5th Gen Stock Stereo Upgrade Options?

[WRH]

I had the 6.5s. I would have gone 6x9 otherwise. And the mounting looks fine in there, shouldn't be a problem with standard door speakers. And plenty of depth on the dash. I mounted a tweeter to my dash. I'm not sure if this will be the final resting place for my tweeters, still trying to get a feel and may move them to the A frame. For now, they are zip tied them to the grill. Tweeters can make a massive difference in a car stereo.

 

[YoAdrian]

I had the 6.5s. I would have gone 6x9 otherwise. And the mounting looks fine in there, shouldn't be a problem with standard door speakers. And plenty of depth on the dash. I mounted a tweeter to my dash. I'm not sure if this will be the final resting place for my tweeters, still trying to get a feel and may move them to the A frame. For now, they are zip tied them to the grill. Tweeters can make a massive difference in a car stereo.

Thanks. In support of the point of your thread I’m adding a link to a very thorough post here on upgrading a 2018 JGC Altitude in a similar manner as you. Probably some tips including a harness that strips off the signal from UConnect 4C.

 

[YoAdrian]

I had the 6.5s. I would have gone 6x9 otherwise. And the mounting looks fine in there, shouldn't be a problem with standard door speakers. And plenty of depth on the dash. I mounted a tweeter to my dash. I'm not sure if this will be the final resting place for my tweeters, still trying to get a feel and may move them to the A frame. For now, they are zip tied them to the grill. Tweeters can make a massive difference in a car stereo.

So pumped, I love improving sound even if it’s a little. Do you know what the impedances of the original speakers were, and whether they needed built in crossovers? Need to know what to aim for when shopping... have read 2 ohms, but might be higher on the 3.5”?

 

[WRH]

The dash 3.5s are 8 ohm in the stock 6 speaker layout. I wonder if the 9 and 19 systems also use 8's...

I'm really curious to see how and where others install deadening. That's my next project.

 

[YoAdrian]

The dash 3.5s are 8 ohm in the stock 6 speaker layout. I wonder if the 9 and 19 systems also use 8's...

I'm really curious to see how and where others install deadening. That's my next project.

No doubt. So the 6x9s are 2 ohm though? That’s an odd mix (8 and 2 ohm)... seems like it would give you really quiet 3.5” highs up front... unless that channel is boosted? Or maybe if the 8ohm 3.5”s are swapped to 4/3/2 ohm they might tend to get overpowered and distorted... we’ll see I guess, I’ll try to match as close as possible. Not a problem for you of course!
UPDATE: I’m going to have a tough time finding 8 ohm 3.5s aren’t I?

 

[WRH]

I'm not sure on the 6x9s. I thought they were 4, but now I"m not sure why I thought that.

My sound is really bright. I've wondered if the radio is programmed to balance for those 2 ohms. I can get the sound good at any given level by adjusting levels (the on screen equalizer does a decent job), but when I change the levels it throws off the balance again. I still have some work to do. I have more equalizer in my DSR1, but again, any changes in volume throws it off...

I've heard a few suggestions to help with those 3.5s (that location is a tough one). A dash mat to absorb some sound is supposed to help or reversing polarity on the mids--I'd rather not throw a dash mat up there though if I can help it. I haven't tried either yet... i need to spend some time on it. At least it sounds pretty good right now. Way better than stock for sure.

 

[YoAdrian]

My sound is really bright. I've wondered if the radio is programmed to balance for those 2 ohms.

I’ve been ruminating on this “simple” 6 speaker replacement, given the related problems of A) 8 ohm 3.5” dash speakers with only 2-4 ohm replacements available, B) the corresponding balancing problems generated by 2 ohm 6x9s in the doors, and C) the lack of adjustment of the speaker levels between the dash and door.

To keep the dash-doors even, I want to balance the replacement dash speaker’s lower impedance (more dB) with a low sensitivity (less dB), and choose low impedance high sensitivity 6x9s (more dB). I don’t know the original dash speaker sensitivity, nor the exact impedance-sensitivity-sound relationship for my truck so I’ll be quessing which specific numbers will represent a good sounding balance. Any experience here will help so if you swapped your dash speakers and paid attention to impedance, sensitivity, and relative loudness I’m “all ears.”

So... thoughts on this approach? I don’t see any way to avoid a bit of trial and error but I think I have an experimental method that will work. Here are the speaker options I am considering let me know if any of you have tried these out:

UPDATE: Crutchfield says there are fitment problems with all these options so I’ll have to test to see what modifications might be required. Also, I’m questioning my sensitivity choices below since theoretically doubling the impedance should only require a 3dB increase... in other words the stock dash sensitivity is likely +6dB higher since the impedance is doubled twice (2-4-8). I may only need to correct by decreasing the dash sensitivity difference from +6 dB, down to +3 or +0 dB due to the closer impedances. Oy science and math!

