2025 Ram 1500 First Drive: No More Hemi

[SD Rebel]

Two things wrong with your argument.

First, Ford isn't the number one selling half ton, GM has sold more half tons than Ford since 2019 and has done so many times before in the past. What does GM put in their trucks? V8's, not including the fleet sales.

Second, if you add Ram into the equation, as well as the many hundreds of 5.0 coyote engines in Ford as well, you'll find that the vast, vast majority of home owners (not fleets/businesses) that buy half tons have until 2024 been v8's.

Good points in clarification, absolutely right. Though I think his main point is there is a whole lot of EcoBoost out there.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Two things wrong with your argument.

First, Ford isn't the number one selling half ton, GM has sold more half tons than Ford since 2019 and has done so many times before in the past. What does GM put in their trucks? V8's, not including the fleet sales.

Second, if you add Ram into the equation, as well as the many hundreds of 5.0 coyote engines in Ford as well, you'll find that the vast, vast majority of home owners (not fleets/businesses) that buy half tons have until 2024 been v8's.

Chevy has the turbo 4cyl trucks as well

 

[dajogejr]

Two things wrong with your argument.

First, Ford isn't the number one selling half ton, GM has sold more half tons than Ford since 2019 and has done so many times before in the past. What does GM put in their trucks? V8's, not including the fleet sales.

Second, if you add Ram into the equation, as well as the many hundreds of 5.0 coyote engines in Ford as well, you'll find that the vast, vast majority of home owners (not fleets/businesses) that buy half tons have until 2024 been v8's.

Fair. F series is the best selling, not just half ton. Very true.
Second. Why discount and not include fleet trucks? If they’re not half ton and/or are electric, ok.
But if they’re half ton ICE…game on.

Agree with you on RAMs and primarily being V8s.

I question why you would discount fleet/business trucks if they’re half ton.
Regardless of price point, they most likely get driven the most (and possibly…possibly maintained the least).

Last point…which is really the overall point. More than safe to say… Ford has plenty of Turbo V6 motors out there, they sell a crap ton of half tons…and they’re not all broken down, burnt up, doom and gloom.

 

[TheWaterman83]

Chevy has the turbo 4cyl trucks as well

And Ram might be the ONLY manufacturer to offer NO-V8 option in 2025. Mind-boggling.

It almost begs to wonder if they just finally pissed the EPA off too much with the SRT, Hellcats, and TRX's.

 

[dajogejr]

And Ram might be the ONLY manufacturer to offer NO-V8 option in 2025. Mind-boggling.

It almost begs to wonder if they just finally pissed the EPA off too much with the SRT, Hellcats, and TRX's.

yeah, I’m wondering if the 2500/3500 lineups continue to get the 6.4L Hemi. I haven’t seen anything stating that for 2025…

 

[SD Rebel]

And Ram might be the ONLY manufacturer to offer NO-V8 option in 2025. Mind-boggling.

It almost begs to wonder if they just finally pissed the EPA off too much with the SRT, Hellcats, and TRX's.

It's mostly emission compliance related, the 5.0L and future small block V8s from GM are all going to be complaint, but Stellantis decided not to go that route. Instead, they decided to put all their eggs in the Hurricane basket since they can use that motor across all lines in volume models, whereas the V8 would probably only fit in a few models.

I think this is a Euro centric view on the brand and those in charge of the brand in the US weren't strong enough to convince them that a V8 was necessary. I guess we'll find out.

 

[silver billet]

Fair. F series is the best selling, not just half ton. Very true.
Second. Why discount and not include fleet trucks? If they’re not half ton and/or are electric, ok.

Mainly because they're not using the same criteria as most home owners, we have different values. Basically I feel you were implying that the half ton market has accepted and likes ecoboosts/turbos, but when you compare total sales the market says no, we still prefer v8s if we have a choice.

Fleet sales play by different rules, many of these are purchased as cheaply as possible. The basic v6s cover a lot of these sales. But for guys who are willing to pay extra for a good engine upgrade, the v8 still outsells a turbo by a large margin.

But if they’re half ton ICE…game on.

Agree with you on RAMs and primarily being V8s.

I question why you would discount fleet/business trucks if they’re half ton.
Regardless of price point, they most likely get driven the most (and possibly…possibly maintained the least).

