180 degree thermostat

[Ready Go]

I took a closer look and there is a preinstalled black rubber gasket on the tstat.
All other things equal, heatsoak is real and higher temps will rob power. Lower temps and you can throw more timing at it the engine without knock. I should grabbed the diablesport trinity tuner before the new year, they had a sale $200 off! I do plan on acquiring this when im changing the tstat to take full advantage of the tstat and existing I/E mod.

There you go, that looks correct

 

[fishslayer]

Yes, it is more efficient with hotter combustion chamber. Better fuel burn.

If it is so much bdtter why do all makers keep their engines in the 200 to 215 range? Because 240 is to close to boiling with 50/50 mix and risks gasket failures and detonation.. it leaves no margin of error for hills, towing ,passinh and hot weather traffic .come down here in the swamp and run your engine at 240...You will be calling a tow truck soon..

 

[fishslayer]

There you go, that looks correct

Exactly..my new Stingray runs at 160 to 175 degrees.
I wonder of the designers just didnt know 240 degrees is better? Lol. It sure makes a lot of power at cooler temps.

 

[fishslayer]

NASCAR engines run at 250+ degrees. I know drag racers that don't run any coolant and can hit over 250 degrees by the end of the pass. Sure, they aren't as worried with long lifespan, but how much does the heat really effect long term durability, as long as the oil is still doing its job

So you re happy getting a dozen qtr miles out of your engine and then rebuilding it? I rather it last 250k

 

[Ready Go]

Exactly..my new Stingray runs at 160 to 175 degrees.
I wonder of the designers just didnt know 240 degrees is better? Lol. It sure makes a lot of power at cooler temps.

As HSKR R/T stated, efficiency and burn are factors, but engineers are mandated to use these temps for emissions factors primarily I'd bet. Hotter temps, and hotter exhaust temps are needed to get the cats up to temp as fast as possible for emissions to be met.

 

[stevieb92]

As an engineer, I understand about requirement flowdown, and having to live within that specification. I speculate that the increased operating temp is driven primarily by the emissions regulations. Remember, when your engine runs hotter, everything will be hotter in that engine compartment. What is one of the most common killer of batteries? Heat (and cold). Because the trans oil cooler is tied into the engine radiator, it will also run hotter. I am running a 180 Stant thermostat and my highway running temps have dropped between 20-25 F over stock. When I'm in stop and go traffic, it will get hot to the normal temp when the fan kicks on and then it will come back down. Most of my driving is highway so I'll take that temp drop. I've also replaced my battery with an Odyssey H8, so I've got a good battery rather than the OEM unit. Once I get the trans temp bypass installed, the next thing is to get rid of the oil cooler that is tied into the engine coolant and make it standalone. I've seen that style fail all too often and you end up with a milkshake in the cooling system before you know it.

 

[HSKR R/T]

If it is so much bdtter why do all makers keep their engines in the 200 to 215 range? Because 240 is to close to boiling with 50/50 mix and risks gasket failures and detonation.. it leaves no margin of error for hills, towing ,passinh and hot weather traffic .come down here in the swamp and run your engine at 240...You will be calling a tow truck soon..

For the reason you stated. Margin or error because your average car owner isn't paying attention to the gauges until the idiot lights start flashing in their face. And even then, many don't know what or why the lights are on.

If running cooler was so much better why do they set the efan temps to come on well oast the thermostat temp? Was have a 203/205(somewhere in there) thermostat from factory. Efans don't turn on until mid 220s. But of course if you aren't monitoring actual engine remoz and no my relied on the needle style gauge, you would never know because the needle doesn't move from about 190-220 degrees.

 

[HSKR R/T]

So you re happy getting a dozen qtr miles out of your engine and then rebuilding it? I rather it last 250k

It's funny you even try to bring that up. Most people swapping to colder thermostats are racers trying to keep engine cooler so they can run higher timing, which is harder on the engine. I'd bet you find more 250k mile modern vehicles on the road that have maintained factory thermostat temp than those who have installed a 180 thermostat.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Exactly..my new Stingray runs at 160 to 175 degrees.
I wonder of the designers just didnt know 240 degrees is better? Lol. It sure makes a lot of power at cooler temps.

You must have an older classic Stingray, because all the modern ones run the same temps as our Hemis And it may be hard for some to comprehend, but technology, tuning, and even engineering concepts have changed a lot since the 60s and 70s.

