Trailer GVWR vs Truck Max Tow Rating

[lambone]

I have read those threads as I mentioned in my first post.

Sorry I don’t think you are following me. I know what tongue weight means.

What I’m getting at is that
Truck GVWR = base weight plus payload (people, cargo and tongue weight)

Trailer GVWR = Trailer Dry weight plus cargo. %10-%15 of which should be considered tongue weight.

It seems like if you add those two numbers up to get GCVWR then you are adding tongue weight into the equation twice? No?

Following me?

 

[devildodge]

Tongue weight isn't necessarily a weight it is force...the fulcrum of the trailer making a downward force at the tongue.

It isn't a weight of the trailer. It is the weight of force the trailer puts at the tongue.

And the truck hauls that force.

Sorry for misunderstanding what you are asking.

 

[devildodge]

Let's say this....you can change tongue weight by moving cargo around in the trailer, but not changing the weight of the trailer,but changing force

Follow?

 

[lambone]

I guess what I’m really asking is can my truck with an 8,080lb tow rating pull a trailer with a 8,000lb gvwr

If the trucks GCVWR is 13,900lb and the trucks GWVR is 7,100lb, then the answer is legally, no it can’t.

Which makes me wonder what good a 8,080lb tow rating is if that trailer puts you over GCVWR capacity when you add passengers, cargo, and tongue weight to the truck.

It seems like false advertising. Even if my truck was empty. Base weight plus tongue weight plus trailer weight would put me over the combined limit.

 

[devildodge]

I guess what I’m really asking is can my truck with an 8,080lb tow rating pull a trailer with a 8,000lb gvwr

If the trucks GCVWR is 13,900lb and the trucks GWVR is 7,100lb, then the answer is legally, no it can’t.

Which makes me wonder what good a 8,080lb tow rating is if that trailer puts you over GCVWR capacity when you add passengers, cargo, and tongue weight to the truck.

It seems like false advertising. Even if my truck was empty. Base weight plus tongue weight plus trailer weight would put me over the combined limit.

There is no false advertising. SAEJ2807 is spelled out very well.

No your truck will not tow that amount legally unless you only have 300lbs of cargo including yourself.

The advertised numbers are 7100 and 13900.

7100 is your weight hauling. 13900 is your weight towing. Each take away from each other.

Ram is one of the first to adopt SAEJ2807. The numbers listed on the commercials are for a specific truck. Max payload is a different truck than max towing.

You can not have both.

Now can your truck do it. Most definitely. Plenty here do and have no issues.

Your decision to make.

 

[lambone]

Another way of looking at this...let’s say:

Truck base weight is 5,400
Trailer base weight is 6,600
Combined base/dry weight is 12,000
GCVWR is 13,900

That gives me 1,900lbs carrying capacity minus tongue weight let’s call it 700.

So that gives me 1,200lbs carrying capacity for humans, camping gear, food, toys, etc. Most of which needs to be in the trailer.

Does this math sound right?
My family of 5 has a combined weight of 450lbs, call it 500 with clothes.

So I have room to carry 700 pounds of stuff in the trailer and still stay within limits...assuming the holding tanks are empty.

Cutting it close maybe...

 

[devildodge]

Another way of looking at this...let’s say:

Truck base weight is 5,400
Trailer base weight is 6,600
Combined base/dry weight is 12,000
GCVWR is 13,900

That gives me 1,900lbs carrying capacity minus tongue weight let’s call it 700.

So that gives me 1,200lbs carrying capacity for humans, camping gear, food, toys, etc. Most of which needs to be in the trailer.

Does this math sound right?
My family of 5 has a combined weight of 450lbs, call it 500 with clothes.

So I have room to carry 700 pounds of stuff in the trailer and still stay within limits...assuming the holding tanks are empty.

Cutting it close maybe...

Yes if the math is right. I agree. When I get more of a chance I will check it out. But those sound about like the numbers I expected...exception being 3.92...so it will be close.

Based on others towing experience...it should tow well also

 

[Zeronet]

Another way of looking at this...let’s say:

Truck base weight is 5,400
Trailer base weight is 6,600
Combined base/dry weight is 12,000
GCVWR is 13,900

That gives me 1,900lbs carrying capacity minus tongue weight let’s call it 700.

So that gives me 1,200lbs carrying capacity for humans, camping gear, food, toys, etc. Most of which needs to be in the trailer.

Does this math sound right?
My family of 5 has a combined weight of 450lbs, call it 500 with clothes.

So I have room to carry 700 pounds of stuff in the trailer and still stay within limits...assuming the holding tanks are empty.

Cutting it close maybe...

Your math looks pretty sound. One comment tho.

The base weight of 5400 sounds a bit optimistic for a Laramie with your options, especially with the mods you have added. What does your payload sticker say? Better yet, get your truck weighed to know where you are at as a starting point.

Like you said, it will be tight but doable, to be completely within the ratings for your truck. Just need to watch how much camping gear you bring.

No doubt the truck can get the job done. Staying within GVWR and GCWR will be in your control.

You’re weekend camping so I assume not traveling long distances which is good when near the max. If you were planning cross country trips I’d be more concerned.

 

[lambone]

Thanks Zeronet,

I think that is good advice. I will weigh my truck with me in it once I have my amp steps in. Then I’ll have all my ‘heavy’ mods done.

Most of our trips are on the shorter side, nothing cross country, just visiting the pacific coast and west coast national parks.

 

[Zeronet]

Lambone, now that I look at your numbers again I think there’s a mistake but it’s in your favor.

There are two calculations to do here. 1) Payload and 2) GCWR.

