mikeru82
Legendary member
Meh, it's not ridiculous if you don't tow or haul anything heavy. If I needed more payload I would have gotten a loaded Limited HD. I really don't like towing anything with a truck that's at the edge of its capability.
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What would you buy?
- Thread starter Ninety-9 SE-L
- Start date
millerbjm
Ram Guru
I'm a big fan of the pentastar 3.6 with the 3.55 rear axle. Wish they offered the Hemi with the 3.55.
See my sig for my upcoming truck. Lots of decisions, and I did consider the Tundra. Even waited for it to come out before ordering the Ram. But, the powertrains and no air suspension confirmed I was going Ram Ecodiesel. Nothing in the Jeep lineup has enough towing and I tried once to have no truck and that only lasted a few months.
I like the rebel look better. But one of my personal goals was to not give anything up that I have in my 2012 f150; one of which is a 6'6" bed. Rebel only coms with the 5'. Can't remember if rebel can go 6 passenger, but I got it in my Laramie just because my center console only collects junk and having seating for 6 gives both my kids options to invite friends on trips.
I like the rebel look better. But one of my personal goals was to not give anything up that I have in my 2012 f150; one of which is a 6'6" bed. Rebel only coms with the 5'. Can't remember if rebel can go 6 passenger, but I got it in my Laramie just because my center console only collects junk and having seating for 6 gives both my kids options to invite friends on trips.
ben b
Active Member
After seeing your message, I agree that the 3.55 would have been the best choice.
It would have given me more towing capability than the 3.21. And, I think it would allow the 8th gear to be used more often for my driving style. This would give me slightly better mileage. A little counter-intuitive that a 3.55 could give better mileage than the 3.21.
I guess I should have talked with millerbjm before I ordered my RAM. But I still love the truck!
Ninety-9 SE-L
Well-Known Member
Interesting read, but man, the data could've been laid out better.
Basically, the first 3 gears of the 3.92 vs 3.21 are:
18.46 vs 15.12
12.31 vs 10.10
08.23 vs 06.74
From there-on, the 3.21 can match the 3.92 by dropping into the next lower gear, and the 3.21 has one final gear ratio for super-low highway RPMs.
I'm a Mechanical Engineer, myself. I'm a noob on this forum, but I feel like I'm about to break your long-running guide, because I kinda disagree with his assessment. I appreciate his calculations and time, but he lost me at this conclusion: The 3.21 gear ratio isn't good for towing at 58-70mph, nor could it reach 70mph on an uphill grade.
That statement seems completely wrong when you consider he just got done saying that the 3.21 has the same 5 upper gear ratios as the 3.92, if simply dropped 1 gear lower on the 3.21. At highway speeds, the 3.21 and 3.92 should feel exactly the same, all you need to do is gear limit to lock out 8th.
If the 3.92 can easily tow in 8th gear going 70mph, why is he claiming that the 3.21 couldn't do the same in 7th? (gear limiting)
-7th on the 3.21 would work, feel, sound, burn, cruise, and accelerate exactly the same as 8th on the 3.92.
-Dropping 1, 2, 3 and up to 4 gears on the 3.21 would be EXACTLY the same as dropping 1, 2, 3 and up to 4 gears on the 3.92 (again, you'd be 1 gear lower)
-Since we're already 1 gear down: 1st and 2nd gear on the 3.21 are actually better than gears 2 and 3 on the 3.92.
-The only thing the 3.21 is really missing is that super-low 1st gear that would get you 18% more final torque off-the-line.
The EcoDiesel revs to, what, 4600rpm?
Midnight edition has 284/45-22 tires (32.1" OD).
1st 18.46 vs 15.12 G/R.
2nd 12.31 vs 10.10 G/R.
3rd 8.23 vs 6.74 G/R.
1st gear on the 3.92 would top me out at 23.8mph
1st gear on the 3.21 would top me out at 29.8mph
2nd gear on the 3.92 would top me out at 35.7mph
2nd gear on the 3.21 would top me out at 43.5mph
3rd gear on the 3.92 would top me out at 53.4mph
3rd gear on the 3.21 would top me out at 65.2mph
Standing start with the throttle buried (shifting at redline):
The 3.92 has the advantage from 0.00-23.8mph
The 3.21 has the advantage from 23.8-29.8mph (because the 3.92 has now changed to a higher gear ratio)
The 3.92 has the advantage from 29.8-35.7mph
The 3.21 has the advantage from 35.7-43.5mph
The 3.92 has the advantage from 43.5-53.4mph
The 3.21 has the advantage from 53.4-65.2mph
From here on out, it's basically the same truck, just 1 gear lower, and assuming you're not drag racing your EcoDiesel with a 10k trailer on the back, technically, the 3.92 only helps from 0-24mph (EcoDiesel)....end of story.