 

[BowDown]

Im not so sure engineers are perfect..My C 5 Corvette was programed by engineers for primary fan to engage at 228 degrees and secondsry fan at 236 degrees..Anhbody here feel comfortable with your motor running daily at 236 degrees? And is tje engine more efficient at that temp? I quickly changed that .

It is more efficient the hotter it is, a cooler thermostat and the fan settings are for cars/trucks that are under heavy load for long periods of time; the temps under load will still go up to 220°+, they just won't go much higher. I have an external oil cooler in my car and a dewitts radiator; when driving hard, my oil temps still rise to 220-240° and water temps in the 215-225° range but they cool down quicker. Personally, I'd like to see the oil temps stay in the 230-250° range, that's not hot for synthetic oil. The hotter the combustion chamber, the more power you'll make, the only real reason you want a cool running engine is that you want the intake ports in the cylinder head to stay as cool as possible.

 

[BowDown]

I can state from fact that when I put a 180° t-stat in my truck, the mileage went to absolute **** and the truck made no more power. Yes the engine ran cooler but to what benefit? After 2 weeks of the 180° and verifying that the loos in economy, I replaced the 180 with the factory t-stat and my mileage returned. Only transmissions like cooler temps and that's still 180-210°.

Modern clutches transmissions today don't operate properly outside 175-220° meaning you'll burn up the clutches from slippage if the trans is too cool or too hot

Modern transmission clutches operate best in a fluid temperature range of 175°F to 220°F (79°C to 104°C), with lower temps (around 170-190°F) ideal for cruising and higher temps (up to 220-230°F) during towing or heavy loads, but consistently exceeding 240°F starts degrading fluid and causing varnish, while temps above 295°F can lead to immediate clutch material breakdown.

 

[HSKR R/T]

It is more efficient the hotter it is, a cooler thermostat and the fan settings are for cars/trucks that are under heavy load for long periods of time; the temps under load will still go up to 220°+, they just won't go much higher. I have an external oil cooler in my car and a dewitts radiator; when driving hard, my oil temps still rise to 220-240° and water temps in the 215-225° range but they cool down quicker. Personally, I'd like to see the oil temps stay in the 230-250° range, that's not hot for synthetic oil. The hotter the combustion chamber, the more power you'll make, the only real reason you want a cool running engine is that you want the intake ports in the cylinder head to stay as cool as possible.

Don't try and inject reason and facts into the conversation. Cooler is better because my grandpappy told me they never ran thermostats at all back in his day and his old carbureted big block never missed a lick. I run a 180 thermostat in my 1966 D100 with factory original 318 Poly because that's what it called for when it was built.

As for fan settings and thermostat temo, if you are overheating with the factory thermostat and fan settings(as in the fans can't cool engine back down when they kick on), switching to a colder thermostat isn't going to fix your issue. Now if you changed other stuff, at the same time as the thermostat, flushed the old coolant and made sure radiator was clean, then it started cooling better, it was probably more from the coolant flush than the thermostat change.

 

[silver billet]

Once I get the trans temp bypass installed, the next thing is to get rid of the oil cooler that is tied into the engine coolant and make it standalone. I've seen that style fail all too often and you end up with a milkshake in the cooling system before you know it.

If you have details if/when you get around to it, I'd love to hear what you do for this.

 

[fishslayer]

You must have an older classic Stingray, because all the modern ones run the same temps as our Hemis And it may be hard for some to comprehend, but technology, tuning, and even engineering concepts have changed a lot since the 60s and 70s.

Its a 2023 Stingray with only 7k on it..not old.... it does not run 210 like my Ram, I assure you..but I also have a 99 and an 81. Both run 180 t0 190 now..the 99 gets 28mpg so it must be pretty efficient at that temp.It is a myth that hot engine make more power....COLD AIR makes more power and cooler headz allow more timing.....you vuys can run yours at 240 if you like...I would never allow an engine go run that hot..ever

 

[BowDown]

Its a 2023 Stingray with only 7k on it..not old.... it does not run 210 like my Ram, I assure you..but I also have a 99 and an 81. Both run 180 t0 190 now..the 99 gets 28mpg so it must be pretty efficient at that temp.It is a myth that hot engine make more power....COLD AIR makes more power and cooler headz allow more timing.....you vuys can run yours at 240 if you like...I would never allow an engine go run that hot..ever

