So I called FCA about Harman Kardon system.

[Agustinacosta]

So I called FCA about the H/K sound system, y told them I was really disappointed with the quality of this “premium sound system”. I ask the guy if I could bring the truck to a dealer to see if they can do something about that, I bought a 65000$ truck and my 50$ sound bar sounds better. So he said that the engineers are working to solve this issue because I’m not the only one. He said that before this year end an update will be available for the system, so I replied to him that I’m not an fca engineer (in fact I’m a computer engineer) I feel really that it’s really hard to download a physical mosfet and attach them to the amp outputs, so he said that they can do it , at that moment I realize this will be a long road. Anyways i explained to him that i meant that there’s a lack of power in the sound system, there’s nothing a software can do there. So far I think I have to wait.

 

[SpeedyV]

So I called FCA about the H/K sound system, y told them I was really disappointed with the quality of this “premium sound system”. I ask the guy if I could bring the truck to a dealer to see if they can do something about that, I bought a 65000$ truck and my 50$ sound bar sounds better. So he said that the engineers are working to solve this issue because I’m not the only one. He said that before this year end an update will be available for the system, so I replied to him that I’m not an fca engineer (in fact I’m a computer engineer) I feel really that it’s really hard to download a physical mosfet and attach them to the amp outputs, so he said that they can do it , at that moment I realize this will be a long road. Anyways i explained to him that i meant that there’s a lack of power in the sound system, there’s nothing a software can do there. So far I think I have to wait.

I understand your points, but software improvements WILL be helpful...especially if they enable some control over the system amplification and/or equalization (beyond a basic 3-band EQ and 1 surround mode).

 

[DeanKing]

So I called FCA about the H/K sound system, y told them I was really disappointed with the quality of this “premium sound system”. I ask the guy if I could bring the truck to a dealer to see if they can do something about that, I bought a 65000$ truck and my 50$ sound bar sounds better. So he said that the engineers are working to solve this issue because I’m not the only one. He said that before this year end an update will be available for the system, so I replied to him that I’m not an fca engineer (in fact I’m a computer engineer) I feel really that it’s really hard to download a physical mosfet and attach them to the amp outputs, so he said that they can do it , at that moment I realize this will be a long road. Anyways i explained to him that i meant that there’s a lack of power in the sound system, there’s nothing a software can do there. So far I think I have to wait.

Just the fact that they acknowledged a problem is a real positive. Maybe their engineers figure out the problem and it is hardware. Maybe the crossovers are not set correctly and too much power is going to the wrong channels (not saying that is it, but it could be something like that). Perhaps they fix it on the assembly line and put out a TSB and then if an existing customer complains, we get the TSB applied. Thank you for sticking with it and trying to get it improved for everyone.

I am really curious to take delivery of my truck and see for myself. "Loud enough" is one of those things like "cold enough". On my test drive, I never cranked it but it sounded OK at moderate volumes. I want to feel some bass and still have clarity in the other channels and at normal listening volume, my test drive truck seemed to do that. My iPhone has a decibel meter app. When I get my truck, I will crank it to the highest level without distortion and take a reading. According to https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hearing_loss.html anything sustained at 85 DB damages hearing so if the system goes that loud, I have to wonder what we should be expecting. Since I don't have a truck, I am not challenging that this is not loud enough. Also, if FCA admits there is a problem they are working on, that is pretty strong evidence of a problem. I wonder if it all trucks or just some? Can we bring some measurements to the discussion?

 

[Strictly Gravy]

In for more info as it comes available. I'm extremely unimpressed with the stereo in my LH.

 

[Agustinacosta]

Just the fact that they acknowledged a problem is a real positive. Maybe their engineers figure out the problem and it is hardware. Maybe the crossovers are not set correctly and too much power is going to the wrong channels (not saying that is it, but it could be something like that). Perhaps they fix it on the assembly line and put out a TSB and then if an existing customer complains, we get the TSB applied. Thank you for sticking with it and trying to get it improved for everyone.

