2025 Ram 1500 First Drive: No More Hemi

[Cbty2050]

I remember when people would complain about power door locks and power windows, as just another thing that will fail and cost more money to fix.

I won't be getting a 3.0 because it's a 1st run of a newer tech put out by Ram. I see all their failures first hand. Hurricanes eating their catalytic converters, cylinder walls scoring, are just a few issues. I think no oil dip stick is one of the dumbest things yet. On a positive note, I think they finally fixed the manifold issues on this engine .

 

[Jako]

I remember when people would complain about power door locks and power windows, as just another thing that will fail and cost more money to fix.

I won't be getting a 3.0 because it's a 1st run of a newer tech put out by Ram. I see all their failures first hand. Hurricanes eating their catalytic converters, cylinder walls scoring, are just a few issues. I think no oil dip stick is one of the dumbest things yet. On a positive note, I think they finally fixed the manifold issues on this engine .

Power windows broke - 1994 Ford Explorer and Dad's (1994?) Ford Crown Victoria,
Power door lock on In-laws 2003 Mercury Gran Marquis
For me there is some truth to it.
But I'll still stick with the power on those.

Get rid of the electric parking brake though.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I remember when people would complain about power door locks and power windows, as just another thing that will fail and cost more money to fix.

I won't be getting a 3.0 because it's a 1st run of a newer tech put out by Ram. I see all their failures first hand. Hurricanes eating their catalytic converters, cylinder walls scoring, are just a few issues. I think no oil dip stick is one of the dumbest things yet. On a positive note, I think they finally fixed the manifold issues on this engine .

My dad used to be in that camp. And the first vehicle he bought that had power windows, we weren't allowed to roll down the windows in the back seat because they might not roll back up. He now won't buy a vehicle without power windows/locks. And has figured out, that is you actually just use them every now and again, there is less chance for them to break because parts move and stay lubricated. Kind of like the people who never use their 4wd, and then after owning the truck for three years try to use 4wd for the first time and it won't shift.

 

[silver billet]

I agree 100% of you, well except about oil weight, but who knows, that may change in time.

Why do you think Ram recommended 5w-30 in the 5.7/2500 when towing > 6000 pounds?

 

[SD Rebel]

Why do you think Ram recommended 5w-30 in the 5.7/2500 when towing > 6000 pounds?

Don't know, do you for sure?

Considering there is just as many 6.4L Hemis that are suffering lifter failures using OEM spec 40W in HD trucks, I'm not sure it the oil weight has anything to do with anything that could effect the durability of these engines.

Again, I've seen just as many so called "experts" say you want longer life, you need to keep the 20W. I'm ready to jump if you got conclusive proof you want to point out, otherwise it's no different than the opposing views out there.

That Hemi engine builder said that the majority of the lifter failures he saw were using 30W or higher, that was enough for me to keep me on the sidelines using the factory recommendations. The info I need will have to be more than conjecture, anecdotal or personal opinion to get me to switch from the factory 20W, which I have used for two decades without issue in my F150, Toyota and most currently in the wife's 6.2L Tahoe.

 

[silver billet]

Don't know, do you for sure?

Considering there is just as many 6.4L Hemis that are suffering lifter failures using OEM spec 40W in HD trucks, I'm not sure it the oil weight has anything to do with anything that could effect the durability of these engines.

Again, I've seen just as many so called "experts" say you want longer life, you need to keep the 20W. I'm ready to jump if you got conclusive proof you want to point out, otherwise it's no different than the opposing views out there.

Lifter failure is completely separate from all this. Rams specifies a 30 weight for the 5.7 when it is towing heavy, that says everything we need to know about what viscosity offers more protection (generally speaking, not related to lifter failure).

We've argued this for so long, "conclusive proof" is all there in black and white but you'll never agree to it. What more evidence do you want? Ask any oil formulator or tribologist, higher HT/HS is directly correlated to more protection and film strength under hot and heavy loads, most 30 weights have higher HT/HS than most 20 weights. Then we have Ram recommending 30 weight when running the 5.7 hard. Add it all up and what do you get?

