2024 Ram electric pickup

[silver64]

I am an electrical engineer who has spent most of my career in the electric utility industry. My experience involves the design of electric distribution system installations including the latest generation of distribution smart grid equipment; as well as the design, installation, and testing of transmission/substation control equipment. I also have some experience in the planning and operation of bulk power operations, i.e., the transmission grid. For the last four years I have been in the forensic investigation industry, where I have investigated numerous incidents involving vehicle fires; including fossil fuel vehicles, battery powered vehicles, and hybrids.

There are some opinions in this thread that are incorrect regarding the specific challenges facing the power grid as our country increasingly electrifies. It's not one single issue - what is needed is widespread investment and deployment in renewables, transmission capacity, distribution smart grid, storage, reactive power compensation (this is a big one that is never talked about, basically it means voltage support), et. al. There are a lot of arguments against this investment, but honestly, Rome wasn't built in a day. We need to move in this direction if we are to survive as a species.

As to the vehicle fires, yes, lithium chemistry batteries *can* start fires, seemingly out of nowhere. These fires could be due to a number of factors, e.g. manufacturing defects, software errors, component failure, etc. The big issue is the storage and disposal of a battery electric vehicle that has been involved in a fire. There is a lot of energy stored in the battery packs that can be very hard to discharge after a fire because the circuits have been severed. Its not uncommon for a battery electric vehicle to start on fire again hours or even days after the initial fire. Some fire departments have taken to immersing battery electric vehicles in giant tanks of salt water in order to cool the packs and attempt to discharge any remaining energy (by shorting through the conductive saltwater). Fire departments are constantly training, and electric vehicles have been part of that curriculum since hybrids started becoming popular.

While I plan on keeping my 2021 1500 about a decade, I've already made the decision that my next vehicle is going to be all electric. By that time a lot of the challenges with range, charging speed, grid capacity, etc., should have better solutions than we have today. My job has me driving ~500mi/day max, and I believe that we'll be seeing pickups that meet or exceed that range in ten years. I look forward to seeing what the market has available when its time to give up my V8 habit.

I agree with almost everything you stated as I am also an electrical engineer since 1980. Mostly where we disagree is in how to rectify the existing power systems and increase production, generation and distribution and do all of this as safely as possible. Honestly there have been huge technological advances in nuclear power but the stigma of poorly designed and maintained reactors have created this fear that may never allow the widespread use of atomic power again. Its a shame because there are now mini reactors that could be distributed as opposed to a central site that could really fix a lot of the generation & transmission issues we face today. Things like wind power & solar contribute very little to the national grid as a percentage of the whole.

With respect to Lithium batteries in the right (or really should say wrong) conditions they can cause huge issues for fire fighters because of he temperature at which they burn and volatility of how these fires can reignite as you stated. There is risk with any power source.

 

[SpeedyV]

I agree with almost everything you stated as I am also an electrical engineer since 1980. Mostly where we disagree is in how to rectify the existing power systems and increase production, generation and distribution and do all of this as safely as possible. Honestly there have been huge technological advances in nuclear power but the stigma of poorly designed and maintained reactors have created this fear that may never allow the widespread use of atomic power again. Its a shame because there are now mini reactors that could be distributed as opposed to a central site that could really fix a lot of the generation & transmission issues we face today. Things like wind power & solar contribute very little to the national grid as a percentage of the whole.

With respect to Lithium batteries in the right (or really should say wrong) conditions they can cause huge issues for fire fighters because of he temperature at which they burn and volatility of how these fires can reignite as you stated. There is risk with any power source.

Would love to see further progress on “dirty” reactors. If we could generate massive power output while reducing nuclear waste, that would be very compelling.

 

[WXman]

There are some interesting posts in this thread. At the end of the day, I still think that many of you are being overly optimistic about how quickly this switch to electricity is going to happen. There are so many things working against EVs that I don't even have time or space to list it all here. I'm in the transportation industry at the government level, and I've seen some of the discussions about EVs and motor fuels taxes, autonomous vehicles and the current signage and transportation network, and a whole lot else. Between all the issues that face a switch, and public opinion and demand, I think you're looking at a lot longer than 10 years before we see fully electric vehicles go mainstream.

Just look at how Stellantis brands have been selling in this country in recent years....almost everything they make is blowing up in demand because of one simple fact: They're sticking V8 gas engines into everything they'll fit into and people LOVE IT.