I am really curious to take delivery of my truck and see for myself. "Loud enough" is one of those things like "cold enough". On my test drive, I never cranked it but it sounded OK at moderate volumes. I want to feel some bass and still have clarity in the other channels and at normal listening volume, my test drive truck seemed to do that. My iPhone has a decibel meter app. When I get my truck, I will crank it to the highest level without distortion and take a reading. According to https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hearing_loss.html anything sustained at 85 DB damages hearing so if the system goes that loud, I have to wonder what we should be expecting. Since I don't have a truck, I am not challenging that this is not loud enough. Also, if FCA admits there is a problem they are working on, that is pretty strong evidence of a problem. I wonder if it all trucks or just some? Can we bring some measurements to the discussion?

Thanks bro. What you say about the crossovers can be a possibility but, why the truck sound clear with volume halfway? So here is a power problem. These 3 woofers locations is kind a stupid thing, a low frequency travels around better than a high one, what I mean is that with your eyes closed is more difficult to realize where a low note is coming from than a high note, so why put a 3 woofers and not feeding them, also enclosures in doors are not big enough for a woofer sound, maybe a mid bass “more mid than bass” that’s why you read here on several post that the doors rattles.
One thing that really makes me think that it’s a lack of power, or like you said the system distributes power somewhere else is that almost any hip hop or techno song “if not every single song” you throw at it has more bass with the volume halfway than all the way up. Let’s see. I’ll call again next week, to put more pressure on them, cmon guys, all of you that feel the same call and let them know your concerns, that’s our job and their job as well.

 

[Agustinacosta]

I understand your points, but software improvements WILL be helpful...especially if they enable some control over the system amplification and/or equalization (beyond a basic 3-band EQ and 1 surround mode).

3 band is like a joke when you have 19 speakers, and what can I say about surround mode, you know what surround mode is, an old JVC in dash video I had on a optima with 12 speakers and 2 woofers with DTS capabilities and throw a DVD concert on DTS to it, that’s surround, throw a different and exclusive channel untouched by the system to every speaker just modified by the amp for high or low pass.

 

[Han Ridge]

I cranked my HK to 38 just to see what the issue is. I would have thought that with 19 speakers it would have been louder but it was louder then I would normally listen to it at. I will say that even at 38 the sound was still clear and well balanced.

 

[Agustinacosta]

I cranked my HK to 38 just to see what the issue is. I would have thought that with 19 speakers it would have been louder but it was louder then I would normally listen to it at. I will say that even at 38 the sound was still clear and well balanced.

What song you play on it? If it’s a guitar solo or an acoustic session maybe

 

[19RamLimited]

I believe an update can make huge improvements. They can adjust the processing. They can adjust internal amp gains. They have the ability to make changes we can’t but we could if it were an aftermarket amp.

I believe that updates can fix it. They could have phasing issues they could have ANC issues. I heard a huge difference in my 13 alpine with the 16. Series updates and more with 17

I am more than disappointed with my HK system. The fact that you somehow got someone on the phone that admitted what they did and said they are working on it gives me hope.

I hope there are many updates coming to help the 12.1 system. We will see.

 

[Lawdog]

following

 

[Jordan2929]

I also agree that at max volume the woofer is not getting any more power than it would be getting at half volume, and when it hits it seems as though the woofer gets even more power taken away from it thus drowning everything out. This system really falls apart when you want it to be loud but IMO its very clear and crisp at moderate volume levels.

 

[DeanKing]

I also agree that at max volume the woofer is not getting any more power than it would be getting at half volume, and when it hits it seems as though the woofer gets even more power taken away from it thus drowning everything out. This system really falls apart when you want it to be loud but IMO its very clear and crisp at moderate volume levels.

That is an interesting observation. If that is the problem maybe it can be fixed without significant hardware changes.

 

[19RamLimited]

Yes. It can be. These new OEM stereo systems have fail safes built in. They have constant variable crossovers and processing built in. As you increase the volume ther start to turn down frequencies they determine to be damaging to the components. This is done to one prevent damage and two to prevent warranty claims. They can easily back off the processing they have that limits bass frequencies at volumes. For example the user may have bass turned all the way up. Well at low volumes you hear the increase because the OEM determines no damage can be done at that volume. As you turn it up they back it off at 20hz to 60hz and essentially reverse the increase as the volume goes up.

