Towing with 2020 Big Horn 5.7l and 3.21

[Redfour5]

Still clear as mud... One person says I can add two people at 150 lbs ON TOP of the payload number. SAE is unclear with all their "assumptions" but no one clearly stating the impact on their own numbers. Absolute statements from conflicting sources say something else.

I'd like to see here....

If you go to the RAM website https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html and enter your VIN number, you can see the towing capacity of your specific vehicle. You should also look at the sticker on the inside of your door to compare. Generally speaking "max payload" will be the limiting number in relation to what you can tow as you look at your numbers.

Ram is "compliant" with SAE J2807 that provides the standard for towing for the industry. This standard, in relation to payload makes assumptions as part of the standard including a standardized weight for passengers, and towing equipment.

THE TWO WAYS IT COULD BE EXPLAINED

Compliant means that the max payload indicated by your VIN number for your specific truck means that you do NOT have to count 300 lbs for passengers or 69 lbs for towing equipment and that 369 lbs can be on top of your max payload raising your actual payload by that amount.

OR
Compliant means that the 300 lbs for passengers or 69 lbs for towing equipment and 10% tongue weight in the SAE J2807 is incorporated into the VIN number based max payload number. As a result, you must add all added weight including occupants, towing equipment and tongue weight together to assess whether your max payload number is exceeded. Any weight other than the original equipment used to establish the "max payload" MUST be counted to assess your actual payload in a given situation.

My thought is that the latter "or" is true vs the former "wishful thinking on my part" way to assess actual payload an individual can tow.

I'd sure love to see something like that. They key concept is establishing what the impact of the SAE J2807 standard is on the term "compliant."

 

[IvoryHemi]

Everyone missing the point of a WDH. It will literally split the static tongue weight between the truck and trailer. So a 1000 lb tongue weight becomes 500 lbs as seen on the truck. ( or whatever bar tension you use )

Incorrect and a weight scale will show you.

WDH shifts more weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle than it does back to the trailer axles. It still counts as payload, but shifting the weight helps keep you under GAWR and also increases steering ability by restoring front end weight.

Here you can see my 960 lb tongue weight is only reduced to 820 lbs with the WDH engaged. But the WDH shifts 500 lbs off the rear axle.

This is still a 820 lb payload hit.

 

[devildodge]

I officially give up

 

[5thGenLoco]

Incorrect and a weight scale will show you.

WDH shifts more weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle than it does back to the trailer axles. It still counts as payload, but shifting the weight helps keep you under GAWR and also increases steering ability by restoring front end weight.

Here you can see my 960 lb tongue weight is only reduced to 820 lbs with the WDH engaged. But the WDH shifts 500 lbs off the rear axle.

This is still a 820 lb payload hit.


View attachment 99495
View attachment 99496

Curious, what weight bars do you use? If I am asking that correctly.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Curious, what weight bars do you use? If I am asking that correctly.

Those weights were with a 4-point 10,000 lb Equalizer and 1,000 lb bars.

 

[Bavet]

I just posted this in another thread. Thought I would share it here too. As a disclaimer, I disconnected my WD hitch while weighing which according to one of the previous posts could affect my weights. There are lots of opinions out there and I thought disconnecting it was the way to go.

I wanted to share some info from my last camping trip that surprised me a bit. I've always wanted to know my truck/camper weights so this last trip I decided to take my setup to Loves to have it weighed on their CAT scale. I took the truck over first and returned the next day with the camper in tow. I have a 2019 Big Horn Crew Cab 4x4.

My truck, with my weight, a full tank of gas, and my tow hitch included, weighed 5880 lbs.
For the camping trip I added my wife, two full coolers, some fire wood, two beach chairs, a beach umbrella and a 4' aluminum ladder. All this added 399 lbs.
My tongue weight was determined to be 882 lbs, which equates to 12.9% of my total trailer weight of 6822 lbs.
So when you add up my truck weight, wife, cargo, and tongue weight, it equals 7161 lbs. That's 61 lbs over the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating listed on the spec sticker attached to my door sill.
My trailer weights were all well within the capabilities of my truck.