That Hemi engine builder said that the majority of the lifter failures he saw were using 30W or higher

Let me stop you right there. That's complete BS, the amount of people running 30 weight is extremely small. A few of us on these forums, or guys that no better run 30 weight, but 99% of all lifter failures happen to engines serviced by dealers and lube shops running whatever garbage 20 weight they have in bulk. Lifter failure is not related to the viscosity, lifters fail because there is a flaw in the lifter itself. A 30 weight could in theory extend the life, it certainly won't hurt it in any way, but most likely the lifter is going to fail regardless of whatever oil brand and/or viscosity you run.

 

[SD Rebel]

Lifter failure is completely separate from all this. Rams specifies a 30 weight for the 5.7 when it is towing heavy, that says everything we need to know about what viscosity offers more protection (generally speaking, not related to lifter failure).

We've argued this for so long, "conclusive proof" is all there in black and white but you'll never agree to it. What more evidence do you want? Ask any oil formulator or tribologist, higher HT/HS is directly correlated to more protection and film strength under hot and heavy loads, most 30 weights have higher HT/HS than most 20 weights. Then we have Ram recommending 30 weight when running the 5.7 hard. Add it all up and what do you get?



Let me stop you right there. That's complete BS, the amount of people running 30 weight is extremely small. A few of us on these forums, or guys that no better run 30 weight, but 99% of all lifter failures happen to engines serviced by dealers and lube shops running whatever garbage 20 weight they have in bulk. Lifter failure is not related to the viscosity, lifters fail because there is a flaw in the lifter itself. A 30 weight could in theory extend the life, it certainly won't hurt it in any way, but most likely the lifter is going to fail regardless of whatever oil brand and/or viscosity you run.

What proof again did you give me that told me I should switch to 30W on my truck?

BS??? You took a sample of all the 30W users out there, how do you know it's extremely small? The failures themselves are small, many likely happening after warranty and out of dealership scope. I have just as passionate a person telling me if I go to 30W, I will increase the chance of my pins and later my lifter failing. The difference is 20W is the factory recommendation which keeps me on that side of the fence. And again, more than 2 decades of happy 20W use throughout many vehicles.

Again, this is conjecture, assumptions and theories from misc sources and personal opinion. I have yet to see anything to say we should switch to 30W for longer life on these 5.7L engines in the RAM1500, otherwise we wouldn't still be arguing about it. And as you said, 30W users are an extremely small amount, why would that be if it was obvious 30W was the way to go? Even going by the small sample size for this forum, I don't see any agreement, other than most people still use 20W.

There is nothing conclusive or we wouldn't be talking about it right, it would a slam dunk and most everyone would be onboard. I'll wait until that happens and I'll be happy to do it. I suspect that regardless, 30W or 20W, the longevity of my engine would be about the same.

 

[silver billet]

What proof again did you give me that told me I should switch to 30W on my truck?

BS??? You took a sample of all the 30W users out there, how do you know it's extremely small? The failures themselves are small, many likely happening after warranty and out of dealership scope. I have just as passionate a person telling me if I go to 30W, I will increase the chance of my pins and later my lifter failing. The difference is 20W is the factory recommendation which keeps me on that side of the fence. And again, more than 2 decades of happy 20W use throughout many vehicles.

Again, this is conjecture, assumptions and theories from misc sources and personal opinion. I have yet to see anything to say we should switch to 30W for longer life on these 5.7L engines in the RAM1500, otherwise we wouldn't still be arguing about it. And as you said, 30W users are an extremely small amount, why would that be if it was obvious 30W was the way to go? Even going by the small sample size for this forum, I don't see any agreement, other than most people still use 20W.

There is nothing conclusive or we wouldn't be talking about it right, it would a slam dunk and most everyone would be onboard. I'll wait until that happens and I'll be happy to do it. I suspect that regardless, 30W or 20W, the longevity of my engine would be about the same.

My man, you're 100% hopeless. You run whatever you want, I'm not discussing this any further as it's waste of time.

Horse > water = no drinky.

 

[SD Rebel]

My man, you're 100% hopeless. You run whatever you want, I'm not discussing this any further as it's waste of time.

Horse > water = no drinky.

Think of me as the "Voice of the People" Silver, as you say, we make up the vast majority of owners using 20W, while you make up the tiny group of 30W users, from your own admission.

You failed to enlighten me, though you did make it interesting, however you did not convince me. You want me to drink, you need to give me something concrete if you want the "hopeless" majority to join you.

Though you got the right idea about wasting our time on this, the oil weight differences in terms of durability over it's lifetime is probably negligible.