 

[SBrentnall]

Just quoting you to say how cool it is you had an original roadster. I rode in one of those once when I lived in SF and one of my VC friends in Palo Alto had one. It definitely felt like the future..that was around 2009 or so? Anyway, it was cool to ride in and awesome to be one of the few that experienced the Tesla Story. I’m rooting for Tesla because they’re 100% American, it’s a startup story, they’re up against a huge industry and they’re seemingly learning from mistakes and pushing technology forward. I hope they can crack it and go truly mainstream. It’s a great success story. On a personal note, I think Elon gets TOO much love from consumers but living among startup founders for years, his personality type isn’t unique, he’s just managed to successfully start / bring up a few companies and find an exit and so for that, he deserves respect as an entrepreneur.

It was very cool, although police sometimes didn’t know what to make of it. More than once, they would follow us and pull us over, thinking it was some kind of kit car. When we explained, they were fascinated.

Definitely agree with you about Musk. He’s a brilliant man, but he can be kind of a jerk, too. Still, I guess that’s pretty common among visionaries. And I love that he believed so passionately in the concept of EVs that he released his patents into the public domain so other manufacturers could benefit.

Ironically, it’s Tesla that’s funding my Limited. I bought stock right at the IPO

 

[SBrentnall]

I think electric vehicles have their purpose. Like In big cities where smog is terrible and folks need to drive 20 minutes to their office building. Not feasible for long trips where you have to stop and charge for an hour two or three times.

kinda defeats the purpose when you are using fossil fueled electric plants to charge electric vehicles tho.

It depends where you live. Here in CA, a large amount of power is generated from renewable sources.

As for recharging, our Tesla goes about 320 miles before we have to stop and recharge. We pick a supercharger location that has restaurants and stop for a snack while we charge. The V3 chargers give about 75 miles every 5 mins, so you don’t have to stop for long.

 

[AdamChandler]

It was very cool, although police sometimes didn’t know what to make of it. More than once, they would follow us and pull us over, thinking it was some kind of kit car. When we explained, they were fascinated.

Definitely agree with you about Musk. He’s a brilliant man, but he can be kind of a jerk, too. Still, I guess that’s pretty common among visionaries. And I love that he believed so passionately in the concept of EVs that he released his patents into the public domain so other manufacturers could benefit.

Ironically, it’s Tesla that’s funding my Limited. I bought stock right at the IPO

When I was in the startup world, everyone who was a visionary was also, day to day kind of an *******. I don't know why it's that way but it just seems so it's no like they became a jerk after being successful it's like that's something they all sort of have in common. Not cutthroat or ruthless just kind of generally a jerk.

I thought Tesla stock was overprice in 2016. Boy was I wrong.

 

[Neil McCauley]

I am sure the truck will work great. But it's engineered obsolescence. Not a huge fan of that trend. Maybe I should get a horse and buggy and be Amish, but it's amazing the amount of independence and control we have given up over our transportation, communication, work, entertainment, etc.

 

[Benca101]

We have rolling blackouts here in CA in hot weather, but not because there isn't enough power. It's because the infrastructure is so poorly maintained that overheated and sparking transformers spark wildfires. Their theory is that by turning off power to some areas, they lessen the spark risk.

For the record, the reason for this condition is the very aggressive push to solar and wind. The solar and wind, complete with entirely new power lines to those remote areas, forced PGE (famously) to neglect most of the stuff most utiltiy companies perform regularly. What is CAs CO2 goals again? I can't recall, I just understand that they are some of the aggressive and ambitious plans put into law.

And people died as a result. No one blames the legislation, the just blame PGE.

But, this is also why California has some of the most expensive electricity in the nation. Here in San Diego my average cost is 35 cents a kWh, but the national average is around 15 cents.

And, rolling blackouts last summer were specifically due to a lack of available energy, at least the ones in Southern California.

California has painted itself into a corner. But the political party here accomplished what they wanted: increase costs to such a degree as to force painful change. You would think this would lead to a voter revolt, as this with the nations highest tax rates would cause someone to vote differently. But nope. Had a chance to escape.. stupid family.

 

[SpeedyV]

For the record, the reason for this condition is the very aggressive push to solar and wind. The solar and wind, complete with entirely new power lines to those remote areas, forced PGE (famously) to neglect most of the stuff most utiltiy companies perform regularly. What is CAs CO2 goals again? I can't recall, I just understand that they are some of the aggressive and ambitious plans put into law.