I guess my point to all of this is payload ratings can be eaten up pretty quick and I didn't even realize it. I certainly didn't think I overloaded the truck. Simple fix would be to move some things back to the trailer but I don't think my wife would like the ride back there. HaHa!

All that being said, I know that when my kids were younger and we packed the whole family into the truck with coolers and gear, I'm almost certain we exceeded the truck's weight limits.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience and would recommend anyone to get their truck/camper setup weighed.

 

[5thGenLoco]

I just posted this in another thread. Thought I would share it here too. As a disclaimer, I disconnected my WD hitch while weighing which according to one of the previous posts could affect my weights. There are lots of opinions out there and I thought disconnecting it was the way to go.

I wanted to share some info from my last camping trip that surprised me a bit. I've always wanted to know my truck/camper weights so this last trip I decided to take my setup to Loves to have it weighed on their CAT scale. I took the truck over first and returned the next day with the camper in tow. I have a 2019 Big Horn Crew Cab 4x4.

My truck, with my weight, a full tank of gas, and my tow hitch included, weighed 5880 lbs.
For the camping trip I added my wife, two full coolers, some fire wood, two beach chairs, a beach umbrella and a 4' aluminum ladder. All this added 399 lbs.
My tongue weight was determined to be 882 lbs, which equates to 12.9% of my total trailer weight of 6822 lbs.
So when you add up my truck weight, wife, cargo, and tongue weight, it equals 7161 lbs. That's 61 lbs over the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating listed on the spec sticker attached to my door sill.
My trailer weights were all well within the capabilities of my truck.

I guess my point to all of this is payload ratings can be eaten up pretty quick and I didn't even realize it. I certainly didn't think I overloaded the truck. Simple fix would be to move some things back to the trailer but I don't think my wife would like the ride back there. HaHa!

All that being said, I know that when my kids were younger and we packed the whole family into the truck with coolers and gear, I'm almost certain we exceeded the truck's weight limits.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience and would recommend anyone to get their truck/camper setup weighed.

Thanks for sharing. The more I research, the more I realize how many people on the road are likely overloaded, significantly so in many cases.

I also discovered moving weight to the trailer from the bed is a prudent move when possible. That has allowed me to research larger trailers for our future purchase.

Oh, good call not throwing the wife in the trailer. Of course if you did, you'd probably not be posting

 

[5thGenLoco]

Or, maybe we have it wrong...

 

[ManBOOYA]

With respect to the higher tow rating for the 3.92, I would think a tongue weight under 10% would be ok for towing under 35mph? Seems like stability wouldn't be much of an issue at low speed? Thinking about moving something like a bobcat from one jobsite to a nearby jobsite.

Yeah I would imagine you fudge the tongue weight quite a bit if you weren’t going at a high rate of speed. But I wouldn’t do it on-road as it’s unpredictable when braking or turning

 

[MarkkraM]

We just got back from camping, pulling a 24' TT with our 3.21. I used air bags to level out the truck. It pulled ok. Going uphill seemed like it put a lot of work on the engine, but the tranny temp stayed normal. Gas mileage was what I expected, but hey that's glamping for you.

 

[5thGenLoco]

We just got back from camping, pulling a 24' TT with our 3.21. I used air bags to level out the truck. It pulled ok. Going uphill seemed like it put a lot of work on the engine, but the tranny temp stayed normal. Gas mileage was what I expected, but hey that's glamping for you.

Curious what your loaded weight was.

 

[MarkkraM]

Well, the trailer is 5000 dry, plus 1500 in cargo. Tongue weight is 13%. So around 850 plus 2 adults and a child and a few things in the truck. I didn't weigh it though. My truck has a load capacity of a little over 1600lbs.

 

[Andymax]

We just got back from camping, pulling a 24' TT with our 3.21. I used air bags to level out the truck. It pulled ok. Going uphill seemed like it put a lot of work on the engine, but the tranny temp stayed normal. Gas mileage was what I expected, but hey that's glamping for you.