 

[silver billet]

Think of me as the "Voice of the People" Silver, as you say, we make up the vast majority of owners using 20W, while you make up the tiny group of 30W users, from your own admission.

You failed to enlighten me, though you did make it interesting, however you did not convince me. You want me to drink, you need to give me something concrete if you want the "hopeless" majority to join you.

Though you got the right idea about wasting our time on this, the oil weight differences in terms of durability over it's lifetime is probably negligible.

Some basic facts (the first three are basic facts not related to the hemi)
- 20 weights (and now 16/8 etc) are driven by fuel efficiency/emissions.
- higher HT/HS leads to more protection
- higher viscosity leads to higher HT/HS
- 5.7/1500 "allows" 30 weight
- 5.7/2500 "recommends" 30 weight when towing > 6000-ish pounds

Conclusion: 30 weight offers more protection to the hemi all around and is the better choice. (You can even run 40 weight with 0 problems).

The fact that you can't come to the right conclusion is a failure of you, not me for not presenting enough facts. I'm simply done arguing because it doesn't matter to me what you use, we can preach until we're blue in the face but in the end its your decision. Just don't claim "there is nothing concrete" because it's all there in black and white, you literally cannot find more clear proof. That's why this is a textbook case of horse and water.

 

[dajogejr]

From RAM 1500 no more hemi to 2500, 3500 talk…this one sure went off the rails…

 

[SD Rebel]

Some basic facts (the first three are basic facts not related to the hemi)
- 20 weights (and now 16/8 etc) are driven by fuel efficiency/emissions.
- higher HT/HS leads to more protection
- higher viscosity leads to higher HT/HS
- 5.7/1500 "allows" 30 weight
- 5.7/2500 "recommends" 30 weight when towing > 6000-ish pounds

Conclusion: 30 weight offers more protection to the hemi all around and is the better choice. (You can even run 40 weight with 0 problems).

The fact that you can't come to the right conclusion is a failure of you, not me for not presenting enough facts. I'm simply done arguing because it doesn't matter to me what you use, we can preach until we're blue in the face but in the end its your decision. Just don't claim "there is nothing concrete" because it's all there in black and white, you literally cannot find more clear proof. That's why this is a textbook case of horse and water.

I appreciate the fight Silver, but....

- 20 weights (and now 16/8 etc) are driven by fuel efficiency/emissions.
(You have report that proves this to be the case? Some have stated it improves upper valve train circulation and offers better durability than 30W along with fuel efficiency, please show me something beside personal opinion that this is actually the case. Then you can fix all the other vehicles forums discussing 20W for the last 25 years.)

- higher HT/HS leads to more protection
- higher viscosity leads to higher HT/HS
(Again it's more than that, will it reach the bearings better than thinner oil? You are trading one protection for another. Why aren't you using 50W then? Clearly you are balancing & trading viscosity properties based on overall need, are you sure 30W is the better over 20W with what you do?)

- 5.7/1500 "allows" 30 weight
- 5.7/2500 "recommends" 30 weight when towing > 6000-ish pounds
(But they still recommend 20W when not, so why is that? On a 1500, most are not towing at that level or ever at all, could it be that durability is better at lower weights under less stress? Again, trading viscosity properties, surely 40W is even better when towing that much, like the 6.4L is spec'ed, why aren't we using that? It's too thick you will say?)

Again, you have not convinced me, a person who sits with 99% of the users out there, for now.

 

[silver billet]

I appreciate the fight Silver, but....

- 20 weights (and now 16/8 etc) are driven by fuel efficiency/emissions.
(You have report that proves this to be the case? Some have stated it improves upper valve train circulation and offers better durability than 30W along with fuel efficiency, please show me something beside personal opinion that this is actually the case. Then you can fix all the other vehicles forums discussing 20W for the last 25 years.)

- higher HT/HS leads to more protection
- higher viscosity leads to higher HT/HS
(Again it's more than that, will it reach the bearings better than thinner oil? You are trading one protection for another. Why aren't you using 50W then? Clearly you are balancing & trading viscosity properties based on overall need, are you sure 30W is the better over 20W with what you do?)

- 5.7/1500 "allows" 30 weight
- 5.7/2500 "recommends" 30 weight when towing > 6000-ish pounds
(But they still recommend 20W when not, so why is that? On a 1500, most are not towing at that level or ever at all, could it be that durability is better at lower weights under less stress? Again, trading viscosity properties, surely 40W is even better when towing that much, like the 6.4L is spec'ed, why aren't we using that? It's too thick you will say?)

