5thGenRams Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Trailer sway with air ride

DavidNJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
343
Reaction score
135
Towing my travel trailer I have about the same experience, over 65mph it's squirrelly. I have lowered the hitch a notch on the WD shank, loaded the hitch heavier (shifting cargo) and gone another link tighter on my BlueOx chains. All helped but didn't eliminate the away.

When I set up the hitch the latest time, measuring all along the way, I found the front end never raised more than a half inch, so I never feel like I am getting a true feel for if the hitch is transferring enough. Now I only towed the trailer twice with my 11 (coils) and neither time was loaded to camping spec, but it wasn't swaying. I'm considering going up the next step on WD bars to try to get it under control because with the 750lb bars I'm probably just over and that will make them not work right.

I used to draft a ways behind semis with my 11 and a slightly lighter trailer for speed and milage, but I'd never be able to pull it off with this setup. I felt the wind buffet and push but never out of control. It's worse just driving down the open road with the 19 and the new trailer.

Did you follow the manual for setting up the WDH? It says to put it in jack mode, measure the front fender height, put the tongue on the ball, then adjust the bars until the front drops 2/3rds of the distance it went up. and the movement side-to-side is even. Then go back to the appropriate air suspension height. It should be pretty close.

The Ram 1500 has a typical pickup length wheelbase (pretty long, about the same as an F1 car) and a trailer sway aware stability control. The WDH bars counteract what can be thought of as the torque around the rear axle by putting the tongue weight 65" or so behind it. Sway is the horizontal force applied at the same place. If the WDH has sway control it is usually resistance to the bars rotating. The Reese Dual Cam stiffens the bars in turning to apply a non-resistance force. The Hensley creates a virtual fifth wheel that (according to ProPride) move the effective point 52" forward, about 12" behind the rear axle.
 

DavidNJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
343
Reaction score
135
The trailer is a 20 ft V-nose. With the Camaro in it the weight is about 7,500 lbs. I've never used a WDH in all the years I've been towing (cars and boats). Go to a Drag Race and you never see WDH on the trucks towing the race cars. I just pull the car into or onto the trailer far enough to drop the rear of the truck about 2 inches and strap it down. You know right away if it's light. If so, I just ratchet the car on a little further. Pull the weight, don't carry it. Stock Goodyear's. I don't even know if they make a LT 22".
No rear camera. I suppose one would save some steps at times but I rarely need to back up to something tight. When I'm backing into a space while turning, I know it's wide enough before I start and then hug the side I can see. When I'm tight to the visible side, I know the blind side is good.
The locks are Trimax.

I was thinking of the camera while towing on the highways and byways...not just parking. The 2500 has cameras in the mirrors, the GMC/Chevy have that plus a wireless trailer camera that they string together for a transparent trailer view. All the pictures of it I've seen have been on their 8" center display. It supports 15 camera views to include inside the trailer. The GMC also have an electronic inside rearview mirror...a camera view on the mirror. I don't know if the transparent trailer view is shown on that mirror.

 

pgienger

Active Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
27
Reaction score
10
Location
ND
That's a fine idea, to weigh it out. They already discount your reweighs at the scale, so it wouldn't be too expensive.

I read somewhere that the air ride, when actively driving, not in jack mode, will reduce the amount of transfer, but it even seemed to be not letting the front end rise in jack mode.
 

dslowell

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
6
Reaction score
6
As a follow up...

Finally got my truck back from the dealer.

I swapped tires to e rated tires at max pressure. Added a curt TruTrak 10k wd hitch, and the Hellwig sway bar on the stiffest setting.

This has solved the issue. Truck now tows like it should. While I should have done each individually, just tired of messing with this thing.

Putting on the tires even before hooking up the trailer made a huge difference. i think 90 percent of this was the Dueller tires.

Thanks to all who provided input.

D
 

DavidNJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
343
Reaction score
135
The Curt hitch is interesting...a rather unique way to keep the trailer from turning.