And people died as a result. No one blames the legislation, the just blame PGE.

But, this is also why California has some of the most expensive electricity in the nation. Here in San Diego my average cost is 35 cents a kWh, but the national average is around 15 cents.

And, rolling blackouts last summer were specifically due to a lack of available energy, at least the ones in Southern California.

California has painted itself into a corner. But the political party here accomplished what they wanted: increase costs to such a degree as to force painful change. You would think this would lead to a voter revolt, as this with the nations highest tax rates would cause someone to vote differently. But nope. Had a chance to escape.. stupid family.

Interesting. Here in Texas, where we have more renewable energy infrastructure than any other state, including California, the statewide average rate is less than 12 cents per kWh. I wonder why there’s such a difference.

 

[Adrianp89]

Blows my mind how arrogant and ignorant some people when it comes to electric cars. It’s just not a democratic thing, it’s not just an environment thing. People should wipe that BS from their mind and look at it as just a car.

My wife has a Tesla and the driving experience is light years ahead of my Ram.

You guys spend $1,000s for performance but complain you don’t want electric but the CyberTruck is faster than everything FCA produces.

People complain when a new software comes out for 2022 but their 2020 can’t get it..... Tesla upgrades everybody over the air within a few weeks.

Ive seen complaints of Guardian being **** (which it is) and you have to pay for it. Tesla app works perfect and it’s free.

I could go in with several things people complain about and add to their truck that are solved from the factory with Tesla.

For me it’s not political or environmental, it’s the experience. Instant acceleration, one pedal driving, self driving, much better safety features, free VIP parking (chargers are always in prime locations). Hard to describe but when you drive one, you’ll get it.

The quick charging will get there, we are almost there now. Towing range will be there in several years. With my 33 gallon tank I’ll get about 330 miles range towing. The CyberTruck would probably be around 250 so it’s not too far off.

While SuperChargers aren’t too much cheaper than gas, home charging is. $160-$200 a month in gas went to a $20-$30 increase in power bill.

Both ICE and EV will co exist for a time, but ICE is a thing of the past and it’s days are limited. History all but ensures that.

 

[SBrentnall]

For the record, the reason for this condition is the very aggressive push to solar and wind. The solar and wind, complete with entirely new power lines to those remote areas, forced PGE (famously) to neglect most of the stuff most utiltiy companies perform regularly.
...
And, rolling blackouts last summer were specifically due to a lack of available energy, at least the ones in Southern California.

I did so more research and you’re correct about last year‘s blackouts being rated to demand (which is unusual). But I couldn’t find any info to suggest that the lack of infrastructure maintenance was related to solar and wind.

Do you have any sources you can share? I’d love to read more.

 

[Drewster]

For me it’s not political or environmental, it’s the experience. Instant acceleration, one pedal driving, self driving, much better safety features, free VIP parking (chargers are always in prime locations). Hard to describe but when you drive one, you’ll get it.

Totally agreed. I'm a gearhead - I'll likely always have a gas burning race car in the stable - but at the end of the day it comes down to driving experience and cost of ownership.

Something else that blows my mind is the noise level. Without a constantly vibrating engine, the only noise is the wind going around the car and with something like a Tesla there isn't much of that either. I can't imagine how hard it is for them to keep down squeaks and rattles because *everything* is audible, but after driving gas vehicles your whole life it's something that you notice immediately.

When it gets down to cost of ownership I really don't mind doing standard engine maintenance myself, but there's something to be said about a vehicle that has only one moving part. A guy I used to work with has a Chevy Bolt and loves it when the dealer tells him "oh, sir, it looks like you're due for an oil change as well as power steering and fuel system service!" ...yeah. All they need are tires, wiper blades, and a coolant change at 150,000 miles.... kinda makes ICE maintenance an old joke.

 

[LaxDfns15]

Blows my mind how arrogant and ignorant some people when it comes to electric cars. It’s just not a democratic thing, it’s not just an environment thing. People should wipe that BS from their mind and look at it as just a car.

My wife has a Tesla and the driving experience is light years ahead of my Ram.

You guys spend $1,000s for performance but complain you don’t want electric but the CyberTruck is faster than everything FCA produces.

