are also working, ringtone, etc. GPS audio is working.

The only thing I’ll say regarding the GPS: Because the DSR1 configuration does not give us an option to change prompt to “all speakers” only “front speakers”, if you’re listening to music pretty loud, the rear speakers can drown out the GPS directions. It would be nice if the CarPlay nav volume could be increased.

I haven’t been able to test the BLIS and FWC audible safety features yet but I’ll test the BLIS later today for sure, I can’t really test the FWC because I don’t really want to trigger it and accidentally get into an accident or anything like that I kind of just have to wait for it to pop up.

 

[Doxmia]

I just had a chat with our friends at Maestro and verified with the engineers.... the Active Noise Cancellation is disabled with the DSR1.

This is good and bad. Bad, because it's kind of a cool feature. I don't know really how well it works because I haven't heard it with and without, but I would like to have kept it. But, keeping it can create a ton of problems too. I wondered if adding new amps/speakers would cause too much noise cancelling to come through... that actually became new noise. From what I've read, it's usually what happens. So, that's the good side to disabling it.

He said nothing else will be lost, just the noise cancellation. I've heard complaints it makes the dash controls slower. I hope that isn't the case. I love how quick everything responds right now. I've also heard it makes it harder for people on the other end of my calls to hear me during Bluetooth calls. I've heard it speculated the reason is the noise cancellation helps with that, although I don't know. At any rate, next week I'll test it and we'll see...

Also for the record: Dash controls aren't any slower and the bluetooth call quality is still 100% crystal clear on both my and the other end. This is with everything replaced and aftermarket amplified.

 

[MrHankbot]

And for those interested in the base level door speaker...

They look sealed off nice, unlike my Tacoma, so I don't think I'll have to manually seal the doors. That's good news. I'll prob run new speaker wire.

I'll replace the stock amp with the DSR1. I thought sound imaging was going to take a hit. It would have had I tried to take the signal from the factory amp. That DSR1 will give me timing and several bonus options...which is freakin awesome. And I'm pretty sure I can also mount my Alpine PD7 and the DSR1 under the drivers seat, which will be easy.

I'm pretty sure two I can get a thin mount 10 inch behind the driver rear seat since I don't have the torque battery back there. It's tight, but pioneer makes a box that not only affordable, but I think it's gonna fit. Have it ordered and looking forward to testing it.

In all, I was discouraged about my options. The DSR1 was a big breakthrough. And the bonus is I can use most of the gear I'd installed and then removed from my Tacoma.

Here's some shots of the doors, factory wires, and factory speaker. Looks like standard speaker adapter mounts will work fine. Since I have 6.5's, I'll go that route.

I hope your DSR1 turns out to work as well as the Rockford 360.3 in my Element. I've had it for 3-4 years now and it's been pretty solid. It's a revalation what a really well tuned system can sound like, even if it's installed by a hack like me.

If I thought I could get away with it I'd consider some stereo upgrades once I get my Limited. Unfortunately I think my wife would kill me in my sleep.

 

[WRH]

I've almost got everything wired up. Still looking for a good solid ground behind the passenger seat in the back. Back seat bolts are a possible option. Any suggestions?

Here's what I've done...

8 New sets of Speaker Wires: A set to each door and four sets to the dash (mids and tweeters). If you route through the door, pull the grommet all the way through the door and out the speaker hole. Much easier to thread your wire through by doing that (and I'd suggest a mild lubricant).

4 Gauge power from the battery to behind the rear seat on passengers side (cut a slit in the rubber grommet on driver side and slipped it through no problem). It hits a fused distribution block and branches to two amps that are mounted behind the rear passenger seat (along with 2 passive crossovers).