Again, you have not convinced me, a person who sits with 99% of the users out there, for now.

Everything I said you can double check on your own using google. Spend some time on bitog.

You're also confusing 2 slightly different ideas; higher viscosity (HT/HS) does mean more protection. That's a fact. That's not the same as answering the question: "How much protection do I need for my use case". My choice of oil is determined by my use case (towing often), and backed up by many UOA reports through the years.

Guess which UOA showed the highest amounts of iron and copper per 1000 miles? Yes, the one time I ran 5w-20, it had more iron/copper per 1000 miles vs the same formula in 5w-30 after it, as well as before it (which is doubly telling since usually wear metals decrease as an engines breaks in and ages, until it gets really old of course). The one time I ran 0w-40 it performed very well, but not better than the 5w-30 runs. A 40 weight doesn't take longer to reach the bearings, that's nonsense (we have positive displacement oil pumps, the same oil is pumped through at the same rate, but your PSI goes up with viscosity and lower temps). However 40 weights have a larger amounts of VII's which can bring more shearing and carbon deposits vs a 30 weight, so there is diminishing returns. Again, my choice is backed up by the specs on the oil itself (HT/HS) and UOA reports, I'm not guessing or hand waving, it's actual data.

Do you personally need to run 20 weight? I don't know how you drive, what temps you see, how often you change your oil, how long you hope to keep your truck, are you worried about warranty... and so on. That's all separate from what we were arguing here: Does 30 weight offer more protection and headroom, and yes it absolutely does. The only disadvantage is a very minuscule hit in fuel economy. It doesn't effect us personally, but for corporate averages it really helps Ram when they save every fraction of a percent they can.

 

[DEG]

Perfectly said.
If I would’ve joined and watched this forum before buying my truck and took everything as bible, I wouldn’t have bought the truck I have now.
Rampart lifter failure, too thin/too thick oil, exhaust manifolds….

I wish I had read this forum before buying my truck and purchased the GMC Denali instead of the Ram. I've already had the steering wheel replaced under warranty. I need to schedule another return to the dealer as my left turn single will not cancel after the turn. Just yesterday, the radio stopped shutting off when I open the door. It shuts off about 2 minutes after getting out and closing the door. I even removed the key off delay and it still remains on when the truck is off and the door is open.

I'm getting very close to taking a big loss and trading a new truck on something else. I'm sick and tired of getting in a new ~$80k truck and not being confident that I will make it home without something breaking.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I wish I had read this forum before buying my truck and purchased the GMC Denali instead of the Ram. I've already had the steering wheel replaced under warranty. I need to schedule another return to the dealer as my left turn single will not cancel after the turn. Just yesterday, the radio stopped shutting off when I open the door. It shuts off about 2 minutes after getting out and closing the door. I even removed the key off delay and it still remains on when the truck is off and the door is open.

I'm getting very close to taking a big loss and trading a new truck on something else. I'm sick and tired of getting in a new ~$80k truck and not being confident that I will make it home without something breaking.

Join a GMC forum and you'd have read lots of posts about all the issues they have. No bend is immune from problems. Pick your poison and hope for the best. I've had relatively few issues with my Ram. And most of my Mopars for that matter.

 

[Mr.Grid]

Join a GMC forum and you'd have read lots of posts about all the issues they have. No brand is immune from problems. Pick your poison and hope for the best. I've had relatively few issues with my Ram. And most of my Mopars for that matter.

I agree with following a GMC forum which I did. I wanted their 6.2 Sierra 1500, but reading about all the early rod failures isn’t encouraging. Their interiors and ride are less than the Rams. They have similar problems like other truck manufacturers.

As for 5.7 Hemi lifters, they can fail at any time. Doesn’t make a difference which oil ..0w20, 5w20, 0w30 5w30. I personally believe the Post 2016 model lifters with larger roller needles are a good improvement, but not a 100% fix. I think it’s wise to just change the oil more often (5k miles max) and bet (has been for me) it’s the least expensive and most beneficial for engine longevity in the 5.7 Hemi.

 

[SD Rebel]

Everything I said you can double check on your own using google. Spend some time on bitog.