3.5s:

JL Audio C2-350 4 ohm 83/86db silk $100

Infinity REF-3032cfx 3 ohm 89/91dB textile $72

(+ Bass Blockers?)

6x9 “quieter door” option, 4 ohm:
JL Audio C2-690tx 4 ohm 93/96dB silk $210
(backups Hertz DCX 690.3 4 ohm 93/96dB PEI $150)

6x9 “louder door” option, 2.5 ohm:
Infinity Kappa 93ix 2.5 ohm 93/96dB textile $150
(backups JBL Stadium GTO 930 2.5 ohm 93/96dB PEI $200)

 

[YoAdrian]

UPDATE: Crutchfield says there are fitment problems with all these options so I’ll have to test to see what modifications might be required. Also, I’m questioning my sensitivity choices below since theoretically doubling the impedance should only require a 3dB increase... in other words the stock dash sensitivity is likely +6dB higher since the impedance is doubled twice (2-4-8). I may only need to correct by decreasing the dash sensitivity difference from +6 dB, down to +3 or +0 dB due to the closer impedances. Oy science and math!

Morning @WRH , so hey regarding the stock radio output signal, what equalizer corrections did you apply to flatten it? Did it vary between dash/front door/rear door? What corrections have you applied to make it sound good to your ears, with your upgraded amp/speakers? A quick pic of your equalizer settings would do, this information could really help inform speaker replacement decisions (bass heavy/light, bright/warm, etc). I also wonder if the radio outputs uneven signal level (voltage) to one or the other speakers... have you adjusted signal levels as well?

@troutspinner I remember reading one of your excellent posts on another site when you demonstrated the various speaker signals were full range on an older Ram. Can you or anyone out there tell if the 2019 Ram 6 speaker system dash and four doors all get full signal from the stock radio? I’ve read posts indicating the front doors in older models were possibly low pass only.

As mentioned I’m revisiting my replacement speaker guesses from above. Knowing I can’t fully process the signal with a simple speaker swap, I want to address three problems:
- stock speaker quality, addressed by plentiful higher quality options
- relative dash/door loudness, addressed by impedance/sensitivity specs
- wonky sonic profile from stock radio, addressed by selecting bright or warm, bass heavy/light speakers as required.

BTW for those of you who like to learn about and/or agonize over tweaking numbers, I’m operating off of new understanding I gained from this brief, effective explanation regarding power, voltage, impedance, sensitivity, and SPL. Numbers and science.

 

[troutspinner]

Morning @WRH

@troutspinner I remember reading one of your excellent posts on another site when you demonstrated the various speaker signals were full range on an older Ram. Can you or anyone out there tell if the 2019 Ram 6 speaker system dash and four doors all get full signal from the stock radio? I’ve read posts indicating the front doors in older models were possibly low pass only.

I have the Alpine system so I don't know if I can be of help. If someone in SE Pa who has the 6 speaker system wants to meet up, I'll gladly bring my mic and computer to take some signals.

 

[Hackmunch]

Replaced my stock alpine system dash speakers today. Stock are 2 ohm and crossed over around 400hz from my oscope test. I hacked up the rockford p132 3.5 coax to fit. Was a pain in the *** but sounds much better. Not really hard to sound better than a 5$ speaker that can't do much over 10khz lol. What's in the center channel? Once I find out that's next.

 

[YoAdrian]

Replaced my stock alpine system dash speakers today. Stock are 2 ohm and crossed over around 400hz from my oscope test. I hacked up the rockford p132 3.5 coax to fit. Was a pain in the *** but sounds much better. Not really hard to sound better than a 5$ speaker that can't do much over 10khz lol. What's in the center channel? Once I find out that's next.

Cool. Why did you have to hack the speakers, ie what were the fitment problems? Height of the tweeter? Can you share a picture of your hack/mod?

I see the p132s are 4 ohm 85 dB, do they sound quieter than the stock Alpine dash speaks?

 

[troutspinner]

Replaced my stock alpine system dash speakers today. Stock are 2 ohm and crossed over around 400hz from my oscope test. I hacked up the rockford p132 3.5 coax to fit. Was a pain in the *** but sounds much better. Not really hard to sound better than a 5$ speaker that can't do much over 10khz lol. What's in the center channel? Once I find out that's next.

Cool. Why did you have to hack the speakers, ie what were the fitment problems? Height of the tweeter? Can you share a picture of your hack/mod?