 

Willwork4truck

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
3,683
Reaction score
2,460
Location
SC
That is the WD hitch that we used on the Jayco. We towed about 8500 miles over the span of almost 2 years with it. We are *thinking* about getting another TT with this 1500 as a TW. Looking at something 32'-37' with a GVWR of 9500 max. Yep, larger than what we towed with the 2500. I will use an Equal-i-zer Hitch to gain the 4pt sway control for the larger/longer load. The eazlift worked well for us but it might have been skewed a bit because the size of the truck/trailer combo. A Hensley or ProPride would be the best solution (for me) but they are cost and weight (~200#) prohibitive. The good thing is if the DW doesn't like how the 1500 tows, I have my eye on a SRW 3500 CC CTD Big Horn...:cool:
I about sheet when I read you were considering towing that even larger trailer with a 1500 until I read the last part.
As much as I enjoy the 1500, its just not all that great for towing trailers that are longer and heavier than the truck is.
Ford owners found that out when the 2015’s came out, having lightened the truck by 700#. Many threads about how the 2012-2014’s towed better.
I understand people love their very big trailers and their oh so comfy 1500’s, but its a bad combination even with plenty of expensive mods. A 2500/3500 with E tires and the lightweight 6.4 sure would be better for that job, but $ rule...
 

RANDAV

New Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
D

Severe sway pulling toyhauler

Jump to LatestUnfollow

1 - 4 of 4 Posts

D
Dslowell
· Registered
Joined 12 days ago
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter • #1 4 days ago
I have a 2019 1500 with air ride that starts swaying severely above 60mph.

I have taken it to the dealer multiple times and they have checked everything and say there is no problem with the truck, it is my loading causing issues.

I have tried loading all configurations, dropping, raising ball, aft, forward. Even at 8500, lightly loaded it still does it.

I have weight distribution and sway bars, and have towed this trailer with my 2014 1500 for over 20k miles now, at much higher weights. It still currently tows this trailer now without issues.

Am I the only one having a towing issue?

Any help would be appreciated, Dodge has not been helpful.

Thanks
YES-
Having the same issue with my Limited 1500 - adjusted the heigth of the ball hitch on truck- helped slightly
 

TKutz

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
As a follow up...

Finally got my truck back from the dealer.

I swapped tires to e rated tires at max pressure. Added a curt TruTrak 10k wd hitch, and the Hellwig sway bar on the stiffest setting.

This has solved the issue. Truck now tows like it should. While I should have done each individually, just tired of messing with this thing.

Putting on the tires even before hooking up the trailer made a huge difference. i think 90 percent of this was the Dueller tires.

Thanks to all who provided input.

D
Glad you were able to correct the swaying problems. My 2019 Tradesman Quad 4x4 without air suspension is experiencing the same major swaying issues pulling my 5000lb travel trailer. Unsafe at speeds above 60mph. Forget trying to trailer on a windy day. I’ve adjusted the WDH tension, ball height, tire pressures, weight loading on trailer and truck several times without any noticeable improvements.

One thing I noticed with this truck is the side to side movement when pressing sideways on the rear bumper. With minimal alternating pressure, you can get the front and rear to start swaying considerably. Anyone else able to duplicate my findings? I’ve tried the same test on several other brand trucks and get almost no movement. I’m leaning towards replacing the Bridgstone Dueller HT 275/65R18 factory tires being the biggest issue. Next would be adding the Hellwig sway bar.
 

DavidNJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
343
Reaction score
135
Glad you were able to correct the swaying problems. My 2019 Tradesman Quad 4x4 without air suspension is experiencing the same major swaying issues pulling my 5000lb travel trailer. Unsafe at speeds above 60mph. Forget trying to trailer on a windy day. I’ve adjusted the WDH tension, ball height, tire pressures, weight loading on trailer and truck several times without any noticeable improvements.

One thing I noticed with this truck is the side to side movement when pressing sideways on the rear bumper. With minimal alternating pressure, you can get the front and rear to start swaying considerably. Anyone else able to duplicate my findings? I’ve tried the same test on several other brand trucks and get almost no movement. I’m leaning towards replacing the Bridgstone Dueller HT 275/65R18 factory tires being the biggest issue. Next would be adding the Hellwig sway bar.

5000# is a light trailer. You shouldn't have any problem with a WDH. Do you know your tongue weight? What were the front fender heights before hitching, after hitching, and after adjustment?

The side-to-side movement sounds concerning. If looking underneath while someone else causes the sway, can you see something moving that shouldn't?
 

