Whats up with the doors?

[SD Rebel]

That's definitely not in my doors, they may have had a problem with the dies that didn't get corrected right away

I've seen them on every single RAM I've looked at, including my own & brand new 2021s. They are there, it's the natural creases from the stamping die combined with the reflection on the orange peel that makes it easier to see. In certain light, it's nearly impossible to see, in other light, it's very clear. It is harder to see on white cars, really easy on blacks and reds.

 

[LakesAZ]

I looked and looked and then looked again, and I do not have that problem on my doors.

 

[KRField]

No its not, orange peel doesn't hide imperfections. Orange peel is a byproduct of the paint process, specifically how fast or slow the paint flattens out and off gasses

I understand how it happens. It is not just from the solvent flash, but also from air pressure and spray pattern. It can, and is done intentionally. Body shops do it all the time when fixing panels to try and mimic the factory texture finish next to them. The Orange peel hides the imperfections by distorting the optics, and therefore makes the substrate imperfections less visible.


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[BNeal]

With the wafer-thin material they build these vehicles with today, I'm surprised they can hold any shape at all.

 

[OldMarine]

I simply said it isn't a show truck. Nothing silly about that. The guy said he's a perfectionist used to show cars. Maybe its wavy, maybe its just a regular ole' non show truck variety panel.

I have to agree with this...I don't think some guys get your point, which is totally true. Just because we choose to buy a base truck, with a cr*p load of expensive upgrades, that they then call a Laramie, Rebel, Limited...etc..doesn't mean we should expect any different tolerances, gaps, or paint quality, than that base truck...if you do, then you shouldn't be buying an expensive truck, but instead a luxury suv...

 

[OldMarine]

Well, thats like...your opinion, man.

The Dude! lol...excellent

 

[Biga]

I have to agree with this...I don't think some guys get your point, which is totally true. Just because we choose to buy a base truck, with a cr*p load of expensive upgrades, that they then call a Laramie, Rebel, Limited...etc..doesn't mean we should expect any different tolerances, gaps, or paint quality, than that base truck...if you do, then you shouldn't be buying an expensive truck, but instead a luxury suv...

True, but at the same time I would expect quality in a base model as well. Generally you pay more for features and options you should not have to pay more for quality within the same vehicle.

 

[scottmoyer]

Well, I do PDR and also have a couple show cars are detailed to the hilt. I just checked my 2021 Rebel for these "dents" and my truck doesn't have them. I clearly saw them in the video posted, but mine is clean. I'm happy about that as I would be tearing into the door to fix these.

Speaking of which, I did have the driver door panel off due to a small dent above the door handle. This was the only issue I saw when I took possession. I figured I could do a better job than the dealer dent hack, so I finally addressed it today. The body panels are as straight as they're gonna get. i do see small distortions around the exterior door handle, but there's not much that can be done about that. Compound body lines and curved cutouts for door handles do this to the metal.

Regarding the orange peel comments. I agree that it's used to distort the reflection so imperfections are overlooked. This technique has moved into the housing market with wall texture being applied so the drywallers can get away with sloppier work and the texture hides the lack of flatness. Same for ceilings with knockdown or popcorn texture.

 

[OldMarine]

True, but at the same time I would expect quality in a base model as well. Generally you pay more for features and options you should not have to pay more for quality within the same vehicle.

I feel you on this, really...but I think it's just the way it works in domestic truck manufacturing. They have one stamp for each panel, and one type of sheet metal/aluminum, and it's used on every model with the same configuration. So we get what a Tradesman gets...the same way a Ford XL gets the same as a King Ranch. By the way, I double checked my truck a few minutes ago, and I can tell you my door skins and side panels are as straight as can be..and i am a licensed insurance appraiser, with 20 years in the field writing appraisals, and working in shops...guess I got lucky with my truck!

 

[jdmartin]

Well, I do PDR and also have a couple show cars are detailed to the hilt. I just checked my 2021 Rebel for these "dents" and my truck doesn't have them. I clearly saw them in the video posted, but mine is clean. I'm happy about that as I would be tearing into the door to fix these.

Speaking of which, I did have the driver door panel off due to a small dent above the door handle. This was the only issue I saw when I took possession. I figured I could do a better job than the dealer dent hack, so I finally addressed it today. The body panels are as straight as they're gonna get. i do see small distortions around the exterior door handle, but there's not much that can be done about that. Compound body lines and curved cutouts for door handles do this to the metal.

Regarding the orange peel comments. I agree that it's used to distort the reflection so imperfections are overlooked. This technique has moved into the housing market with wall texture being applied so the drywallers can get away with sloppier work and the texture hides the lack of flatness. Same for ceilings with knockdown or popcorn texture.

You beat me to the punch. I was going to say just what you said; we sometimes use orange peel or similar texture on older rental properties that have really tough walls. Texture absolutely makes the wall look better by homogenizing the overall light reflection off the wall by "roughing up" the smooth areas to blend out the really rough areas. If you own really old houses - we have some that are almost 100 years old - you could spend a raft full of money trying to make the walls appear smooth.