People complain when a new software comes out for 2022 but their 2020 can’t get it..... Tesla upgrades everybody over the air within a few weeks.

Ive seen complaints of Guardian being **** (which it is) and you have to pay for it. Tesla app works perfect and it’s free.

I could go in with several things people complain about and add to their truck that are solved from the factory with Tesla.

For me it’s not political or environmental, it’s the experience. Instant acceleration, one pedal driving, self driving, much better safety features, free VIP parking (chargers are always in prime locations). Hard to describe but when you drive one, you’ll get it.

The quick charging will get there, we are almost there now. Towing range will be there in several years. With my 33 gallon tank I’ll get about 330 miles range towing. The CyberTruck would probably be around 250 so it’s not too far off.

While SuperChargers aren’t too much cheaper than gas, home charging is. $160-$200 a month in gas went to a $20-$30 increase in power bill.

Both ICE and EV will co exist for a time, but ICE is a thing of the past and it’s days are limited. History all but ensures that.

Depending on your location, chargers can be in high demand. And VIP parking means parking in the back of the parking lot and walking a half mile to a store in some cases if you need to charge.

330 miles towing, 10 minutes to get gas and bathroom, then back on the road. Compared 250 miles towing, 30+ minutes to full charge, then back on the road. Plus you probably have to make a detour/inefficient stop to hit a supercharger location. Let's say you need to drive 600 miles in a day for your trip. That's an extra 1.5+ hours added just for charging, and depending on your speed means a LONG day or two days.

I will most likely get an EV car in the next 5 years and a truck in the next 10 years, but they still need battery and charging improvements before then.

 

[millerbjm]

If you don't think an ICE vehicle can start on fire and burn a very long time watch this recent video of a BMW hitting the guardrail as it enters the Lowry tunnel in Minneapolis.

 

[SpeedyV]

330 miles towing, 10 minutes to get gas and bathroom, then back on the road. Compared 250 miles towing, 30+ minutes to full charge, then back on the road. Plus you probably have to make a detour/inefficient stop to hit a supercharger location. Let's say you need to drive 600 miles in a day for your trip. That's an extra 1.5+ hours added just for charging, and depending on your speed means a LONG day or two days.

You're not wrong in your assessment of current state when towing, but "current state" is a very fast-moving target.

Also, look at the use case. Just by observation, 90%+ of highway miles driven are unloaded vs. towing (among passenger cars and trucks, obviously). Likewise, the average driver rarely makes a road trip (as a percentage of their driving time) that requires multiple fill-ups. So if we look at the 90-95% use case (e.g. commuters), it's quickly becoming hard to make a case for a vehicle that wouldn't be safer, quieter, faster, significantly more efficient, and 'cleaner' if electric.

 

[IvoryHemi]

What happens if you run out of juice on the highway?

Is there a portable battery pack that can charge? Or does it need to get towed to a charging station?

 

[SpeedyV]

What happens if you run out of juice on the highway?

Is there a portable battery pack that can charge? Or does it need to get towed to a charging station?

Teslas will warn you if you’re going to head out of the range of a charging station (a list of commercial stations is maintained). But presuming other manufacturers don’t follow a similar practice, I imagine that either a “reserve” needs to be maintained (which is always done for battery health) that you could tap into “for emergencies only”, or you’d call a tow rig that would need to charge you up a bit (like adding a couple of gallons of gas along the highway).

 

[Buz]

or you’d call a tow rig that would need to charge you up a bit (like adding a couple of gallons of gas along the highway).

I suppose future tow rigs could be outfitted with a super-high output alternator that in 5 or 10 minutes could get an EV up and running with enough juice to make it to a charging station.

 

[IvoryHemi]

or you’d call a tow rig that would need to charge you up a bit (like adding a couple of gallons of gas along the highway).

That’s exactly my concern. I know I can get a 5 gallon jug of gas easily.

Is that a Tesla only thing that they will come out to recharge you or are most tow trucks equipped to recharge?

 

[SpeedyV]

That’s exactly my concern. I know I can get a 5 gallon jug of gas easily.

Is that a Tesla only thing that they will come out and recharge you or are most tow trucks equipped to recharge?

I think @Buz is on the right track. Right now, I can’t imagine many rigs are equipped for this. I suppose they could be retrofitted with high output generators. Somebody is going to standardize this gear and make out like a bandit.