They have total control over everything the audio system does. So if I’m fact they are working on an update I know there is room for improvement in software. Because the amp is all software based.

 

[Ezshooter]

Yes. It can be.

They have total control over everything the audio system does. So if I’m fact they are working on an update I know there is room for improvement in software. Because the amp is all software based.

First - I agree with your points, well written and thought out. One thing I see, expanding on your points, is that every advance amplified system gets a 'system tune' and that this is a critical component of the build. I know its a cookie cutter thing with the same speaker locations, cab size, etc. but how much does manufacturing variances affect the basic tune? Also, we have an advanced system being installed / executed by a factory team that may not have the experience needed (not casting stones, just commenting that this could be a factor). Your point about speakers out of phase is a really good point, very possible in my mind. IMHO, too many variables... I love my HK system, and then I read on our forum about so many disappointed members, I just have to think there is a large amount of variance in system sound from one great truck sound to one not installed or tuned correctly.

 

[Jordan2929]

I think for most of the Harmon Kardon owners its more of a problem with overall volume, the clarity is there (for me at least) but its severely lacking in volume. Which leads me to think that FCA was overly conservative with the software tuning. Its hard to imagine the engineers would design a system that is vastly underpowered, but you never know. btw wouldn't trade this truck for anything else out there.

 

[troutspinner]

I bought an infinity Q50 a few years ago. That had the Bose 13 or 16 (I forget) speaker system in it with 3 10” woofers. At the time, it was regarded as the best stereo system ever put into a car. It sounded great, dynamic, tuned, crystal clear at all volumes BUT you just couldn’t “feel” it.

I think you guys with the HK system are hearing the type of system I described above and it is something you are not use to because it lacks “feel”. I’d wager that if you installed a sub that moves some air, you’d regard it as the best system you’ve ever heard.

That of course doesn’t solve your current problem but I think the design is not by mistake but by intent. I think Ram views the type of buyer who buys this system to be the sophisticated classical / opera type listener like infinity did.

 

[Dodgeboy]

I realize this is anecdotal, but I had an issue with the HK system on my early-build '15 Charger Hellcat as well. I'm fortunate enough to live near Chrysler's Quality Engineering Center, and I volunteered to "donate" my car to them for a few weeks so they could figure out the issue. It turns out there was a wiring issue on all of the Chargers that reversed the orientation of the wires in the amp harness. This caused tweeters and woofers to be swapped, as well as phase issues. They were able to remap the outputs on the amp with software and it made a huge improvement in the sound. This update was later applied to all chargers that complained of audio issues. Anyway, the point of the story is that there *is* hope here. They've succeeded at fixing issues like this with software in the past.

I'll let someone else "donate" their truck to the QEC this time, to get it figured out. Lol. The HK system in my limited actually sounds very, very good except for the door panel vibration with hard bass hits.

 

[19RamLimited]

My opinion is the system itself is good. I’m coming for a 13 that to my ears was as close to an aftermarket audio system I’ve ever heard in an OEM. It had no over powering processing that would limit the output it never stopped getting louder all the way to max volume. The subwoofer is incredible in terms of output and clarity. The whole system never sounded over driven or distorted.

Now my HK sounds extremely processed and “Safe” there on a lot of headroom available to me. It just stops getting loud. It hits a wall.

I’m confident firmware can fix the issues. They can control everything with software in these amps. I don’t think it’s a lack of power or anything.

The overall system sounds good. You can hear the potential. It’s the equivalent of a badly tuned aftermarket audio system to me.

 

[Jimmyk]

I absolutely love my HK system. It blows away the Alpine system I had in my 2014 Longhorn.

 

[RichRios]

I had the HK in my 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee and that was rated at 800w. I’m sure FCA doesn’t use different speakers or amps from HK.... that being said my 15 grand Cherokee HK would shake my side and reverse mirrors and was very clear when I turn the volume all the way up. It was so loud i mostly only went up to 75%. The Ram HK system should be even better rated at 900w. Ram just needs to take the limiters off like Jeep does!!!!!