 

[BowDown]

I understand how it happens. It is not just from the solvent flash, but also from air pressure and spray pattern. It can, and is done intentionally. Body shops do it all the time when fixing panels to try and mimic the factory texture finish next to them. The Orange peel hides the imperfections by distorting the optics, and therefore makes the substrate imperfections less visible.


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Lol, No.
Yes, orange peel is impacted by air pressure and spray pattern but its not done on intentionally, Orange peel is a function of painting a surface, the ONLY way not to have orange peel is to wet or color sand it down. If ornage peel hide imperfections, you dont know what you're looking at to begin with, i can see body imperfections whether theres orange peel or not. Orange peel is on paint finishes do to the amount of time (expense) it takes to remove it. Its takes about 40+ hours to remove orange peel from paint then cut and polish the paint back to a gloss, thats why orange peel is on everything but exotics with 200k+ price tags #handfinished

 

[BowDown]

Well, I do PDR and also have a couple show cars are detailed to the hilt. I just checked my 2021 Rebel for these "dents" and my truck doesn't have them. I clearly saw them in the video posted, but mine is clean. I'm happy about that as I would be tearing into the door to fix these.

Speaking of which, I did have the driver door panel off due to a small dent above the door handle. This was the only issue I saw when I took possession. I figured I could do a better job than the dealer dent hack, so I finally addressed it today. The body panels are as straight as they're gonna get. i do see small distortions around the exterior door handle, but there's not much that can be done about that. Compound body lines and curved cutouts for door handles do this to the metal.

Regarding the orange peel comments. I agree that it's used to distort the reflection so imperfections are overlooked. This technique has moved into the housing market with wall texture being applied so the drywallers can get away with sloppier work and the texture hides the lack of flatness. Same for ceilings with knockdown or popcorn texture.

I painted cars for 5 years, no shop I worked at nor any shop I know now paints with the intent of using orange peel to hide imperfections.
One thing people need to understand is that you're painted sheet metal, something that is flat to begin with, orange peel is the sole source of the non flat surface on a body panel short of a dent. Exactly what kind of imperfections is orange peel hiding?

 

[Turaco]

A friend of mine works as shift manager at the Sterling Heights Assembly plant. He has seen many of our trucks come off the assembly line.

Over the summer, another friend of mine who had just got a gle350 benz and I went over to his house. The FCA friend couldn't stop but drool over the sheet metal work of the mercedes and mentioned several times how the germans are better at sheet metal than americans.

Prior to my Ram I had jeep GC which my wife drives now, and prior to the jeep I had a cadillac ELR, expensive vehicle at $69k. When I got into a small fender bender and the front bumper had to be replaced, when inspecting the final work, I wasn’t happy with the tolerances, the body shop owner then proceeded to do a 360 around the car with me and showed me multiple imperfections on the cadillac from the factory, misalignments, uneven gaps, even sheet metal imperfections. Now granted, I still made him realign the bumper, but the point is that no production car is perfect, even the germans for that matter.

Regarding the sheet metal, seems like FCA is aware there are issues, but it’s within their tolerances and it certainly passes quality control.

 

[scottmoyer]

Years ago, I was invited to the International Auto Show as a guest of GM. They were announcing a new Camaro at the time and I was able to compare all manufacturers at the one show. The GM friend that invited me walked the floor with me and was commenting how many Americans give credit to the German brands for being built so much better than the US cars. We looked at Mercedes and found interior trim panels that didn't match in color, like the door panel compared to the dash. We also looked at the interior panel fitment and saw that the gap between the door panel and the dash was almost twice as large on the passenger side, as the driver side. My friend commented that Americans are so critical of the US manufacturers that these imperfections would not fly today.

I sold a BMW 435i to get this truck. While the car was well built, I didn't understand how people spoke of the quality of the interior in comparison to other makes. The leather seats weren't soft, but were the upgraded leather, the door panels were solid plastic panels, just like everybody else, plastic everywhere, etc. It was a $65k car when new. Would you believe it didn't even have heated seats or blind spot detection? The fit and finish was good on all exterior panels, but I think the US cars are too.

 

[SD Rebel]

Years ago, I was invited to the International Auto Show as a guest of GM. They were announcing a new Camaro at the time and I was able to compare all manufacturers at the one show. The GM friend that invited me walked the floor with me and was commenting how many Americans give credit to the German brands for being built so much better than the US cars. We looked at Mercedes and found interior trim panels that didn't match in color, like the door panel compared to the dash. We also looked at the interior panel fitment and saw that the gap between the door panel and the dash was almost twice as large on the passenger side, as the driver side. My friend commented that Americans are so critical of the US manufacturers that these imperfections would not fly today.

