TSB #24-001-20 A/C Fix. Has anyone had it done yet? Plus are you happy with the results?

[Dusty1948]

You can keep arguing about the service manual and spec but you are 100% wrong on this one. Yet the TSB clearly does not reference the service manual and/or spec contained in it. Nor does it say that the technician needs to reproduce the issue. I've read through enough TSBs to know that the dealership has to reproduce the error is in an overwhelming majority of them.

It can't be any more clear than this one line.
If the customer describes the symptom/condition listed above, perform the Repair Procedure.

This is a 5+ hour job. I can confidently say that Ram would not redesign the HVAC housing and then issue a TSB that basically boils down to "take the customer's word for it and JUST DO IT" for ****s and giggles.

Even the failure code dealerships are instructed to use proves that point
FAILURE CODE:
The dealer must use failure code CC with this Service Bulletin.

You are avoiding the point. TSB or no TSB, what is the spec? Are you trying to say there's no longer a specification? The fact that the TSB doesn't mention the spec, or to reference the service manual, does not imply that the service manual is no longer relevant to checking AC performance. Technicians are trained to always source the service manual for specifications.

The TSB is a default, it simply recognizes that Ram has already determined there's a flaw in the design based on a production timeline (built before July 30, 2020) and if a customer complains about AC performance the HVAC replacement is automatically warranted. Replacing the HVAC components does not mean there's no longer a spec.

So where am I wrong?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 053711 miles.

 

[cdn.tbird]

You are avoiding the point. TSB or no TSB, what is the spec? Are you trying to say there's no longer a specification? The fact that the TSB doesn't mention the spec, or to reference the service manual, does not imply that the service manual is no longer relevant to checking AC performance. Technicians are trained to always source the service manual for specifications.

The TSB is a default, it simply recognizes that Ram has already determined there's a flaw in the design based on a production timeline (built before July 30, 2020) and if a customer complains about AC performance the HVAC replacement is automatically warranted. Replacing the HVAC components does not mean there's no longer a spec.

So where am I wrong?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 053711 miles.

OMG. You have been arguing all this time that as long as it meets the spec in the service manual then the HVAC system is fine, and defending the dealership's decision not to fix a known problem based on that flawed spec in the service manual, which according to one of your posts has been around for generations even though the HVAC systems have been redesigned over that time. Now all of a sudden you admit that the TSB recognizes a flaw in the design yet you still point to the spec.

What good is any spec if a flawed system can surpass it? Yes, RAM and any other manufacturer should publish specs based on the model(s) and year(s) they are intended for AND should be based on real world median test results. Not on some overly conservative theoretical calculation of what is "acceptable".

You keep harping on the need to measure against a spec but the test for this TSB is "HVAC is slow to cool, left center instrument panel outlet is warmer than right side instrument panel outlets." Notice how there is no mention of air temp? Both of these issues are easily provable and once the repairs are completed a quick check will validate that both no longer are true.

Sorry, but you're coming across as a shill for RAM on this one.

 

[Edwards]

I'm trying to have this TSB done but called yesterday to check on my truck. They haven't even looked at it after having it two weeks! Good thing I've got a Laramie loaner.

I'm still not sure how they can store that many trucks onsite with that kind of backlog.

 

[2019_Ram]

I posted this over on the HD site. Even though this is for my 2500 which uses a different refrigerant, may be it is applicable here too.

After having the AC TSB done early this year, I was still not happy with the AC performance. While better than pre-TSB, I am still seeing a low of 50* driver's center vent and 46* passenger's center vent. On a 90*+ day, the truck meets specs, but on a 70-80* day it does not, as I see the same vent temps. Specs are 45* on a 70-80* day and 55* on a 90*+ day, with all temps taken from the Driver's side center panel vent.

I recently took the truck to a different dealer for a second opinion, and the tech ran through all the checks and it passed everything except the vent temps on cooler days. They did provide me a bit more information than I had previously gotten, such as the lowest recorded temp of the evap temp sensor of 38*. In the next few days, I decided to look on my own some more, mainly to see if I could verify if the evap temp sensor was really reading 38*. I borrowed a DVM with a quick reading temp probe and attached it to the low side line coming out of the evaporator (as close as possible) on the engine side of the firewall. What I saw has me very confident in a theory...