Cold dense air has more oxygen in it and thusly makes more power, it's the same reasoning that meth and e85 make more power, they cool the intake air and add octane allowing for more ignition timing. BUT It's the heat from the combustion process that makes power, read below

It takes about 2,500 BTUs of heat energy to produce one horsepower (this includes the heat loss out the tailpipe and that absorbed by the cooling system). Based on these numbers, a 300 horsepower engine would generate about 750,000 BTUs of heat energy per hour at full throttle. A 400 horsepower engine would burn over a million BTUs per hour with the pedal to the metal. As the power level goes up, so does the waste heat produced by the motor. https://www.enginebuildermag.com/20...-heat-keeping-cool-heat-handling-accessories/

Understanding this, by lowering the engine operating temp, you're lowering the heat energy produced directly affecting horsepower. The only time "cooler" makes power or more power is in terms of cooler air flowing through the intake manifold and the intake ports in the heads

There's negative trade-offs from running too cool

A cooler engine also allows a denser air/fuel mixture into the cylinders for more power. But if the temperature is too low or the engine is run without a thermostat, it can be very “cold blooded” and idle poorly, hesitate and stumble until it warms up. Too low of an operating temperature can also increase clearances between the pistons, rings and cylinders, increasing blowby and washing oil off the cylinder walls.

On late model street vehicles with computerized engine controls, the coolant operating temperature affects all kinds of things from when the fuel feedback system kicks in to fuel enrichment, ignition timing and emission functions. Changing the operating temperature with a lower-rated thermostat can really screw things up unless the PCM is reprogrammed for a lower-operating temperature.

Your 99 gets 28 mpg on the highway because of its aero and it's a 3100 lb car. Also, no one said they run the car at 240° but to a point, hotter oil lubricates better. You're not getting a street engine hot enough to break down a modern synthetic though. Normal coolant temps on a C8 are 190-210° while driving and 205-220°

 

[HSKR R/T]

Its a 2023 Stingray with only 7k on it..not old.... it does not run 210 like my Ram, I assure you..but I also have a 99 and an 81. Both run 180 t0 190 now..the 99 gets 28mpg so it must be pretty efficient at that temp.It is a myth that hot engine make more power....COLD AIR makes more power and cooler headz allow more timing.....you vuys can run yours at 240 if you like...I would never allow an engine go run that hot..ever

Yes, cold air charge with higher cylinder temps. That's why you need a true cold air Intake, or somewhat to cool the intake charge. I know it may sound crazy, but you can have a cold intake charge and an engine running 200 degrees coolant temp. At full throttle, there isn't a lot of heat soak getting into the air, I mess your intake is restrictive.

There is also a point where more timing doesn't produce more hp. The Hemi is at about ,28-30 degrees of timing , any more than that and you aren't gaining anything but engine heat. And you can safely run 28 degrees of timing, on 91 octane, with a max power tune, and 210-220 degree engine temps.

As far as your Stingray, you are some sort of an outlier if your engine truly runs that cold from the factory. And that doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Maverik259]

Is there one for the Hurricane?


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[fishslayer]

Yes, cold air charge with higher cylinder temps. That's why you need a true cold air Intake, or somewhat to cool the intake charge. I know it may sound crazy, but you can have a cold intake charge and an engine running 200 degrees coolant temp. At full throttle, there isn't a lot of heat soak getting into the air, I mess your intake is restrictive.

There is also a point where more timing doesn't produce more hp. The Hemi is at about ,28-30 degrees of timing , any more than that and you aren't gaining anything but engine heat. And you can safely run 28 degrees of timing, on 91 octane, with a max power tune, and 210-220 degree engine temps.

As far as your Stingray, you are some sort of an outlier if your engine truly runs that cold from the factory. And that doesn't mean it's good.

I know several that do..And i never said 200 degrees was hot..I said 240 was extreme..

 

[fishslayer]

NASCAR engines run at 250+ degrees. I know drag racers that don't run any coolant and can hit over 250 degrees by the end of the pass. Sure, they aren't as worried with long lifespan, but how much does the heat really effect long term durability, as long as the oil is still doing its job

Please show me a picture of all those dragsters without a radiator or coolant...I would love to see one that can run in the lanes, stage and do a pass without coolant.

 

[BowDown]

Is there one for the Hurricane?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No