Last point…which is really the overall point. More than safe to say… Ford has plenty of Turbo V6 motors out there, they sell a crap ton of half tons…and they’re not all broken down, burnt up, doom and gloom.

I would point you to sales in the 2500/F250 heavy duty segment which has absolutely 0 turbos and instead relies on very simple, very old-skool N/A engines with a big displacement. Note how Ford has the biggest v8 engine for sale in this segment, a 7.3, and doesn't put their ecoboost in them.

That same reason is why I bought my hemi; a large, N/A v8 with a proven track record in 1500 AND 2500 trucks for over a decade.

 

[silver billet]

yeah, I’m wondering if the 2500/3500 lineups continue to get the 6.4L Hemi. I haven’t seen anything stating that for 2025…

The 6.4 was slightly refreshed for emissions reasons, but it's coming back in 2025+. And the 6 speed in the 3/4 +1 ton was dropped and replaced with an upgraded ZF behind the cummins as well.

 

[CalvinC]

Ford has plenty of Turbo V6 motors out there, they sell a crap ton of half tons…and they’re not all broken down, burnt up, doom and gloom.

The 3.5 Eco in my 2015 has been one of the most reliable engines I've had. And it's heavily modified. Its the rest of the truck falling apart around the engine that makes me grumpy, coupled with the experience of the TTV6 being less fun than a V8, even if objectively a better performer.

Hurricane reliability will be on par with any other modern engine designed in this era - whether that is good or bad is a different subject.

The issue is with complexity of repair - not likelihood of repair.

For instance the issue I had with my Eco was leaking exhaust manifolds - same as Hemi. But it was a gigantic pain in the @ss with the Eco, because it also involved Turbo remove & replace (x2), starter removal, intake plumbing removal, a/c compressor removal & recharge, oil change, and coolant system flush.

 

[silver billet]

Also, "F Series" is not the best selling either if you add GMC and Chevy sales together. This is just Ford's stupid marketing. All GM has to do is create a new marketing label like "G series" and then stuff all their light duty trucks in it and now they can claim "GM's G Series is best selling in America!!! lolz."

Don't believe the marketing. In the end GM has been kicking Ford's a$$ to the curb when it comes to sales and they've been doing it for a while now.

 

[silver billet]

The 3.5 Eco in my 2015 has been one of the most reliable engines I've had. And it's heavily modified. Its the rest of the truck falling apart around the engine that makes me grumpy, coupled with the experience of the TTV6 being less fun than a V8, even if objectively a better performer.

Hurricane reliability will be on par with any other modern engine designed in this era - whether that is good or bad is a different subject.

The issue is with complexity of repair - not likelihood of repair.

For instance the issue I had with my Eco was leaking exhaust manifolds - same as Hemi. But it was a gigantic pain in the @ss with the Eco, because it also involved Turbo remove & replace (x2), starter removal, intake plumbing removal, a/c compressor removal & recharge, oil change, and coolant system flush.

Yep, get used to more cab-off-of-frame repairs for the hurricane vs the hemi. And the likihood of backyard mechanics tinkering with it is also less likely.

 

[SD Rebel]

Also, "F Series" is not the best selling either if you add GMC and Chevy sales together. This is just Ford's stupid marketing. All GM has to do is create a new marketing label like "G series" and then stuff all their light duty trucks in it and now they can claim "GM's G Series is best selling in America!!! lolz."

Don't believe the marketing. In the end GM has been kicking Ford's a$$ to the curb when it comes to sales and they've been doing it for a while now.

To be fair, it actually was for the longest time, the F-series (F150, F250, F350) outsold both the Silverado & Sierra (1500, 2500, 3500) for probably decades consistently, only a few years here and there when the combined GM did actually outsell them. I think only 3 times between 1990 - 2015 did they actually outsell Ford combined.

Then, about 4 years ago, the ratio increased to every other year and now to the point that GM for the last couple of years has been beating Ford combined regularly.

In terms of total trucks, including BOF SUVs and mid-size, GM has been selling the most trucks for probably a 10-15 years.

 

[dajogejr]

Fleet sales play by different rules, many of these are purchased as cheaply as possible. The basic v6s cover a lot of these sales. But for guys who are willing to pay extra for a good engine upgrade, the v8 still outsells a turbo by a large margin.