I see the p132s are 4 ohm 85 dB, do they sound quieter than the stock Alpine dash speaks?

Hmm, 4 ohm. I’ve got some Dayton’s hanging around. If the 5th gen mounts are the same as 4th gen, then I already have the mounts too. Hmmmm.

 

[Hackmunch]

1st you have to cut the metal mounting taps to match the factory speaker tabs. The rockford tabs are much bigger. Then I had to trim speaker diameter about 1/16" to get it to fit in the stock location. This wasn't to bad considering the speaker mounting ring is plastic.

 

[Hackmunch]

The p132 are definitely louder than stock. I had to turn down eq treble (obviously because the stock speaker had no response over 10khz) and I bumped up the midrange a tad to fill in the gaps.

 

[YoAdrian]

The p132 are definitely louder than stock. I had to turn down eq treble (obviously because the stock speaker had no response over 10khz) and I bumped up the midrange a tad to fill in the gaps.

Thanks for the feedback @Hackmunch that’s good to know for the Alpine owners out there. Your fitment report is great for everybody too as I’m sure we’ve got the same mounts. If Alpine dash stocks are 2 ohms, I wonder what’s causing a higher impedance relatively low sensitivity replacement to be louder? It’s weird.

 

[WRH]

Morning @WRH , so hey regarding the stock radio output signal, what equalizer corrections did you apply to flatten it? Did it vary between dash/front door/rear door? What corrections have you applied to make it sound good to your ears, with your upgraded amp/speakers? A quick pic of your equalizer settings would do, this information could really help inform speaker replacement decisions (bass heavy/light, bright/warm, etc). I also wonder if the radio outputs uneven signal level (voltage) to one or the other speakers... have you adjusted signal levels as well?

I haven't found a constant equalizer setting I am happy with yet. It depends on the volume. I'll try and take some time this week to work on the tuning. I'm looking for the same info you are at this point I did up the levels of the door woofers over the 3.5 and tweeters (passive crossover) on the dash.

 

[eh4860]

Did they bypass or disable the active noise cancellation? The ANC amp is under the drivers seat. I removed it completely in my install and no problems.

I have a 8.4" radio with the 6 speaker set up. The ANC is under my driver's seat, if I unplug it as you mentioned won't I lose power to the speakers?

 

[eh4860]

I have a 8.4" radio with the 6 speaker set up. The ANC is under my driver's seat, if I unplug it as you mentioned won't I lose power to the speakers?

I unplugged both harnesses from the ANC and had no sound. The one harness has more wires than the other. I see a red power and a black ground so I'm assuming it's the incoming harness. If I tap into the wires for the rear doors going into the ANC will I get the signal minus the noise cancellation tones?

 

[YoAdrian]

I unplugged both harnesses from the ANC and had no sound. The one harness has more wires than the other. I see a red power and a black ground so I'm assuming it's the incoming harness. If I tap into the wires for the rear doors going into the ANC will I get the signal minus the noise cancellation tones?

The diagrams from @I Love Grits that were posted earlier in this thread show the amp/ANC module taking power plus eight signal connections in from the radio (L&R, F&R, +&-), plus four microphones in (eight more connections?). It has six speaker outputs (+ and -). If you disconnect the inputs no sound. If you disconnect the outputs no sound. If you disconnect the microphones I’m not sure. UPDATE: If you remove the eight microphone wires from the harness you effectively deactivate the ANC system... in my case turned out to be necessary, think mine has problems...

I’m just swapping speakers, @WRH replaced everything past the radio outputs. What are you trying to accomplish, more than just a speaker swap sounds like?

 

[eh4860]

The diagrams from @I Love Grits that were posted earlier in this thread show the amp/ANC module taking power plus eight signal connections in from the radio (L&R, F&R, +&-), plus four microphones in (eight more connections?). It has six speaker outputs (+ and -). If you disconnect the inputs no sound. If you disconnect the outputs no sound. If you disconnect the microphones I’m not sure.

I’m just swapping speakers, @WRH replaced everything past the radio outputs. What are you trying to accomplish, more than just a speaker swap sounds like?

I installed a Cerwin Vega amplified sub. Sounds great.... Until you drive the truck. The ANC is causing the sub to put out all kinds of crazy noise. I used speaker level inputs to the sub from the b-pillar. I just figured out this afternoon what was causing it. I even went and ran heavier wire for the power and redid the ground wire thinking it was interference. I don't want to take everything out. That's why I'm hoping that if I relocated my wire taps to the input harness I'll get the signal without the noise produced by the ANC.