• These observations are after the initial cooldown of the system, when the compressor starts cycling. This was also done with MAX AC on. This is very repeatable, at least on my truck.
• The lowest recorded temp I see on the line is right at 38*, this corresponds directly to the 38* referenced by the tech.
• Every time I saw 38*, the compressor cycled off.
• The line temp quickly rose to 44*.
• Every time I saw 44*, the compressor cycled on.
• This ON-ON cycle happened between 10-15 seconds. I could easily hear the ON click of the compressor.
• When the temperature was dropping, at 39* it seemed to drop slower than at other temperatures. It seemed to take longer to drop from 39* to 38*, than from 41* to 40*.
  • I think this is where the H-Block\TXV was beginning to meter refrigerant...

This leads me to my theory. I believe the evap temp sensor is cycling the compressor based on a software setpoint of 38*. I believe this value is set artificially high, thus not allowing the H-Block\TXV time to properly adjust and meter the refrigerant. In everything I know and have researched about this, I believe the H-Block\TXV should be able to sufficiently meter refrigerant flow under a high cooling load without freezing up the evaporator. Therefore the evap temp sensor cutting the compressor out at 38* is greatly reducing the cooling ability of the system. The evap temp sensor should only be cutting the compressor out under lower cooling loads, when the evaporator is actually at risk of freezing up.

My belief is that if the evap temp sensor cutout was set lower, say to 34*, the H-Block\TXV may now have enough time to properly meter the refrigerant before the compressor is forced to cycle. The other possibility is the H-Block\TXV was not properly spec'ed, or had a defect in manufacturing, for the 38* evap temp sensor cutout and does not function at the proper setpoint.

If the evap temp sensor cutout temp was dropped to 34* and the H-Block\TXV did regulate the evap temperature at 36-38*, the compressor would no longer cycle and greatly increase the cooling ability of the system. By having the compressor run continuously under a high cooling load, I could see this reducing vent temps by at least 6*. This would put both of my vent temps under spec at all outside temps with nothing more than a slight software change.

If anyone wants to replicate this experiment, I would be happy to hear the results. See if others are experiencing the same compressor cycling as I am and see if this is part of the poor cooling performance puzzle too many of us are struggling with.

 

[Rototerrier]

Been weeks and still no parts or call from dealer. Not surprised about parts backorder or the lack of communication from my dealer. I suspect, in all honesty, If I don't call the dealer for an update I will probably never hear from them again. They are that sketchy. Unfortunately, I've not experienced anything better from any other dealers in the metro ATL area. There aren't any good alternatives.

 

[cdn.tbird]

I posted this over on the HD site. Even though this is for my 2500 which uses a different refrigerant, may be it is applicable here too.

After having the AC TSB done early this year, I was still not happy with the AC performance. While better than pre-TSB, I am still seeing a low of 50* driver's center vent and 46* passenger's center vent. On a 90*+ day, the truck meets specs, but on a 70-80* day it does not, as I see the same vent temps. Specs are 45* on a 70-80* day and 55* on a 90*+ day, with all temps taken from the Driver's side center panel vent.

I recently took the truck to a different dealer for a second opinion, and the tech ran through all the checks and it passed everything except the vent temps on cooler days. They did provide me a bit more information than I had previously gotten, such as the lowest recorded temp of the evap temp sensor of 38*. In the next few days, I decided to look on my own some more, mainly to see if I could verify if the evap temp sensor was really reading 38*. I borrowed a DVM with a quick reading temp probe and attached it to the low side line coming out of the evaporator (as close as possible) on the engine side of the firewall. What I saw has me very confident in a theory...

• These observations are after the initial cooldown of the system, when the compressor starts cycling. This was also done with MAX AC on. This is very repeatable, at least on my truck.
• The lowest recorded temp I see on the line is right at 38*, this corresponds directly to the 38* referenced by the tech.
• Every time I saw 38*, the compressor cycled off.
• The line temp quickly rose to 44*.
• Every time I saw 44*, the compressor cycled on.
• This ON-ON cycle happened between 10-15 seconds. I could easily hear the ON click of the compressor.
• When the temperature was dropping, at 39* it seemed to drop slower than at other temperatures. It seemed to take longer to drop from 39* to 38*, than from 41* to 40*.
  • I think this is where the H-Block\TXV was beginning to meter refrigerant...