Going back to the Fact that it's an EcoDiesel and the 3rd gen EcoDiesel makes 480ftlbs of torque at 1600RPM, I'm not that concerned about not being able to get off the line with the 3.21, even if I have 18% less torque at the tires. Lastly, because I'm looking at the EcoDiesel and Diesel engines are designed to run more at lower RPMs. I'll probably appreciate that 3.21 at highway speeds:
71mph = 1600RPM at a 2.15 final drive ratio. 1600RPMs is the EcoDiesel's 480ft.lb sweet spot.
1000lb payload is ridiculous when you consider that 4 adults and some very basic daily-carry is your capacity.
I joke about seating capacity vs. payload/cargo...especially when I talk about 3-row SUVs. If your vehicle has the ability to carry 7 or 8 people, it better have enough room to carry their stuff. The Ram can comfortably seat 5 adults, It should have enough payload to carry 5 adults and 5 suitcases.
The Ramboxes will also eat into my payload, unfortunately, but I'm thinking that's the only option that might be worth the cost. I want to have a dry place to store/lock stuff, plus it has a 115V outlet.
Thanks for the info. I also like the look of the Rebel, but the Laramie seems to have more options. I didn't realize I could get a long bed.
Also, same boat, I was waiting to see the new Tundra before pulling the trigger. I didn't realize builds were so far out.
Ninety-9 SE-L
Well-Known Member
Oh, I wanted to ask. I've bought several new cars before, but only off the lot. I've never had something custom factory-built.
What's the process like? I imagine you still have to choose a dealership for delivery. What are the fees involved and is there any room for negotiating?
millerbjm
Ram Guru
I recently did my 1st factory order and can share my lessons.
1. It is better than a lot purchase if you can wait. You getvexactly what you want and it is easier to negotiate price as you're comparing the identical truck at multiple dealers.
2. Yes you need a dealer to order. Build your truck on the RAM site and send the pdf to multiple dealers for quotes (or just send to Mark Dodge for the lowest price usually).
3. I recommend using a dealership that offers a fully refundable deposit and for me preferably $1,000 or less deposit. Price protection so you don't get hit with increases as you wait. Incentives locked at order or if better at delivery. You should get all of that in writing and signed a d get a POC from the dealer. From there sit back and wait. Make sure to triple read all options on the POC before they submit.
this is my first time so others with more experience will chime in for sure.
If you want the rock bottom price order from Mark Dodge ,fly, drive, or have them ship it you'll still get the lowest price.
Yes, you can negotiate but seems highly dependent on dealer in this environment - some are taking the FCA affiliate rewards pricing of 1% under invoice ( even though the website for that technically says 5th gen ram not eligible). If your employer or someone else doesn't have one I've read that "tread lightly" membership is the cheapest to buy that allows you access to the discounts. But, some dealers probably already sell at that price anyway. Others are even deeper than that ( like mark dodge) and others are trying to charge full MSRP + "market adjustment". I have on my PO a Purchase price, Doc fee, a filing fee, license plate fee, sales tax.
For me, I went in to a salesperson referred to me at my closest dealer with my affilliate code from my employer. Sat at the salesman's desk for 15 minutes with my printout from the ram website noting everything I wanted. He mentioned 2 additional items he saw on the ordering system and I went ahead and added them - paint protection film and the complete trailering package, not just the brake controller. Discussed that I will want the maxcare warranty at cost ( I'm in Michigan and Zeigler that sells those warrantys super cheap is local to me). Discussed that I can get the incentives at time of order or time of delivery, and that would take a bit more off the printout he gave me. i walked out of there with a "priced order confirmation" from the Ram system and a Purchase Order from the dealer. Shook his hand, went home and started waiting. Used the ram chat feature a month later to request my vin ( it was likely generated much sooner but in the beginning I was trying to be patient) . Then started obsessively reading this website daily.