I sold a BMW 435i to get this truck. While the car was well built, I didn't understand how people spoke of the quality of the interior in comparison to other makes. The leather seats weren't soft, but were the upgraded leather, the door panels were solid plastic panels, just like everybody else, plastic everywhere, etc. It was a $65k car when new. Would you believe it didn't even have heated seats or blind spot detection? The fit and finish was good on all exterior panels, but I think the US cars are too.

I agree, I have had several German sedans, currently have 2, I think my RAM is equal in quality in many fronts and almost in certain others it really isn't expected to be in this class. I will say, our new Toyota C-HR, which is built in Japan, it built really well for a $25,000 budget tall hatchback (i.e. compact crossover). The metal is thick, fit and finish is outstanding, materials are very good quality even compared to higher priced Germans. It comes loaded with safety features like 10 air bags, lane assist, blind spot monitor, emergency braking, etc. Only weakness is the native infotainment is very basic (you are expected to us Apple Carplay or Android Auto), the TPMS is indirect and the rear camera resolution is like from the 90's.

 

[BowDown]

A friend of mine works as shift manager at the Sterling Heights Assembly plant. He has seen many of our trucks come off the assembly line.

Over the summer, another friend of mine who had just got a gle350 benz and I went over to his house. The FCA friend couldn't stop but drool over the sheet metal work of the mercedes and mentioned several times how the germans are better at sheet metal than americans.

Prior to my Ram I had jeep GC which my wife drives now, and prior to the jeep I had a cadillac ELR, expensive vehicle at $69k. When I got into a small fender bender and the front bumper had to be replaced, when inspecting the final work, I wasn’t happy with the tolerances, the body shop owner then proceeded to do a 360 around the car with me and showed me multiple imperfections on the cadillac from the factory, misalignments, uneven gaps, even sheet metal imperfections. Now granted, I still made him realign the bumper, but the point is that no production car is perfect, even the germans for that matter.

Regarding the sheet metal, seems like FCA is aware there are issues, but it’s within their tolerances and it certainly passes quality control.

Most German and English Luxury autos have the paint hand finished, IE wet/color sanded, the US Big 3 do not do that. That is the difference in the finishes.

 

[SD Rebel]

Most German and English Luxury autos have the paint hand finished, IE wet/color sanded, the US Big 3 do not do that. That is the difference in the finishes.

I have to respectfully disagree here. Not even Ferrari's that cost over $300,000 have wet sanding done to the paint, their orange peel is as bad as cars costing much much less. Most German cars, even premium cars over 100K are painted by robots and only the most basic buffing is done, just like all other cars rolling off the line.

The time to properly wet sand and buff a car takes many hours by well trained detail people, even cars costing hundreds of thousands of dollars rarely get that kind of attention due to production time limitations. Cutting and buffing is almost only done at custom shops or special order Rolls or Bentley models for example.

The better paint quality is either due to better paint, robots & facilities and initial prep.

 

[BowDown]

I have to respectfully disagree here. Not even Ferrari's that cost over $300,000 have wet sanding done to the paint, their orange peel is as bad as cars costing much much less. Most German cars, even premium cars over 100K are painted by robots and only the most basic buffing is done, just like all other cars rolling off the line.

The time to properly wet sand and buff a car takes many hours by well trained detail people, even cars costing hundreds of thousands of dollars rarely get that kind of attention due to production time limitations. Cutting and buffing is almost only done at custom shops or special order Rolls or Bentley models for example.

The better paint quality is either due to better paint, robots & facilities and initial prep.

1st, hand finishing paint has different levels of finish, we called it knocking down the paint at the basic end to slicking the paint at the most extreme end. Obviously slicking the paint meant no orange peel, everything above that level had some degree of orange peel.
My 65K Jaguar XF has very very little orange peel.

At some point, I'll determine the clear coat depth on my truck then go over it with 3M Trizact 3000 and 5000 grit wet then bring it back, probably take a couple weeks doing a panel a day

 

[SD Rebel]

1st, hand finishing paint has different levels of finish, we called it knocking down the paint at the basic end to slicking the paint at the most extreme end. Obviously slicking the paint meant no orange peel, everything above that level had some degree of orange peel.
My 65K Jaguar XF has very very little orange peel.

At some point, I'll determine the clear coat depth on my truck then go over it with 3M Trizact 3000 and 5000 grit wet then bring it back, probably take a couple weeks doing a panel a day

Sure, my point is they don't have time to wet sand and buff paint on production cars.

That's SVO for Jaguar regarding their custom paint on special order vehicles. This doesn't apply to regular Jags you get at the dealership lot. This is for their "bespoke" operations and it's not cheap.

I would expect your Jaguar XF to have better paint quality, but it's not close to wet sanding and buffing would do.

 

[BowDown]

I've seen them on every single RAM I've looked at, including my own & brand new 2021s. They are there, it's the natural creases from the stamping die combined with the reflection on the orange peel that makes it easier to see. In certain light, it's nearly impossible to see, in other light, it's very clear. It is harder to see on white cars, really easy on blacks and reds.

Went and looked at my doors again today, straight as an arrow