Willwork4truck

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
3,683
Reaction score
2,460
Location
SC
E tires and the Hellwig sway bar should be “standard equipment” for towing anything even moderately heavy. The sidewall squirm from even fully inflated PXL tires can be a fairly major issue. That and the lack of a robust rear sway bar.
You're on the right track. Check the tongue weight using a scale. Slightly nose down trailer when its hooked up?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TKutz

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
5000# is a light trailer. You shouldn't have any problem with a WDH. Do you know your tongue weight? What were the front fender heights before hitching, after hitching, and after adjustment?

The side-to-side movement sounds concerning. If looking underneath while someone else causes the sway, can you see something moving that shouldn't?
5000# is a light trailer. You shouldn't have any problem with a WDH. Do you know your tongue weight? What were the front fender heights before hitching, after hitching, and after adjustment?

The side-to-side movement sounds concerning. If looking underneath while someone else causes the sway, can you see something moving that shouldn't?
Heights measured at front & rear fenders, above the axles. Estimated tongue weight 500Lbs. Trailer 5000Lbs. Curt max 10000Lb WDH
Truck unloaded height: front 36.75, rear 38.25
Trailer with out WDH: front 37.25, rear 36.00
WDH engaged: front 37.25, rear 36.75
Hitch ball height lowered 1": front 37.00, rear 37.00
 

DavidNJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
343
Reaction score
135
Heights measured at front & rear fenders, above the axles. Estimated tongue weight 500Lbs. Trailer 5000Lbs. Curt max 10000Lb WDH
Truck unloaded height: front 36.75, rear 38.25
Trailer with out WDH: front 37.25, rear 36.00
WDH engaged: front 37.25, rear 36.75
Hitch ball height lowered 1": front 37.00, rear 37.00

There seems to be an inconsistency in the measurements on the front. Was the hitch on the truck in the unloaded measurement?

Assuming the 500lb estimate is correct and the hitch is 66" behind the rear axle, and this is a 144.5" wb truck, it is indicating a front-wheel rate of 460 lb/in and a rear rate of 325 lb/in. Initially, 230 lb moved from the front wheels to the rear, a good example of why a WDH shouldn't be optional. The rear would have a total load of 730 lb (which was used to calculate wheel rate). Remember, the numbers depend on the accuracy of the 500lb tongue weight guess.

For measurements where accuracy as a problem, using the bumper instead of the fender may help. Using a dry erase mark or masking tape on the fender may also make a more consistent reference. For now, we will assume the third measurement in front was supposed to be 37.125". That 1/8th of an inch is hard to do against the fender lip without a marking aid.

If so, in the third measurement the net tongue weight was around 310lb and in the 4th 290. That trailer must have a very short distance between the ball and the axle or something else changed. That is over 40% of the tongue weight moved to the trailer and the front is still unloaded 1/3rd of the unadjusted weight.

Two questions: 1) Was the WD hitch in the receiver when the first unloaded measurement was taken? It weighs 80lb by itself; 2) how did you estimate trailer weight and tongue weight?
 

Willwork4truck

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
3,683
Reaction score
2,460
Location
SC
Thanks David for a good technical reply.
I will echo the question of the accuracy of the tongue weight and I'd say that the oft repeated 10% could actually be a bit light, as I have read much more about being closer to 13%.

Whenever the tongue weight is too light, the sway can get pronounced. I'd keep increasing tongue weight some more (another 100-150#) and see how it tows. Just don't change more than a single variable at a time (tow route/speeds, type of tires, PSI, WD hitch setup, measured tongue weight) etc or you won't know what affected what.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TKutz

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
There seems to be an inconsistency in the measurements on the front. Was the hitch on the truck in the unloaded measurement?

Assuming the 500lb estimate is correct and the hitch is 66" behind the rear axle, and this is a 144.5" wb truck, it is indicating a front-wheel rate of 460 lb/in and a rear rate of 325 lb/in. Initially, 230 lb moved from the front wheels to the rear, a good example of why a WDH shouldn't be optional. The rear would have a total load of 730 lb (which was used to calculate wheel rate). Remember, the numbers depend on the accuracy of the 500lb tongue weight guess.