This leads me to my theory. I believe the evap temp sensor is cycling the compressor based on a software setpoint of 38*. I believe this value is set artificially high, thus not allowing the H-Block\TXV time to properly adjust and meter the refrigerant. In everything I know and have researched about this, I believe the H-Block\TXV should be able to sufficiently meter refrigerant flow under a high cooling load without freezing up the evaporator. Therefore the evap temp sensor cutting the compressor out at 38* is greatly reducing the cooling ability of the system. The evap temp sensor should only be cutting the compressor out under lower cooling loads, when the evaporator is actually at risk of freezing up.

My belief is that if the evap temp sensor cutout was set lower, say to 34*, the H-Block\TXV may now have enough time to properly meter the refrigerant before the compressor is forced to cycle. The other possibility is the H-Block\TXV was not properly spec'ed, or had a defect in manufacturing, for the 38* evap temp sensor cutout and does not function at the proper setpoint.

If the evap temp sensor cutout temp was dropped to 34* and the H-Block\TXV did regulate the evap temperature at 36-38*, the compressor would no longer cycle and greatly increase the cooling ability of the system. By having the compressor run continuously under a high cooling load, I could see this reducing vent temps by at least 6*. This would put both of my vent temps under spec at all outside temps with nothing more than a slight software change.

If anyone wants to replicate this experiment, I would be happy to hear the results. See if others are experiencing the same compressor cycling as I am and see if this is part of the poor cooling performance puzzle too many of us are struggling with.

This TSB is applicable to a lot of different models including the 2500

MODELS:
2019 2020 - (DT) RAM 1500 Pickup
2019 2020 - (DJ) RAM 2500 Pickup
2019 2020 - (D2) RAM 3500 Pickup
2019 2020 - (DD) RAM 3500 Cab Chassis
2019 2020 - (DF) RAM 3500 <10K Cab Chassis
2019 2020 - (DP) RAM 4500/5500 Cab Chassis
2019 2020 - (DX) RAM Truck (Mexico)
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles within the following markets/countries: North America, LATAM and EMEA.
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles built on or before July 30, 2020 (MDH 0730XX) equipped with Air Conditioning (Sales Code HAA) or Air Conditioning ATC W/Dual Zone Control (Sales Code HAF).

 

[Ellisstrong]

Been weeks and still no parts or call from dealer. Not surprised about parts backorder or the lack of communication from my dealer. I suspect, in all honesty, If I don't call the dealer for an update I will probably never hear from them again. They are that sketchy. Unfortunately, I've not experienced anything better from any other dealers in the metro ATL area. There aren't any good alternatives.

Which dealer is this? I have had decent service at a couple of them.

 

[Trippi]

I posted this over on the HD site. Even though this is for my 2500 which uses a different refrigerant, may be it is applicable here too.

After having the AC TSB done early this year, I was still not happy with the AC performance. While better than pre-TSB, I am still seeing a low of 50* driver's center vent and 46* passenger's center vent. On a 90*+ day, the truck meets specs, but on a 70-80* day it does not, as I see the same vent temps. Specs are 45* on a 70-80* day and 55* on a 90*+ day, with all temps taken from the Driver's side center panel vent.

I recently took the truck to a different dealer for a second opinion, and the tech ran through all the checks and it passed everything except the vent temps on cooler days. They did provide me a bit more information than I had previously gotten, such as the lowest recorded temp of the evap temp sensor of 38*. In the next few days, I decided to look on my own some more, mainly to see if I could verify if the evap temp sensor was really reading 38*. I borrowed a DVM with a quick reading temp probe and attached it to the low side line coming out of the evaporator (as close as possible) on the engine side of the firewall. What I saw has me very confident in a theory...

• These observations are after the initial cooldown of the system, when the compressor starts cycling. This was also done with MAX AC on. This is very repeatable, at least on my truck.
• The lowest recorded temp I see on the line is right at 38*, this corresponds directly to the 38* referenced by the tech.
• Every time I saw 38*, the compressor cycled off.
• The line temp quickly rose to 44*.
• Every time I saw 44*, the compressor cycled on.
• This ON-ON cycle happened between 10-15 seconds. I could easily hear the ON click of the compressor.
• When the temperature was dropping, at 39* it seemed to drop slower than at other temperatures. It seemed to take longer to drop from 39* to 38*, than from 41* to 40*.
  • I think this is where the H-Block\TXV was beginning to meter refrigerant...