Since I don't know the March incentives I haven't taken any other steps to prepare for the truck to come. I have a build sheet but no window sticker. My dealer happens to be a 'satellite" location for the credit union I do business with. So they should be able to help me figure out which incentives/financing is best - if Ram still has 0% and truck month discounts can stack I may do that. Otherwise the credit union will get the loan.
Call/email Aaron at Mark Dodge. They don't add any BS fees like "Premium Dealer Protect Package" or "Ultimate Nitrogen Tire" nonsense and the price they quote you will very likely beat what you could negotiate anywhere else.
I emailed Aaron with the build I pulled from the Ram site and a few questions. He answered those and put together a Priced Order Confirmation (POC) and I made sure that what I wanted was on there. They do require a $1k nonrefundable deposit, but I knew what I wanted when I ordered it so a non-issue for me.
Once my order was submitted, I waited to get me VIN for a couple days. After that, it was a lot of waiting until I went to D1, which means you're scheduled to be built and have an estimated date. After that, you can pull your VIN every morning looking for the build sheet and window sticker like I did, or just get signed up on the forum's tracker.
Once you have your window sticker, hit up RAM chat to get an estimated ship date, and start working with Aaron to figure out pickup or shipping. I rented a car and drove out. We turned it into a short vacation. You'll also work with the finance office remotely to get everything squared away before you arrive. When I got there, I inspected it, took it on a short test drive, and then I was off.
From start to finish, best experience I've had buying a vehicle.
No RamBox option for the long bed. Keep that in mind.
Yep, pretty much.
We intentionally loaded as light as possible for our last trip to get some weights and see where we are with the bare minimum we'd want to take with us.
CAT Scale Weights:
Steer Axle: 3420
Drive Axle: 3420
Trailer Axle: 3720
Gross Weight: 10560
This means that with only trailer tongue weight, people, pets, and minimal cargo in the truck (snacks, electronics, first aid kit, etc.) we're already at around 1200 lbs of payload. Obviously this is just a baseline, and those numbers will change as I refine our setup, but it does let me know that there's no way I could work with 1k payload.
With 1k lbs of payload, I'd already be well over, and I still want to add a WDH, bed cover, and a generator with an extra 20 lb LP tank. The answer to "I need more than 1k lbs of payload" isn't automatically to get an HD truck, especially when we're talking about a 3,700 lb trailer. Sometimes, the answer is I just don't need all the extras that drop my payload from 1,500 lbs to 1k lbs.
mikeru82
Legendary member
You're right, it would be ridiculous if I ever needed to have 4 or 5 adults in my truck, along with their suitcases. Or if I needed to tow a TT or haul landscaping materials. But that's not the case for me. If I have suitcases in the truck, it is only ever for 2 adults. I won't have any need for seating 5 people and their luggage, so I don't need more than a 1000 lb payload for what I use this truck for. If my situation ever changes and I need more capability, I'll upgrade to something more suited for those needs.
I chose this truck based on our wants and needs. And for those this truck is perfect. Nothing ridiculous about that.
HEMIJAKE
Ram Guru
It doesn't take long to eat up the payload, that's for sure. Both my dad and myself have welded a trailer receiver the rear bumper of our campers (braced to the frame, of course). Aluminum cargo rack from harbor freight, or bicycle carrier goes in it, depending on trip. Firewood, generator, bikes obviously, etc. can go back there. Helps free up some payload if needed. Anything I can put in the trailer as tow weight vs. payload weight, I try to do. For reference, my trailer is dry around 4k pounds.
Ninety-9 SE-L
Well-Known Member
Hmm, that is a pickle. I guess I would still choose the Ramboxes with the short bed. The short bed is still longer than my Frontier, and I don't need volume so much as I want to stay organized.
For the record, the long-box CC is significantly (almost $5k) cheaper than the Short-box CC, with the same options selected and I'm not sure why.
2022 Laramie SBCC 4x2:
3.0 EcoDiesel + 8HP75 Trans + 3.21 Rear Axle
33-gal tank
Advanced Safety Group
Bed Utility Group
Laramie Level 2 Group
Trailer-Tow Group
Night Edition - Billet Silver Metallic
Black Power-fold Trailer Mirrors
5-Passenger
(all other options included in above packages)
$66,995
2022 Laramie LBCC 4x2:
3.0 EcoDiesel + 8HP75 Trans + 3.21 Rear Axle
33-gal tank
Advanced Safety Group
Bed Utility Group
Laramie Level 2 Group
Trailer-Tow Group
Night Edition - Billet Silver Metallic
Black Power-fold Trailer Mirrors
5-Passenger
(all other options included in above packages)
$62,260
The EcoDiesel, 3.21 Axle SBCC 4x2 should offer me 8250lbs of towing. 9950 if I went with the 3.92.