For measurements where accuracy as a problem, using the bumper instead of the fender may help. Using a dry erase mark or masking tape on the fender may also make a more consistent reference. For now, we will assume the third measurement in front was supposed to be 37.125". That 1/8th of an inch is hard to do against the fender lip without a marking aid.

If so, in the third measurement the net tongue weight was around 310lb and in the 4th 290. That trailer must have a very short distance between the ball and the axle or something else changed. That is over 40% of the tongue weight moved to the trailer and the front is still unloaded 1/3rd of the unadjusted weight.

Two questions: 1) Was the WD hitch in the receiver when the first unloaded measurement was taken? It weighs 80lb by itself; 2) how did you estimate trailer weight and tongue weight?
Answers to your questions David;
1. Truck Unloaded Weight measurements had the hitch on the truck, trailer disconnected.
2. Trailer weights were measured when I originally purchased the trailer with dealer configured WDH setup on my Tundra and it tracked great with no swaying. Latest estimated total weight of 5000 includes gear and full tanks. Initial trailer specs were UVW of 3910Lbs, Dry Hitch Wt. 450Lbs.
 

DavidNJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
343
Reaction score
135
Answers to your questions David;
1. Truck Unloaded Weight measurements had the hitch on the truck, trailer disconnected.
2. Trailer weights were measured when I originally purchased the trailer with dealer configured WDH setup on my Tundra and it tracked great with no swaying. Latest estimated total weight of 5000 includes gear and full tanks. Initial trailer specs were UVW of 3910Lbs, Dry Hitch Wt. 450Lbs.

The key is stability is about the tow vehicle, not the trailer. That is easy to see. Fifth wheels and gooseneck trailers are considered stable. As are 4-bar linkages. What's the difference? The moment arm applied to the rear axle. I'm now going to ramble a bit to explain.

That is not to say all 5th wheels and goosenecks are without their own issues. On a short bed truck (anything less than 8') there is not enough room for the 5th wheel to rotate for low-speed maneuvering. The fix is either a slide hitch (multiple manufacturers, which can manually be slid about 14" toward the back of the box), autoslide (two manufacturers, automatically slides back if the truck turns), or a Reese sidewinder pin box (one manufacturer, the trailer rotates at the pin box mount, about 22" behind the coupler). Only the sidewinder works with Rambox. The last may increase stability since horizontal forces are applied to the truck on a 22" lever arm). Goosenecks, which appear to be the dominant choice for car haulers, have offset couplers which in effect extend the tongue. B&W has a 4" offset ball which does move the pivot and 10" offset coupler. Apparently it works with a 6'4" Rambox.

There seem to be two (three? four?) practices in setting up the WD bars. In one, the bars are adjusted until the front and rear heights are equal. In another, until the front is restored to its original height (all the net tongue weight on the rear axle). The OM says, for the air suspension, to only return 2/3rds of the weight transferred off the front wheels back. That means the rear wheels gain about 115% of the net tongue weight. In some of the research in the 1970s, they favored putting 25% of the tongue weight on the front wheels (that would mean taking the distance the front when up, and making the front go down by 55% of the distance (all numbers for 144.5 wheelbases and 66" ball to rear axle). That is, if the front went from 37" to 38", adjust until it is 36 7/16".

I have no idea which works best and it is probably tow vehicle dependent. The key, to some extent, is how much understeer the truck has.

The other factor I'm still researching is the WD bar stiffness. The bar is a spring; some early designs actually used a leaf spring (there is a patent application for one on Google). It is much like the truck's springs. A tall soft spring and a shorter stiffer spring may have the same installed height for a specific load, but an additional load will compress the stiffer spring less. When the angle of the truck to trailer changes in the vertical plane, this spring is resisting it. A stiff WD bar, even if set to the same initial tension as a softer bar, will provide more resistance to this movement than a softer bar. There is no advantage for that, and maybe a significant disadvantage. At this point, I don't have a theoretical model, testing data, nor calcs or testing data of actual WD bar stiffness. My guess is having a WD bar specified for a14k trailer on a 5k trailer won't have a good result.