Understood and agree.
But…circling back, the primary point of the post was reliability.
If it’s a smaller motor, turbo, V6…and in a truck, I count it.

The question wasn’t about personal preference, $$ or buying power….
If it was, wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[silver billet]

Understood and agree.
But…circling back, the primary point of the post was reliability.
If it’s a smaller motor, turbo, V6…and in a truck, I count it.

The question wasn’t about personal preference, $$ or buying power….
If it was, wholeheartedly agree with you.

Did you see my point about heavy duty trucks all using big, N/A engines and not turbo's, even Ford?

 

[silver billet]

To be fair, it actually was for the longest time, the F-series (F150, F250, F350) outsold both the Silverado & Sierra (1500, 2500, 3500) for probably decades consistently, only a few years here and there when the combined GM did actually outsell them. I think only 3 times between 1990 - 2015 did they actually outsell Ford combined.

Then, about 4 years ago, the ratio increased to every other year and now to the point that GM for the last couple of years has been beating Ford combined regularly.

It was more than 3 times between 1990-2015. I'll try and find the sales chart back.

Your last statement is also a head scratcher, not sure you're trying to say but every year since 2019 (so the last 5 years straight) GM trucks has outsold Ford trucks; not just "every other year".

What this means, is that the 2019 GM refresh has been very successful for them, even with the pretty terrible interiors for 3 of those years. Ford has been beyond stale with just a front facia refresh here and there (I can't contain my excitement for those Ford updates since 2010? which essentially amounts to new headlights It's still the same terribly ugly rectangle coming at you down the road with no muscular body lines or sculpting or anything considered "style")

 

[SD Rebel]

It was more than 3 times between 1990-2015. I'll try and find the sales chart back.

Your last statement is also a head scratcher, not sure you're trying to say but every year since 2019 (so the last 5 years straight) GM trucks has outsold Ford trucks; not just "every other year".

What this means, is that the 2019 GM refresh has been very successful for them, even with the pretty terrible interiors for 3 of those years. Ford has been beyond stale with just a front facia refresh here and there (I can't contain my excitement for those Ford updates since 2010? which essentially amounts to new headlights It's still the same terribly ugly rectangle coming at you down the road with no muscular body lines or sculpting or anything considered "style")

I saw the chart, I saw 3 up to 2015, maybe it could have been 4? Either way, until 2015, the F-series consistently outsold combined GM trucks with a very few exceptions.

Yea, I meant 5 straight, I don't proof read my stuff, sorry about the confusion there. Though maybe Ford could have had an odd win somewhere in-between.

Yup, even with the garbage interior and weird side chops, they found a way to outsell Ford. However, Ford will say it's because of Covid shortages, but didn't they all have that issue?

 

[dajogejr]

Did you see my point about heavy duty trucks all using big, N/A engines and not turbo's, even Ford?

Yes.
Did you see my post about fleet/commercial vehicles also being included?
Or the primary point, again…turbo V6s aren’t littering the side of the road ways, melting pistons, etc.

 

[SD Rebel]

Yes.
Did you see my post about fleet/commercial vehicles also being included?
Or the primary point, again…turbo V6s aren’t littering the side of the road ways, melting pistons, etc.

Don't they also use turbo diesels? All our work vehicles are 1500s, the Fords we have are either Ecoboost 2.7L & 3.5L, no melting pistons. We do have an odd 5.0L here and there too.

I had my 2.7L for 4 years, loved that engine. Would I trust it beyond 100K, not sure, but then again, not sure about the Hemi either being on this forum.

 

[silver billet]

Yes.
Did you see my post about fleet/commercial vehicles also being included?
Or the primary point, again…turbo V6s aren’t littering the side of the road ways, melting pistons, etc.

Lots of issues with them if you look at the forums and watch engine tear downs. Again, no one is putting turbos in heavy duty trucks for a reason. That reason is the same reason I don't want them. It's really that simple, they're engines designed for passenger duty.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Lots of issues with them if you look at the forums and watch engine tear downs. Again, no one is putting turbos in heavy duty trucks for a reason. That reason is the same reason I don't want them. It's really that simple, they're engines designed for passenger duty.

There are lots of issues with every single vehicle ever produced if all you ever do is read internet forums and YouTube tear down videos.