2025 Quality

[Ramfancy]

I have an honest question for you, admittetly having nothing to do with 2025 Ram truck quality. I'm asking this as someone who has only ever worked in right to work states and never belonged to a union. I've been employed by two companies for my entire professional life. 7 years with the first company and 34 years with my current employer. I was only laid off one time, which was from the first company I worked for. And I had a job with the second company within 4 weeks of that layoff. I have always been paid a competitive wage with no need for someone to bargain on my behalf for higher wages or better working hours/conditions. State and federal agencies regulate employers. So what is the purpose of a union in this day and age? From the outside looking in it seems that the unions themselves benefit the most from their existence.

Good question, your wages were inevitably buoyed by competing companies, union wages. Your benefits have to compete with union shop as well. When they win better benefits for their employees, you will get them too, eventually. Your companies have to be competitive or they would lose the good employees to union work.

You might not pay dues, but you enjoy many things that the union fights for on a yearly basis. You get the best of both worlds.

Look at countries without unions and see how they treat workers if you doubt this.

 

[DEG]

I just object that they're singling out the U.S.

I suspect that's because Stellantis profits were up 11% last year in spite of profits in the US being down 1%; blamed largely on UAW labor issues.

Regardless of complaints of working conditions in other countries, it appears those other countries are carrying the load while UAW employees in the US still received over $13000 in profit sharing from profits they did not contribute too.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I think this is all sensational nonsense. There is no credibility to the belief that UAW employees are intentionally sabotaging trucks. Stellantis increased profits by 11% in 2023 and UAW employees received $13,860 in profit sharing as a result. The UAW has never been about reducing member paychecks and that's exactly what would happen if they started sabotaging vehicles.

It's not saying the UAW is doing the sabotage, but Stellantis is purposely using subpar quality parts to make it seem like the workers are putting out bad products.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Good question, your wages were inevitably buoyed by competing companies, union wages. Your benefits have to compete with union shop as well. When they win better benefits for their employees, you will get them too, eventually. Your companies have to be competitive or they would lose the good employees to union work.

You might not pay dues, but you enjoy many things that the union fights for on a yearly basis. You get the best of both worlds.

Look at countries without unions and see how they treat workers if you doubt this.

I always find it funny that union people think nobody would get paid well without the unions. My current job is in an industry with no union representation in Nebraska, yet I get paid for above what I was making at last company who had to compete with unions. And I was making more at my last company than an equivalent union employee for my area. Mainly because I didn't lose any money out of my paycheck for required union dues and medical insurance I didn't need.

 

[PetePA]

It's not saying the UAW is doing the sabotage, but Stellantis is purposely using subpar quality parts to make it seem like the workers are putting out bad products.

Which also makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Which also makes absolutely zero sense.

That's what I'm saying. What benefit does it provide for either to sabotage the other. RAM is one of the best selling vehicles Stellantis makes.

 

[Pikeman_66]

Which also makes absolutely zero sense.

I would agree the last thing you want is the end buyer seeing anything remotely like that. the buyers wont buy its the unions fault when its clear the parts are sub par.

 

[mikeru82]

Unions are not all the same. I know nothing about the UAW, but unions are necessary in the airline industry. It would take way too long to explain the benefits of a union in my industry, so I'll just leave it at that.

No worries. It was a pretty basic question. I wasn't looking for an in-depth explanation.

Good question, your wages were inevitably buoyed by competing companies, union wages. Your benefits have to compete with union shop as well. When they win better benefits for their employees, you will get them too, eventually. Your companies have to be competitive or they would lose the good employees to union work.

You might not pay dues, but you enjoy many things that the union fights for on a yearly basis. You get the best of both worlds.

Look at countries without unions and see how they treat workers if you doubt this.

Thanks for your response. That's the beneficial side of unions. And if that's all there was to them I might have a better opinion of them. But I often read about corrupt union bosses and employees being forced to join unions and pay union dues. Most of which is likely blown out of proportion. Which brings up another question for me. How much of those better wages goes straight towards union dues?

I'm not sure it's fair to compare other countries to the US. As I mentioned before, state and federal regulations prevent companies from treating people the way they might be treated in countries without those regulations. I didn't mean to derail the thread with this. I was just curious to hear from someone who appeared to be pro union.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

It's not saying the UAW is doing the sabotage, but Stellantis is purposely using subpar quality parts to make it seem like the workers are putting out bad products.

If they intentionally used "subpar quality" parts, the odds of those parts failing under warranty would be higher, and then the parts would be replaced, under warranty, on their dime.

Whatever money saved on "subpar" quality parts would be spent then, plus the additional labor paid out, at the dealership.

 

[PetePA]

Sounds more like the UAW is the only party purposely trying to sabotage something... that being Stellantis' reputation.

Motive? Possibly to ensure the UAW members continue to align with UAW leadership and not Stellantis.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Sounds more like the UAW is the only party purposely trying to sabotage something... that being Stellantis' reputation.