In college, I was told a story about Stephen Timoshenko, the father of engineering mechanics. He had just passed, but several of the professors had been students of his. The story goes that he was called in to determine why a large industrial crankshaft was failing. He determined it was being excited at its natural frequency (e.g. the Tacoma Narrows Bridge). He could make the shaft thinner or thicker to change the natural frequency. He thought, anyone could say making a shaft that was breaking thicker, so he said make smaller.

When trailer instability raises its ugly head, the natural response seems to be more tongue weight...until arriving at a point where the tow vehicle can't handle the load. It may very well be, and IMHO think it probably is, beneficial to get the disconnected tongue weight down (probably 6%-7%, depending on the WD bar adjustment, with a net tongue weight of about 5%) with probably the softest bar that will work. But I can't point to any research to verify that theory. Yet. The goal is to have the tow vehicle axle loads, tire pressures, and relative front/rear roll couple such that the truck is stable with the trailer attached. For a tag-along trailer, a 4-bar linkage hitch will dramatically reduce the forces the truck has to deal with.
 

pgienger

Active Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
27
Reaction score
10
Location
ND
Glad you were able to correct the swaying problems. My 2019 Tradesman Quad 4x4 without air suspension is experiencing the same major swaying issues pulling my 5000lb travel trailer. Unsafe at speeds above 60mph. Forget trying to trailer on a windy day. I’ve adjusted the WDH tension, ball height, tire pressures, weight loading on trailer and truck several times without any noticeable improvements.

One thing I noticed with this truck is the side to side movement when pressing sideways on the rear bumper. With minimal alternating pressure, you can get the front and rear to start swaying considerably. Anyone else able to duplicate my findings? I’ve tried the same test on several other brand trucks and get almost no movement. I’m leaning towards replacing the Bridgstone Dueller HT 275/65R18 factory tires being the biggest issue. Next would be adding the Hellwig sway bar.

I did something driving down the interstate today after making some lane changes through some construction, and feeling some away with no trailer. A couple fairly quick back and forths, about 1/4 lane change each, and I was feeling about like I had a trailer swaying around.

Makes me wonder a bit.
 

FrankNBeans

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
5
Reaction score
3
I had the exact same issue with my 2020 Limited 1500. I had 35” tires on initially this summer but went back to stock to see if the sway improved. I did get a slight better experience but my family was terrified when towing our 26’ Sonic X at about 7000lbs even on stock tires.

I realized as well that I didn’t have the 3.92 gears which technically limited my maximum towing capacity to 7000. My truck had the 3.12 gears and adding larger tires made a poor problem worse. Additionally the payload on my truck was only 1100 lbs and with the tongue weight of 600 plus passengers, I was overloaded with my gear in the bed. I should have checked the payload on the driver side sticker before all this.

I traded the truck in last Friday on a 2019 2500 Diesel and even brought my trailer to the dealership to test it on a few options (Power Wagon, 2500, and 3500).

I really wanted the Power Wagon but looking at the payload sticker it was only 1460 or so which gave me only an additional 300 lbs. Not great! Also, the maximum towing was only 10,000.

I tried the 3500 as I used to have a 2013 3500 Dually but it was way too stiff!

The 2500 was perfect and with rear air I’m thinking of doing without the WDH altogether.

Unfortunately the right answer for me was a new truck. Maybe consider giving another setup a test drive. The 1500 with air does seem too light duty for my liking and the payload is brutal.
 

Willwork4truck

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
3,683
Reaction score
2,460
Location
SC
1100 payload? Thats brutal. Even my Ltd has 1476#...
Sorry to hear about the truck not working but as you described it there was little option other than a 2500. Good pick.
 

Tony's Rebel

New Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
I have not experienced the kind of sway folks are talking about here. I have heard that a four point WD hitch w/sway control, that the truck will fight back using the ESC. I tow 8500# TT and have had some sway tightened up on my hitch has improved my ride. I always tow using tow haul mode and have been told that mode will over ride the ESC. What do you guys know?
 

LoNeStAr

Ram Guru
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
686
Reaction score
516
I have not experienced the kind of sway folks are talking about here. I have heard that a four point WD hitch w/sway control, that the truck will fight back using the ESC. I tow 8500# TT and have had some sway tightened up on my hitch has improved my ride. I always tow using tow haul mode and have been told that mode will over ride the ESC. What do you guys know?
What is the length of your trailer?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top