2024 Ram electric pickup

[VectorZ]

I just read a new report about this crash. The Fire Chief says the “four hour fire” wasn’t true, and they had the main fire out within 4 minutes.

After that, they had to continue to passively cool - since there were still bodies in the car and it was an investigation site, they couldn’t be as aggressive as usual in putting out the residual fire. I expect that usually, the would have blasted a car fire until was completely out, but that would have damaged the bodies.

Exclusive: TX Chief Talks Challenges of Tesla Crash Fire

"I was impressed by the amount of heat ... that really destroyed the car in a relatively quick time," said The Woodlands fire chief about a recent fatal Tesla Model S accident...

www.firehouse.com

How many people have burned up in car fires though?

 

[Scram1500]

I just read a new report about this crash. The Fire Chief says the “four hour fire” wasn’t true, and they had the main fire out within 4 minutes.

After that, they had to continue to passively cool - since there were still bodies in the car and it was an investigation site, they couldn’t be as aggressive as usual in putting out the residual fire. I expect that usually, the would have blasted a car fire until was completely out, but that would have damaged the bodies.

Exclusive: TX Chief Talks Challenges of Tesla Crash Fire

"I was impressed by the amount of heat ... that really destroyed the car in a relatively quick time," said The Woodlands fire chief about a recent fatal Tesla Model S accident...

www.firehouse.com

They had to passively cool for several hours due the amount of stored electricity that was escaping causing heat/self ignition, and unlike fire electricity will survive the absence of oxygen

 

[WXman]

To me electric vehicles are a joke because we don't have the power generation plants to support a complete conversion to electric powered vehicles. Our ignorant federal government is eliminating coal & natural gas fired power plants, nuclear energy is dead so what are we going to do for more power needs not less? Wind turbines? Solar cells? Some states have rolling blackouts when its extremely hot because they cant even support people using their AC! I just cant see these vehicles as replacing gas/diesel powered vehicles. Then when you get into towing capabilities and maximum driving range you open up even more questions. Maybe these things are great for big city commuters but they don't make sense for everyone. We should not let the federal government force consumer behavior by making fuel so expensive they force us to convert to these political ideals.

That's the way the party currently in office always operates. They artificially create problems, or make up "problems" that do not exist, and then they present themselves as the solution to those problems. It's their way of trying to hold onto power and control the people.

Yet, I don't see folks knocking down the doors asking for EVs, do you? Nope.

It's a chicken and egg problem (electricity production vs. consumption), but technological innovation is inevitable. You can ignore it, complain about it, or profit from it

We've been hearing that for how long now? And yet, despite all of the COMPLETE change in society, here we are 120 years later with ICE engines. ICE has never gone away and will never go away because it's the most practical way to do it.

Just look at the new Jeep Gladiator/Wrangler 4xe that they're showing off now. It'll go 20ish miles on pure electric power at between $0.09 and $0.16 cents per mile depending on where you live, and then has to use gasoline power at $0.11 cents per mile after that. And it takes 12-14 hours to charge the battery with a standard household outlet. What a joke. The same vehicle with EcoDiesel engine can travel 500+ miles at $0.13 cents per mile without ever looking for a place to find a power outlet.

We won't even get into how battery packs are the "dirtiest" things on vehicles that the environment has ever seen, or how the electric grid isn't ready for 200,000,000 vehicles being plugged into it every day, or how all that electricity is mainly generated with fossil fuels.

 

[SpeedyV]

We've been hearing that for how long now? And yet, despite all of the COMPLETE change in society, here we are 120 years later with ICE engines. ICE has never gone away and will never go away because it's the most practical way to do it.

We won't even get into how battery packs are the "dirtiest" things on vehicles that the environment has ever seen, or how the electric grid isn't ready for 200,000,000 vehicles being plugged into it every day, or how all that electricity is mainly generated with fossil fuels.

No need to politicize this here; there are plenty of news channels for that. There are existing threads that go there, too.

You’re right, of course, that internal combustion has served us well. And battery tech has been a limiting factor. And while the electric grid may have evolved more than you think, fossil fuels are still a dominant energy source. I don’t think anyone disagrees.