This leads me to my theory. I believe the evap temp sensor is cycling the compressor based on a software setpoint of 38*. I believe this value is set artificially high, thus not allowing the H-Block\TXV time to properly adjust and meter the refrigerant. In everything I know and have researched about this, I believe the H-Block\TXV should be able to sufficiently meter refrigerant flow under a high cooling load without freezing up the evaporator. Therefore the evap temp sensor cutting the compressor out at 38* is greatly reducing the cooling ability of the system. The evap temp sensor should only be cutting the compressor out under lower cooling loads, when the evaporator is actually at risk of freezing up.

My belief is that if the evap temp sensor cutout was set lower, say to 34*, the H-Block\TXV may now have enough time to properly meter the refrigerant before the compressor is forced to cycle. The other possibility is the H-Block\TXV was not properly spec'ed, or had a defect in manufacturing, for the 38* evap temp sensor cutout and does not function at the proper setpoint.

If the evap temp sensor cutout temp was dropped to 34* and the H-Block\TXV did regulate the evap temperature at 36-38*, the compressor would no longer cycle and greatly increase the cooling ability of the system. By having the compressor run continuously under a high cooling load, I could see this reducing vent temps by at least 6*. This would put both of my vent temps under spec at all outside temps with nothing more than a slight software change.

If anyone wants to replicate this experiment, I would be happy to hear the results. See if others are experiencing the same compressor cycling as I am and see if this is part of the poor cooling performance puzzle too many of us are struggling with.

This sounds plausible but wouldn't another approach be to check what the evap temp sensor is set to on a truck built after July 30 2020 that doesn't have the problem? Believe me I don't want my dash worked on to fix this, but 52* driver side just isn't cutting it.

 

[Dusty1948]

OMG. You have been arguing all this time that as long as it meets the spec in the service manual then the HVAC system is fine, and defending the dealership's decision not to fix a known problem based on that flawed spec in the service manual, which according to one of your posts has been around for generations even though the HVAC systems have been redesigned over that time. Now all of a sudden you admit that the TSB recognizes a flaw in the design yet you still point to the spec.

What good is any spec if a flawed system can surpass it? Yes, RAM and any other manufacturer should publish specs based on the model(s) and year(s) they are intended for AND should be based on real world median test results. Not on some overly conservative theoretical calculation of what is "acceptable".

You keep harping on the need to measure against a spec but the test for this TSB is "HVAC is slow to cool, left center instrument panel outlet is warmer than right side instrument panel outlets." Notice how there is no mention of air temp? Both of these issues are easily provable and once the repairs are completed a quick check will validate that both no longer are true.

Sorry, but you're coming across as a shill for RAM on this one.

You are falsely misrepresenting my position. In the dialog on poor AC performance noted in this thread, a good portion of the discussion has been around the inability of the system to deliver temperatures into the 40s. Those systems were clearly not meeting the service spec.

You have falsely stated that [I was] "defending the dealership's decision not to fix a known problem..." which, by the way, was NOT known immediately to be a design issue. In fact, at each issue where the system wasn't meeting the spec. I was advising that it was a problem. I never said it wasn't a design issue. It is also just supposition that the spec. in the service manual is "flawed." As I've previously pointed out, that spec. has been in place for years across different manufacturers. The current spec. is not an anomaly.

But if the spec. of 45 F at 70 ambient is truly flawed, then what is the new spec. for something would need to replace it? Does the TSB even hint at a new spec.? How will service people in the future know if the TSB hardware is meeting the designed AC performance? There's apparently an assumption that with the TSB the new hardware beats or replaces the current spec. But where's the evidence? Are there not a few that have had the TSB hardware installed and still are claiming AC performance issues?

"You keep harping on the need to measure against a spec but the test for this TSB is "HVAC is slow to cool, left center instrument panel outlet is warmer than right side instrument panel outlets."

There's also a purpose statement, "This bulletin is to aid the technician on awareness of several HVAC components that would need to be replaced when the HVAC housing is being serviced."