Are you saying you ONLY used the airbags and no WDH?

 

[MarkkraM]

Air bags and wdh. I should have specifies that

 

[dannymcd]

Mine is 7800lbs fully loaded (purposely put more than I'll ever put in it), truck with 2 adults, 3 children and 2 dogs. At the cat scale I was 140lbs over the payload and 100lbs over the GVCW. So my 1 Great Dane is 11 and she'll be leaving us soon, after our first trip we've been leaving her home with a sitter mainly because she doesn't do well camping anymore but also to make sure our payload is in the green. So, I'm right at the limit of the truck. I have a weigh safe WDH so I can adjust the amount of distribution that helps with the payload/trailer load. I've put a 5100 Bilstein lift on the front on #7 (2.6" lift) a 1.5" spacer on the rear with airlift 1000HD airbags, and 275/65r20 E-rated Michelin Agilis Crossclimate's. Anyway, without the Airbags it had an annoying seesaw bounce, that's completely gone but like other have stated they do little to help with squat, I think the Bilstein's have helped with that as well. The tires have made a huge difference in crosswinds, they're not as eager to change direction, but i think that the difference between an LT tire and an SL tire. Anyways, campers will have an unloaded weight, mine says 5400lbs on the VIN, on the side of the camper and on the door, when I took it to the cat scale straight from the dealer is was 6400 empty, way heavier than the sticker. So keep that in mind, have them scale it with propane and batteries. For me I thought I was going to have over a 1/2ton cushion but it's more like 200#'s. The truck pulls just fine thru hills of WV and 8% grade at 65-70mph, the temps never budge from the 210-220F that they normally do not towing, ditto for the trans temp, the only thing that got hot was the oil going from 240F to 275F on the 3mi long 8% grade hill climb, I use Amsoil HD so I'm not too concerned about the oil breaking down, but I might add an additional oil cooler if it's not too involved. I've towed 1300mi this year with no problems, also something to note Ram doesn't list service intervals for the trans, but the trans mfg recommends 100k km's for normal use and 60k km's for heavy duty use so if you're towing often a trans flush at 40k miles is probably a good idea, I just hit that mileage and I don't know what the previous owner used the truck for so I'm just going to have it done anyway.

 

[Cudapower]

I know this has been rehashed over and over again. But I was hoping someone could double check my numbers. I ran everything through a towing calculator
Payload - 1541
GVWR - 7100
GCVWR - 13900
It appear my max tow limit is approx 7000 pounds with two adults in the vehicle.
I would like to purchase this trailer (Grand Design 247bh)

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do the numbers all make sense to the more experienced towing people here ?

What I have run into also is that the listed truck empty weight is bogus. My truck empty actually weighs 6100 lbs not the 5200 they list. actually weigh your truck with a full tank and add the people and stuff you are going to haul. When I do that I barely have 1000 lbs capacity for the trailer. I am shifting weight and struggling with my trailer, 800 lbs tongue, 6600 lb trailer to make the numbers.

 

[devildodge]

What I have run into also is that the listed truck empty weight is bogus. My truck empty actually weighs 6100 lbs not the 5200 they list. actually weigh your truck with a full tank and add the people and stuff you are going to haul. When I do that I barely have 1000 lbs capacity for the trailer. I am shifting weight and struggling with my trailer, 800 lbs tongue, 6600 lb trailer to make the numbers.

Not sure if you posted. What is your door sticker payload?

And where did you weigh it?

 

[IvoryHemi]

What I have run into also is that the listed truck empty weight is bogus. My truck empty actually weighs 6100 lbs not the 5200 they list. actually weigh your truck with a full tank and add the people and stuff you are going to haul. When I do that I barely have 1000 lbs capacity for the trailer. I am shifting weight and struggling with my trailer, 800 lbs tongue, 6600 lb trailer to make the numbers.

This makes it sound like you are at 6,100 lbs loaded with people, leaving you 1,000 lbs for your 800 lb tongue weight.

Which weight are you struggling with? GVWR or GAWR?