But progress is inevitable, especially as the world begrudgingly begins to recognize that finite natural resources are, indeed, finite. Also, we already know that EVs have significant torque advantages; a locomotive is similar to a range-extended hybrid.

Even Jay Leno praised the arrival of the EV, as it will “save” his amazing collection of vehicles to be seen/used as pleasure machines. He compared this to the horse, which was largely a work animal or “tool” 100 years ago and is bred for sport or pleasure.

If this shift to EVs takes another decade or more, I won’t mind a bit. I’ve always loved the rumble of a V8. But that doesn’t mean I won’t invest in battery tech and similar opportunities...

 

[Scram1500]

Even Jay Leno praised the arrival of the EV, as it will “save” his amazing collection of vehicles to be seen/used as pleasure machines. He compared this to the horse, which was largely a work animal or “tool” 100 years ago and is bred for sport or pleasure.

I saw that episode of Top Gear in 2008. The car James May was driving in that segment was a Hydrogen fuel cell Honda and that is probably the future of electric cars, but there is stigma with Hydrogen due to it's explosive nature, and the people making batteries aren't thrilled with the idea. I'd argue it's just as dangerous as gasoline or the potential energy stored in a half ton battery.

Politicians should learn the art of sales, because their current tactic of selling me on an electric vehicle isn't working. Maybe they can just pass some laws and get us all in line

 

[dandar]

I'll consider it when I can drive 300+ miles on a charge and re-charge in 15-20 minutes. Until then the current RAM is a better road trip vehicle. On my 33 gallon tank I can easily go 450-500 miles and be back on the road after less than 10 minute fillup.

 

[SpeedyV]

I'll consider it when I can drive 300+ miles on a charge and re-charge in 15-20 minutes. Until then the current RAM is a better road trip vehicle. On my 33 gallon tank I can easily go 450-500 miles and be back on the road after less than 10 minute fillup.

Agreed!

 

[Dragonmaster13]

Diesel hybrid, or hydrogen hybrid is likely the future. Need something that doesn't take hours to fill up and provides both range and power. Electric provides power, but not range and takes forever to fill. Either that or Bill Gates new pocket fusion generators :haha:

 

[Drewster]

Diesel hybrid, or hydrogen hybrid is likely the future. Need something that doesn't take hours to fill up and provides both range and power. Electric provides power, but not range and takes forever to fill. Either that or Bill Gates new pocket fusion generators :haha:

Not to mention that a Diesel electric Hybrid would be one of the best ways to help diesels survive. Diesel bros typically hate on electric for the political reasons above, coal roll Priuses, blah blah blah... but a Diesel fueled Hybrid would have fewer emissions components since it can be optimized to run in a narrow range of load and RPM, and the electric motor could churn out more torque reliably than any typical engine transmission combo.

 

[SBrentnall]

They had to passively cool for several hours due the amount of stored electricity that was escaping causing heat/self ignition, and unlike fire electricity will survive the absence of oxygen

That's not what the Fire Chief said. He specifically said that they couldn't be as aggressive as usual because of the presence of bodies in the vehicle.

 

[SBrentnall]

I'll consider it when I can drive 300+ miles on a charge and re-charge in 15-20 minutes. Until then the current RAM is a better road trip vehicle. On my 33 gallon tank I can easily go 450-500 miles and be back on the road after less than 10 minute fillup.

You can do that right now if you only need a passenger car, but there isn't a truck I know of that can do this, and certainly not while towing.

 

[SBrentnall]

How many people have burned up in car fires though?