8 RCA feeds from under the drivers set to feed the amp once they DSR1 gets fixed (or PAC AmpPro supports our truck).

Base control knob to drivers area (although, I'm still not sure what I'll do for bass... temp fix is a cheap Pioneer box on the floor in the back). I'm hoping somebody makes a nice box for the JL 13" shallow mount. I think it's possible to get it behind the drivers side rear seat. The Pioneer 10" shallow almost made it, and it's a bit thicker.

All wires (except left side speakers) are routed along the driver side door panels.

Once I can test/verify the DSR1 is working (tomorrow they will be testing in the factory with a build similar to mine, so I'm hopeful) I'll disconnect the factory amp, remove factory speakers, and mount my Hybrid audio speakers and fire it all up.... oh, and cross my fingers.

I still have 3 speaker mounts to finish making (the cheap generics looked too flimsy to me). There is 1/2 - 3/4 inch of space in there for mounts (to leave enough room for your speakers to thump).

 

[WRH]

Upgrading the standard 6 speaker system is a nightmare.

For the 6 speaker system, the amp looking thing under the seat appears to be more of a DSP than an amp. Unlike the higher systems, the signals from the radio are speaker level and the can does not appear to control anything. That means something like the DSR1 or the PAC AmpPro will not work as intended.

I tried the DSR1 in universal mode and it sounded horrible. I had the front speakers piped out to the garage where I can test things, and mid ranges faded in and out. Total volume seemed to move up and down. Sometimes it sounded good, other times it sounded washed out. I can't say if the problem is the DSR1 or the data from the truck. But it was terrible sounding.

I miss the days when it was fun to upgrade stereos. Throw in a new deck, amp, speakers... it's a nightmare now.

I'm worried that the UConnect system sends out data that is too tailored for the cheap stock speakers. Probably has the bass cut off too. I understand the mids on the dash are different ohm, so that could explain the mids being washed out on a different system. I could fix that with the DSR1 if it was constant. But it varies over different volumes. I don't know that it can be fixed. Even if I used a DSP to grab it all and mix it together (which creates it's own problems beyond the sound), I just don't know that I can make it sound good. Very discouraging.

What I wonder if the radio itself is the same for each build. If so, maybe I can move the connectors a bit so the system sends data for the 9 or 19 speaker systems. Then the DSR1 option would work... Are the actual radios completely different for each system? Seems like they would make it easy and use the same radio, just different harnesses. I dunno...

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

 

[Doxmia]

I'm sure Maestro/Rockford will figure out the DSR-1 with your truck, and obviously that would be ideal.

If you're not wanting to wait, which I really recommend you do, you can get away with a really high end DSP like the Mosconi Aerospace since it can take a pretty bad signal and do decent things with it. Note: I said decent, it will not be as good as a clean, flat signal. The FiX86 will do an alright job on a budget, but again nowhere near as good as a flat signal and not as good as the Mosconi DSP.

 

[WRH]

For me, I'm not going to get anything from the DSR-1. They did finally get my truck in and confirmed that I'm not getting a flat signal from the radio, and my CAM Bus is not doing anything. So the Maestro side of the house doesn't do, nor will ever do, anything. The flat signal and can bus is the ideal. I thought/hoped/prayed I'd get that. No dice. I suppose it's possible they could make a wiring harness and a prebuilt set of algorithms to offset the crap coming from the radio, but they aren't interested right now. It's a done deal for me and the DSR1.

I can run the DSR1 in Universal mode, but again. It sounds horrible. Volume levels change, no idea why. Sometimes voices fade entirely out. If it was constant, I could fix the signal with the levels and equalizer. But it's not. Even at the same volume. Normally I'd suspect the ANC, but the wiring hardness with the mic inputs are are all unplugged. I'm only using power and radio out from that harness. The ANC module is completely unplugged. But man, it acts like something is interfering. I wonder if even without those plugged in if the radio is impacted. At this point I don't know if the problems are the truck or the DSR1. It could easily be the truck.