You're also confusing 2 slightly different ideas; higher viscosity (HT/HS) does mean more protection. That's a fact. That's not the same as answering the question: "How much protection do I need for my use case". My choice of oil is determined by my use case (towing often), and backed up by many UOA reports through the years.

Guess which UOA showed the highest amounts of iron and copper per 1000 miles? Yes, the one time I ran 5w-20, it had more iron/copper per 1000 miles vs the same formula in 5w-30 after it, as well as before it (which is doubly telling since usually wear metals decrease as an engines breaks in and ages, until it gets really old of course). The one time I ran 0w-40 it performed very well, but not better than the 5w-30 runs. A 40 weight doesn't take longer to reach the bearings, that's nonsense (we have positive displacement oil pumps, the same oil is pumped through at the same rate, but your PSI goes up with viscosity and lower temps). However 40 weights have a larger amounts of VII's which can bring more shearing and carbon deposits vs a 30 weight, so there is diminishing returns. Again, my choice is backed up by the specs on the oil itself (HT/HS) and UOA reports, I'm not guessing or hand waving, it's actual data.

Do you personally need to run 20 weight? I don't know how you drive, what temps you see, how often you change your oil, how long you hope to keep your truck, are you worried about warranty... and so on. That's all separate from what we were arguing here: Does 30 weight offer more protection and headroom, and yes it absolutely does. The only disadvantage is a very minuscule hit in fuel economy. It doesn't effect us personally, but for corporate averages it really helps Ram when they save every fraction of a percent they can.

Lots of sentences Silver, but again, it doesn't make me want to go to 30W. I'm not being difficult, I just remain unconvinced, like that the majority of owners out that, not just for RAMs, but other vehicles that also run 20W where similar discussions are also being had. Everything you are saying I was hearing back in 1999 when Ford switched to 5W-20 on the F150, even back speced previous years that were no longer tied to CAFE. Right up to our new Suburban, same discussions and no conclusion from anyone anywhere.

How come in all these years of these engines on the roads, all the tune shops and builders, all the owners, that there isn't a clear validation that 20W is only for economy and we should all move to 30W. Again, as you said, you 30W users are only a small group, why is that? Why aren't more people convinced, even this forum, which is comprised of mostly "enthusiast" who don't represent the majority of owners, that isn't there a clear preferences? Because maybe like me, we aren't convinced the switch is better.

 

[dajogejr]

I wish I had read this forum before buying my truck and purchased the GMC Denali instead of the Ram. I've already had the steering wheel replaced under warranty. I need to schedule another return to the dealer as my left turn single will not cancel after the turn. Just yesterday, the radio stopped shutting off when I open the door. It shuts off about 2 minutes after getting out and closing the door. I even removed the key off delay and it still remains on when the truck is off and the door is open.

I'm getting very close to taking a big loss and trading a new truck on something else. I'm sick and tired of getting in a new ~$80k truck and not being confident that I will make it home without something breaking.

My turn signal didn’t cancel after a left turn either… I read here known problem. At that time, also read it was on back order.
Figure when I took it in for its first oil change I’d mention it to the dealer. At/around 6K miles, no more issues.
I can’t recreate the turn signal not canceling every time. If I can’t get it to do it..the chance a dealer is gonna replace it is slim.

 

[silver billet]

Lots of sentences Silver, but again, it doesn't make me want to go to 30W. I'm not being difficult, I just remain unconvinced, like that the majority of owners out that, not just for RAMs, but other vehicles that also run 20W where similar discussions are also being had. Everything you are saying I was hearing back in 1999 when Ford switched to 5W-20 on the F150, even back speced previous years that were no longer tied to CAFE. Right up to our new Suburban, same discussions and no conclusion from anyone anywhere.

How come in all these years of these engines on the roads, all the tune shops and builders, all the owners, that there isn't a clear validation that 20W is only for economy and we should all move to 30W. Again, as you said, you 30W users are only a small group, why is that? Why aren't more people convinced, even this forum, which is comprised of mostly "enthusiast" who don't represent the majority of owners, that isn't there a clear preferences? Because maybe like me, we aren't convinced the switch is better.

And that's fine, you can remain unconvinced. It's not my problem

 

[Cbty2050]

@SD Rebel and @silver billet while I also enjoy a discussion/banter about who is right. Put it to bed, you hijacked a thread and made it about oil.

The OP is excited to drive this version of the truck.