I did a little research, and found these stats:

• In 2019, there were 189,500 highway vehicle fires reported in the United States which caused 550 civilian deaths.
• In 2018, 490 civilians died from highway vehicle fires.
• In 2004, more people died in car fires than in apartment fires (550 people)
• From 1992 - 2002, an average of 1 person per day died as a result of a vehicle fire
• Approx 171,500 vehicles catch fire in the US every year, resulting in an average of 345 deaths
• If you compare fires per billion miles driven, Tesla claims it had 5 fires per billion miles, whereas gasoline cars have 55. (Data from Tesla, so cannot be independently verified)

Sources:

Vehicle Fires Figure Significantly in Fire Death, NFPA Study Shows

Vehicle fires claimed more lives in the United States in 2004 than apartment fires, according to a new study conducted by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA). The ...

www.ehstoday.com

How Often Do Cars Catch on Fire? | Thomas Law Offices

Car fires are rare, but they do happen. How often do they happen and what are the causes? Here is what you need to know about car fires.

www.thomaslawoffices.com

U.S. highway vehicle fires: civilian deaths 1980-2021 | Statista

In 2021, there were 174,000 highway vehicle fires reported in the United States which caused 650 civilian deaths.

www.statista.com

 

[Buz]

Not to mention that a Diesel electric Hybrid would be one of the best ways to help diesels survive. Diesel bros typically hate on electric for the political reasons above, coal roll Priuses, blah blah blah... but a Diesel fueled Hybrid would have fewer emissions components since it can be optimized to run in a narrow range of load and RPM, and the electric motor could churn out more torque reliably than any typical engine transmission combo.

Diesel = Expensive
Electric = Expensive
Pickup Truck = Expensive
Diesel/Electric Pickup Truck = Super Expensive.
Most diesel bros' won't/don't have the cash to pony up for a $70,000 - $100,000+ pickup.
I agree it will be a kickass vehicle, but holy hell they're going to cost a fortune.

 

[Drewster]

I did a little research, and found these stats:

• In 2019, there were 189,500 highway vehicle fires reported in the United States which caused 550 civilian deaths.
• In 2018, 490 civilians died from highway vehicle fires.
• In 2004, more people died in car fires than in apartment fires (550 people)
• From 1992 - 2002, an average of 1 person per day died as a result of a vehicle fire
• Approx 171,500 vehicles catch fire in the US every year, resulting in an average of 345 deaths
• If you compare fires per billion miles driven, Tesla claims it had 5 fires per billion miles, whereas gasoline cars have 55. (Data from Tesla, so cannot be independently verified)

Sources:

Vehicle Fires Figure Significantly in Fire Death, NFPA Study Shows

Vehicle fires claimed more lives in the United States in 2004 than apartment fires, according to a new study conducted by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA). The ...

www.ehstoday.com

How Often Do Cars Catch on Fire? | Thomas Law Offices

Car fires are rare, but they do happen. How often do they happen and what are the causes? Here is what you need to know about car fires.

www.thomaslawoffices.com

U.S. highway vehicle fires: civilian deaths 1980-2021 | Statista

In 2021, there were 174,000 highway vehicle fires reported in the United States which caused 650 civilian deaths.

www.statista.com

Sounds about right. As someone who owns a fire suit and drives race cars, I can tell you that anyone who is more concerned about a battery combusting than gasoline has never actually set gasoline on fire. Gasoline burns fast, violent, and smoky, with no way for the car to warn you about it. Not to mention that gas cars can also light up from oil leaks, brake fluid leaks, power steering leaks, and of course electrical fires.

Electric cars have temp sensors embedded in the packs, so the only way for them to suddenly combust without warning is a manufacturing defect or a BIG piece of debris jamming into the pack.

 

[Drewster]

Diesel = Expensive
Electric = Expensive
Pickup Truck = Expensive
Diesel/Electric Pickup Truck = Super Expensive.
Most diesel bros' won't/don't have the cash to pony up for a $70,000 - $100,000+ pickup.
I agree it will be a kickass vehicle, but holy hell they're going to cost a fortune.

The Cummins is already a $9,400 option to a Ram 2500... [edit] and most of that is because of the crazy amount of emissions hardware. Just taking the F150 as an example, the diesel engine costs MORE than the Hybrid system and turbo ecoboost engine. If you could pull the crazy emissions off the Diesel to where it was closer to a gas engine, you wouldn't have that discrepancy.