Let's just say 10k tow capacity for simplicity. A safe tongue weight would be 1000-1500lbs (10-15%). Well, that's a problem. Unless my 1st grader is behind the wheel and depending on what she had for breakfast, I've already exceeded the truck's payload.
...So this might be a bad take to some, and maybe if the DOT is conducting random passenger vehicle searches or you happen to live at the top of a mountain, this might not be the best advice. I take the sticker capacities with a grain of salt:
-The 5th gen Ram 1500 is rated at 6000-7800lb GVWR (class 2a), with a maximum of 11,900-18,350lb GCWR.
-It has a Front/Rear axle rating of 3700/4100 (7800lb) regardless of configuration, basically meaning that the truck can PHYSICALLY handle that total weight.
-The sticker capacities determined by the DOT and it strays from the 7,800/18,350 physical limits due to the curb-weight, as configured, and how hard the Engine will strain based on the drivetrain selection.
I live in Florida, and unless I were seeking a mountain 700mi away, I'm going to be less inclined to listen to the DOT sticker value and simply load my truck based on the trip I plan to make. The Laramie can be configured at 4989-5372lb curb weight (dry). Add another 250-300lb for fuel/fluids, and the GVWR of 6800-6900lb, you end up with about 1100-1200lbs Payload, as recommended by the DOT. Go back to the 7800lb physical limit of the 1500, you really have about 2000-2300lbs of payload capacity before you exceed the truck's physical rating, although you might look ridiculous.
If you have your family loaded with some suitcases in the back and you're exceeding your rated payload capacity, it's still FAR better than if you were putting that same amount of weight above or behind just the rear axle. The stickers provide guidance for the lowest common denominator. Plan your route, weight, and distribution accordingly.
Ninety-9 SE-L
Well-Known Member
Just saying, things like that should be planned by the manufacturer.
A 1/2 ton pickup truck probably shouldn't have less payload (in any configuration) than a Honda Accord. JMO.
mikeru82
Legendary member
LOL...good one, Honda Accord.
I will point out that pick-ups are classified as half ton, three quarter ton, one ton, based on their rated payload capacities. So, by definition a half ton pickup would have a half ton payload. Most people seem to want as much payload as they can have. Which is fine. And makes sense for those who tow or haul things/people. More power to you. The great thing is that we have choices in these matters. You choose your truck and I'll choose mine. All that matters is that a person chooses the one that works for them. Not sure how this turned into a bash the guy with the lowest payload, but I'm happy to be that guy. Good luck with your buying decision. Hopefully you won't have issues with the parts shortages in getting the options you want.
My camper came with a rear receiver, which we'll be using for our bikes. We also have a storage rank on the tongue that we'll use to store a Pelican case. We only have two exterior storage compartments. One of them is a slide-out kitchen, and the other is full of set-up gear (electric, water, sewer, tools, etc.). Storage space in the trailer is at a premium, so not as much room for adjustment as a lot of other campers.
HEMIJAKE
Ram Guru
Makes sense, I completely understand. We almost bought one with an outdoor kitchen. Somedays I wish we had. Foldout tables and my blackstone can be a real pain to organize. We have really cleaned out what we don't really need though, that helps a lot. In the beginning, we took so much crap we never used. Just a waste of time and weight.
I also live in Florida, but we'll be towing all over the country for the next few years, or longer if we decide to just go full time in the camper.
I know the truck is easily capable of towing our camper and hauling all of our gear. I still need to pay attention to those numbers. For me, I'm more concerned about civil liability with as much as I tow. Gross negligence is a reality and I'm not willing to knowingly go an ounce over my truck's stated rating. That's what I'm comfortable with. I'll never sit here and tell anyone else what they should be comfortable with.
My favorite part about the outdoor kitchen is the Dometic fridge/freezer. We can keep drinks and prepped meals in there and it makes them easy to grab when we stop to gas up and/or stretch our legs/backs.
I'm with you on minimalization. With this one, we started with the essentials and are working our way up with nice-to-haves.
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