Using your numbers here’s what I see.
1)

5400 truck base weight + 500 passengers = 5900

7100 GVWR - 5900 = 1200 available for tongue weight/hitch

Again I think 5400 base truck weight is probably optimistic.

2)

6600 dry trailer weight + 5900 truck/passengers = 12500 total truck/passengers/dry trailer

13900 GCWR - 12500 = 1400 available for trailer cargo/hitch

Note that some advertised trailer dry weights don’t include options, batteries and filled propane tanks.

Check my math. Let me know if you agree.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

Thanks Zeronet,

I think that is good advice. I will weigh my truck with me in it once I have my amp steps in. Then I’ll have all my ‘heavy’ mods done.

Most of our trips are on the shorter side, nothing cross country, just visiting the pacific coast and west coast national parks.

Don't forget to add the weight of your WDH and full LP tank(s) which add to tongue weight. Other than that, you are on the right track.

 

[lambone]

Thanks guys,

Turns out the dry weight of the trailer I’m looking at is only 6,350. So considering LP tanks, batteries, maybe some fresh water on board, those numbers should be fairly close.

 

[slimchance]

to better understand this problem goto this link and view the YouTube explaination, then download the xl spreadsheet (this forum will NOT allow me to upload this file type) and fill in your numbers .... it is an eye opener ... and the real question is not can i tow this trailer BUT rather IF i am towing this trailer and am in an accident will my insurance payoff ....

 

[VernDiesel]

6,350 dry TT weight. Most common wet weight is almost 1,000 pounds. Batteries propane water & supplies. So typically that TT should weight about 7,350 camp ready or wet. Yes you have extra capacity in and on the TT which helps to keep things out of your truck bed to leave more availability for your passengers. For a box TT I try to set my WDH & TT loading to try to get my TW down to close as I can reasonably get to 12%. Any lower box TTs tend to want to wonder or sway a bit at 65 when pushed by a semi. If it was a flatbed trailer I would try to set WDH & loading so that TW was only 10%. Anyway with a 7,350 TT thats about 900 pounds of TW. So 900 TW plus 500 passengers on a 5,400 truck totals 6,800. You should be fine with this TT as you have some room to be off as to your estimates. Just set your WDH and loading so that you have your TW in range and replaced your unloaded steer weight and you will have a safe and stable setup.

 

[lambone]

Well guys, got my truck back from the shop (Mopar 2” lift drives wonderfully!)

And it looks a little more bleak for my trailer situation.

Stickered Payload is #1442

I think I’m going to load up the family in the truck and have us weighed just to see where we are at with just the truck and no gear, and see what payload capacity is remaining.

Sadly the two bunckhouse trailers I’m looking at are within the gross weight specs but have pretty heavy loaded tongue weights that are likely going to put us over GVWR even with an empty truck bed.

The trailers are a Nash 25c and a Lance 2185 just in case anyone is curious.

 

[devildodge]

Curious as to what you find at the scale.

Dang blasted tongue weight.

 

[lambone]

Well, thanks for the advice everybody!

I bit the bullet and bought a used trailer in very nice condition today. It’s a 2013 Nash 18L.

This model Nash is now discontinued. I like that it’s small enough for tighter campgrounds, and it has a separate bed for all 3 kiddos. Also came with an onboard generator!

Dry Weight - 4500
Dry tongue weight - 520
GVWR - 7000
Payload - 2500

Should be well within my truck ratings.

I’m guessing it will be max 6,000 lbs loaded.

 

[devildodge]

Good deal. Glad to see you found a trailer that works all around for you.

We only have 3 more months til our campgrounds open up.

Keep us posted on how it all works out.

 

[NDanecker]

I think many don't get the purpose of SAE J2807 standards. It was written and slowly adopted by manufacturers so that a consumer can compare towing specs of trucks from different brands, and for the specs to be meaningful. Back in the day each manufacturer stated their truck can tow X lbs followed by the competitor beating it with a higher rating. This turned into a weight capacity war with one major problem - each manufacturer based their numbers on their own criteria and consumers were not able to compare apples to apples. It has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with what a vehicle can legally tow. GCVWR is just a guide not a legal 'not to exceed'. I giggle when people go over their recommended weight rating by 100 lbs and the weight police nazi's come down on him like the world is going to end. As long you stay within the equipment ratings (axle, tires, hitch, etc) you are good from a legal standpoint.

The other factor which I'd like to add is never exceed what you feel comfortable with no matter if its legal, recommended not to exceed, or whatever. Stay within your own limits and comfort zone. Just because the law says you can tow sometimes you shouldn't tow it if you have no experience towing those weights, length trailers, etc. Retiree's that have never towed or driven anything larger than a Ford sedan who purchase a 60k lbs Class A bus towing a 30 ft cargo trailer the day they celebrate their 70th or 80th birthday scare the crap out of me. LOL Kicker is its all legal and most times require nothing more than a class D drivers license. Bring on the cataract sun glasses.

 

[lambone]

I based my own decision on comfortable tow weight based on my previous experience. As well as some helpful advice here, and on my RV manufacturer forums, and Facebook groups.

I towed a 27ft trailer with a 5,500lb dry weight and 7,000lb gvwr with a 5.7l Tundra with 4.10 gears.

It did ok but at times I felt a little white knuckles, especially in the wind. I convinced myself to upgrade to a 2500 MegaCab and the towing felt 100x better.

Then we decided we might as well try a 5th wheel on that 2500, and it towed like a beast. Never felt the 5th wheel behind us really.

And now I’m back in a 1/2to with an 18ft trailer. So it goes...I really prefer driving the 1500 so much more then that giant MegaCab.

On Monday I will get a taste of how well she pulls!