 

[SBrentnall]

Electric cars have temp sensors embedded in the packs, so the only way for them to suddenly combust without warning is a manufacturing defect or a BIG piece of debris jamming into the pack.

I seem to remember that the latter what caused the early Tesla fires, which is why they added a big titanium shield to the undercarriage.

 

[SpeedyV]

Diesel hybrid, or hydrogen hybrid is likely the future. Need something that doesn't take hours to fill up and provides both range and power. Electric provides power, but not range and takes forever to fill. Either that or Bill Gates new pocket fusion generators :haha:

 

[AdamChandler]

We've owned Teslas since the first Roadster, and I just ordered a Limited. While I love Tesla for a daily driver, there isn't a viable electric truck now that has the range while towing. But once there is, I'll switch in a heartbeat. I love being able to leave the house every day with a full "tank." and I love the lack of emissions. Plus when you compare cradle-to-grave impact on the environment (including electricity generation vs petroleum production and battery disposal), EVs are better for the environment.

My guess is we're about 5 years, minimum, away from viable electric trucks. Until then, I'll enjoy my Limited

Just quoting you to say how cool it is you had an original roadster. I rode in one of those once when I lived in SF and one of my VC friends in Palo Alto had one. It definitely felt like the future..that was around 2009 or so? Anyway, it was cool to ride in and awesome to be one of the few that experienced the Tesla Story. I’m rooting for Tesla because they’re 100% American, it’s a startup story, they’re up against a huge industry and they’re seemingly learning from mistakes and pushing technology forward. I hope they can crack it and go truly mainstream. It’s a great success story. On a personal note, I think Elon gets TOO much love from consumers but living among startup founders for years, his personality type isn’t unique, he’s just managed to successfully start / bring up a few companies and find an exit and so for that, he deserves respect as an entrepreneur.

 

[jimchi]

I am an electrical engineer who has spent most of my career in the electric utility industry. My experience involves the design of electric distribution system installations including the latest generation of distribution smart grid equipment; as well as the design, installation, and testing of transmission/substation control equipment. I also have some experience in the planning and operation of bulk power operations, i.e., the transmission grid. For the last four years I have been in the forensic investigation industry, where I have investigated numerous incidents involving vehicle fires; including fossil fuel vehicles, battery powered vehicles, and hybrids.

There are some opinions in this thread that are incorrect regarding the specific challenges facing the power grid as our country increasingly electrifies. It's not one single issue - what is needed is widespread investment and deployment in renewables, transmission capacity, distribution smart grid, storage, reactive power compensation (this is a big one that is never talked about, basically it means voltage support), et. al. There are a lot of arguments against this investment, but honestly, Rome wasn't built in a day. We need to move in this direction if we are to survive as a species.

As to the vehicle fires, yes, lithium chemistry batteries *can* start fires, seemingly out of nowhere. These fires could be due to a number of factors, e.g. manufacturing defects, software errors, component failure, etc. The big issue is the storage and disposal of a battery electric vehicle that has been involved in a fire. There is a lot of energy stored in the battery packs that can be very hard to discharge after a fire because the circuits have been severed. Its not uncommon for a battery electric vehicle to start on fire again hours or even days after the initial fire. Some fire departments have taken to immersing battery electric vehicles in giant tanks of salt water in order to cool the packs and attempt to discharge any remaining energy (by shorting through the conductive saltwater). Fire departments are constantly training, and electric vehicles have been part of that curriculum since hybrids started becoming popular.

While I plan on keeping my 2021 1500 about a decade, I've already made the decision that my next vehicle is going to be all electric. By that time a lot of the challenges with range, charging speed, grid capacity, etc., should have better solutions than we have today. My job has me driving ~500mi/day max, and I believe that we'll be seeing pickups that meet or exceed that range in ten years. I look forward to seeing what the market has available when its time to give up my V8 habit.

 

[theblet]

I think electric vehicles have their purpose. Like In big cities where smog is terrible and folks need to drive 20 minutes to their office building. Not feasible for long trips where you have to stop and charge for an hour two or three times.

kinda defeats the purpose when you are using fossil fueled electric plants to charge electric vehicles tho.