Motive? Possibly to ensure the UAW members continue to align with UAW leadership and not Stellantis.

This sounds more valid. Read up on the demands of the last negotiation. If UAW got what they actually asked for, they would be the reason the company went under.
32 hour (aka 4 day workweek), 40% raise, etc.

Imagine the overtime that would be paid on a 4 day workweek, in addition to the contract bonuses, on top of the pay raise. The prices everyone is complaining about now would likely be 20% higher, to start, and the added overtime pay would detour the brand straight to bankruptcy.
Their negotiation didnt sound like they had any vested long term interest in the company doing well (or staying open), as long as everyone involved (including their people), got a nice bump in pay.

 

[Dewey]

Just watched this video again and it’s for sure eye-opening.

I don’t care if you pro-union or anti-union that doesn’t matter. We all should be worried.
What bothers me most is reading comments in that video from dealership service techs talking about a major uptick in quality issues lately. Other comments from workers at the assembly plant are equally concerning. Obviously it’s really happening. Seeing all the issues with check engine lights on 2025’s very early with pissed off buyers is not good at all. So much for a proven engine that’s been in Wagoneer’s for a number of years. Sounds like cutting engineering jobs and outsourcing the work is making things even more complicated for resolving these issue. It’s a crapshow any way you look at it.

 

[SD Rebel]

I have a hard time believing this is to relocate factories. Ruin your already shaky reputation to build these vehicles outside off NAFTA?

No, I think it's probably just your normal mixture of cost cutting and incompetence at various levels that is leading to these quality control issues.

 

[CHeYeNNe71]

I have a hard time believing this is to relocate factories. Ruin your already shaky reputation to build these vehicles outside off NAFTA?

No, I think it's probably just your normal mixture of cost cutting and incompetence at various levels that is leading to these quality control issues.

A certain manufacturer's quality went downhill before their move to Mexico and other countries so they could leave US. We had to fix the garbage until the doors closed. Don't be surprised what a company would do.

 

[PetePA]

Just watched this video again and it’s for sure eye-opening.

I don’t care if you pro-union or anti-union that doesn’t matter. We all should be worried.
What bothers me most is reading comments in that video from dealership service techs talking about a major uptick in quality issues lately. Other comments from workers at the assembly plant are equally concerning. Obviously it’s really happening. Seeing all the issues with check engine lights on 2025’s very early with pissed off buyers is not good at all. So much for a proven engine that’s been in Wagoneer’s for a number of years. Sounds like cutting engineering jobs and outsourcing the work is making things even more complicated for resolving these issue. It’s a crapshow any way you look at it.

This is all anecdote and certainly not necessarily a crapshow. Recent actual data shows Ram 1500 has the least issues per truck of all competitors in that class.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Just watched this video again and it’s for sure eye-opening.

I don’t care if you pro-union or anti-union that doesn’t matter. We all should be worried.
What bothers me most is reading comments in that video from dealership service techs talking about a major uptick in quality issues lately. Other comments from workers at the assembly plant are equally concerning. Obviously it’s really happening. Seeing all the issues with check engine lights on 2025’s very early with pissed off buyers is not good at all. So much for a proven engine that’s been in Wagoneer’s for a number of years. Sounds like cutting engineering jobs and outsourcing the work is making things even more complicated for resolving these issue. It’s a crapshow any way you look at it.

It's hard to take that video seriously with the way the creator and all his inside interview comments sound. He kepts trying to say RAM is having issues because of short wire harnesses, which was never mentioned anywhere, simply because that was an issue with the Wagoneers. They never actually say what issues haven't been addressed, at SHAP, that the workers have brought up. Tried to turn a no-start issue into a safety thing. To me, this whole video is just embellishing vagueness to get clicks.

The 2025 is all new engines, all new canbus architecture, there are going to be bugs. Says there are issues that were from engineering, then clains that since they fired all the engineers, that designed the stuff, that's the reason the stuff isn't getting fixed. If there are known issues with the way things were done in egineering, you get rid of the problem people and find someone new to fix it.

 

[SD Rebel]

A certain manufacturer's quality went downhill before their move to Mexico and other countries so they could leave US. We had to fix the garbage until the doors closed. Don't be surprised what a company would do.

Are you talking about Tacomas being built exclusively in Mexico?

That would be an interesting thought, except Toyota is still expanding and investing their production in the US as well.

 

[SD Rebel]

This is all anecdote and certainly not necessarily a crapshow. Recent actual data shows Ram 1500 has the least issues per truck of all competitors in that class.

Good point, though I think that's on initial quality.

That same survey also put Dodge at last place when it came to initial quality.

Weird that two Stellantis brands, one got the highest quality while the other one got the lowest.

 

[CHeYeNNe71]

Are you talking about Tacomas being built exclusively in Mexico?

That would be an interesting thought, except Toyota is still expanding and investing their production in the US as well.

No, not automobile related. Different industry.

 

[SD Rebel]

No, not automobile related. Different industry.

Oh gotcha, now I'm really interested, what company?