I got a few more things I can try. I haven't put resisters on the speaker wires yet, they are coming tomorrow. But I think all sound cuts out when it runs the check and detects no resistance. That happens too. No biggie, I can fix that. I could also try tapping the speakers after the ANC module and leave that in place. Maybe that would help, no idea. I do know I plugged in one of my nice speakers into existing speaker wires and it sounded lousy. The signal is made 100% for those cheap factory speakers. And I thought the base stereo would be the easiest to upgrade.

I'd actually buy something expensive if I knew it would work. I'm so frustrated. And it's not like I have a beefy system anyways: a 900 Watt amp, 100x4 and a sub. Hybrid Audio. It sounded awesome in my Tacoma and since then I went three way in the front and added another small amp. I don't need a lot... but damn, I need a signal I can work with. I'll prob try the Fix86. Maybe even the Kicker Front Row. If those don't work, I'll spend more. I gotta have a good stereo.

 

[Doxmia]

Unfortunately the DSR-1 as a DSP is garbage compared to other options in that price range. It is not worth running in universal mode if you're not going to get the flat signal. The only "decent" thing about the DSR-1 as a DSP is the fact that it does have a harness so it's "clean".

I'd seriously consider going the JL FiX86 in your case; you don't have anything crazy high end and when it comes to flattening out the signal it will do a MUCH better job than you can with that maestro in universal mode.

 

[WRH]

Hey Dox, thanks... exactly what I was leaning towards. The only negative on the Fix 86 is no timing adjustments. .. .means I need a TwK too. Or do you know of something else that has everything in a single unit for less $$? (that works, hahaha). I'd hoped I'd get that with the DSR1.

 

[Ezshooter]

At the risk of a NooB question (and I’m prefacing this post with the fact that I have NOT done what I am suggesting) have either of you thought of using an Audio Control amp/dsp combo like d4.800 or their dsp only? It sums off of high level factory amp output... I have no experience with either Dsr or with Audio Control directly myself, but since you both have gone boldly where no one else has gone before... (at least on the forums), I figured you might have a thought or two on this option.

Separate comment - I saw a YouTube video from an outfit named Sound evolution out of Houston that did what you’re wanting to do- they specifically talked about 5 watt resistors on the speaker output side to trick the amp into staying on, so that should work for the cutout issue.... according to them.

 

[WRH]

I received a replacement DSR1 and it is working tons better. I think I had multiple levels of issues.

The radio on the 6 speaker system does not put out a flat signal. I can bypass the ANC and use speaker level inputs to the DSR1 and it is working great. I don't need resisters with the DSR1 in place. Apparently, it puts enough of a load on them that the car doesn't shut down the audio (it will shut it down if speakers are not all connected to the DSR1).

If I needed signals summed or an algorithm to auto set levels (which the fix does), the DSR1 would not work. I had a 2 way in my Tacoma, I'm adding 3.5s to make it a 3 way which should be here this week. I'll then use a passive crossover on the 3.5s and tweeter, and the DSR1 to limit the 6.5s on the front. That'll really test the ability of the DSR1. So far though, I'm real happy with how I can control levels, crossover, equalizer, and timing on 8 channels with the DSR1. It's easy to mute all but one channel for testing... very slick. I'm not using the Maestro side of the house at all... but I've not seen a device cheaper that lets me do all of that. And, I hear changes in real time. Last week I was pissed and frustrating at my truck and the DSR1. This week, things are much different. It took some time to figure out exactly what I was dealing with... once that was ironed out I made quick progress.

Tonight I'll add the rear speakers on a 2nd amp (already wired in place, need the paint to dry on the speaker mounts I made for the rear doors). We'll see how well the DSR1 blends the two amps together.

My current complaint is a rattle in the passenger door. Going to have to tear that down and see what's going on in there. Eventually I'll do some sound deadening too. I also need a sub solution, which isn't going to be easy in my Quad. I want it behind the seats somehow.

 

[PorBoy]

^^^. Any updates with your current system ?