In other words, the TSB was meant to convey the necessary component changes when installing a new HVAC housing. One would expect that if there was a new AC performance specification, it would've been included in the TSB, along with an update to the service manual. Despite the fact that the TSB details a number of service related steps that should be done, no where in the TSB is a 'new' AC performance specification stated and there's no evidence to support a revised spec.

It appears that you are conflating a change in the hardware with a change in the AC performance specification, when in reality the hardware change was initiated because the then current system could not meet the design specification.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 053711 miles.

 

[Rototerrier]

Which dealer is this? I have had decent service at a couple of them.

Currently I am waiting on parts at the RAM Dealer in Newnan, GA. I've also tried Paulding and Union City. All pretty bad.

 

[Trippi]

Looks like we will be a go with the TSB. Parts were ordered yesterday and all came in already except one...that will be here by the end of the week. Once all in we will schedule the repair. When the parts guy was looking up m order he was talking outloud a little bit...I heard him say the parts are restricted but that my order went through. Don't know what that really means but thought it's good info to share in the thread.

 

[Dusty1948]

Looks like we will be a go with the TSB. Parts were ordered yesterday and all came in already except one...that will be here by the end of the week. Once all in we will schedule the repair. When the parts guy was looking up m order he was talking outloud a little bit...I heard him say the parts are restricted but that my order went through. Don't know what that really means but thought it's good info to share in the thread.

It usually means a supply/demand issue, i.e.: not enough parts in the system.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 053719 miles.

 

[Edwards]

Dealer had me pick up the truck but they did order the parts. WO shows that the tech duplicated my issues, which were worded identically to the TSB. Guess mgmt makes them do that no matter what Ram says.

Anyway, parts are supposed to be in on the 26th and they're putting me in a loaner for three days to do it.

 

[IvoryHemi]

I got mine back from the dealer and they said it was temping within range at 48-50 and did nothing. First i would love to know which temp gauge they used and which vent because I have been temping daily for weeks and cannot get anything in the 40s. I have it running 52-56 regularly...passenger side slightly cooler. The loaner truck I had temped at 42 consistently. So if it's 90 degrees outside is he going to set his AC at home to 72 or 82? That's the same ridiculous range they are asking me to take as acceptable in a brand new vehicle with a known issue. I have a call into the service manager - I want this fixed. It is not cool enough running 50-52 no matter what the temp is outside.

Schedule another appointment. It took me 3 tries before the dealer finally agreed to do the TSB.

 

[User_3336]

if a 2021, built in May 21, can achieve 40 degree vent temps, then what SHOULD be considered the "spec" ?

 

[IvoryHemi]

if a 2021, built in May 21, can achieve 40 degree vent temps, then what SHOULD be considered the "spec" View attachment 99919 ?

What was the outside temperature?

Passenger side isn’t the issue though, even mine can hit 42 at 80 outside

 

[Dusty1948]

if a 2021, built in May 21, can achieve 40 degree vent temps, then what SHOULD be considered the "spec" View attachment 99919 ?

Previous Chrysler manuals called for a spec. of "no greater than 45 degrees" at 70 F. ambient. That's an indication that lower was acceptable.

However, it's up to Ram to change the current spec. if they so wish.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 053750 miles.

 

[User_3336]

Previous Chrysler manuals called for a spec. of "no greater than 45 degrees" at 70 F. ambient. That's an indication that lower was acceptable.

However, it's up to Ram to change the current spec. if they so wish.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 053750 miles.

Just tested again.. 90 degrees. 68% humidity (rained yesterday), sunny, 42 out of driver vent, a little below 40 in the passenger vent (both in green). I guess lower is definitely acceptable.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Parts are in and dropped my truck off. They said 3 days to complete the TSB.

Dealer gave me a Ram classic for a loaner, and wow do I really appreciate how nice the DT is

 

[pikemike]

Can anyone recommend a dealer to consider for completing this work in the northern Illinois area? Ray Ram in Fox Lake is concerned about his techs messing up my nice (his word, it’s a Longhorn tan) dashboard. Kinda scary. Nope. SA says run the AC in recirc and I’ll be fine! Not fine. Considering asking Wickstrom in Barrington if they have a skilled “dash guy”. Also considering same for Liberty in Libertyville and Gurnee CJDR. Suggestions?