Towing with 2020 Big Horn 5.7l and 3.21

[ManBOOYA]

I know this has been rehashed over and over again. But I was hoping someone could double check my numbers. I ran everything through a towing calculator
Payload - 1541
GVWR - 7100
GCVWR - 13900
It appear my max tow limit is approx 7000 pounds with two adults in the vehicle.
I would like to purchase this trailer (Grand Design 247bh)

Explore and learn more about Grand Design Transcend Xplor 247BH

Explore the top-rated Grand Design RV Transcend Xplor 247bh travel trailers. Exceptional design, value, and touring capabilities.

www.granddesignrv.com

do the numbers all make sense to the more experienced towing people here ?

 

[silver billet]

The only number worth worrying about is payload. You will never hit the GCWR on the truck before hitting payload.

Max payload of that trailer is 7000 pounds. The hitch weight is about 10%, using the UVW and hitch weight specs above. So if you load up the trailer to the max you are at 7000 pounds, with 10% TW you are using 700 pounds payload. Lets be safe and assume you put more cargo to the front of the trailer so now your tongue weight is 800 pounds. Also remember battery + propane at the front, those weights are not included in this.

You have 1540 pounds of payload available.
-800 for the trailer TW = 740 pounds left.
-100 for the WDH = 640 pounds left
-500 for two adults at #250 pounds each = 140 pounds left for cargo in the truck, or more TW due to battery + propane etc.

So yes, you will be fine if you stay under GVWR of the trailer itself. And please also remember you need to use a Weight Distributing Hitch (WDH).

 

[ManBOOYA]

The only number worth worrying about is payload. You will never hit the GCWR on the truck before hitting payload.

Max payload of that trailer is 7000 pounds. The hitch weight is about 10%, using the UVW and hitch weight specs above. So if you load up the trailer to the max you are at 7000 pounds, with 10% TW you are using 700 pounds payload. Lets be safe and assume you put more cargo to the front of the trailer so now your tongue weight is 800 pounds. Also remember battery + propane at the front, those weights are not included in this.

You have 1540 pounds of payload available.
-800 for the trailer TW = 740 pounds left.
-100 for the WDH = 640 pounds left
-500 for two adults at #250 pounds each = 140 pounds left for cargo in the truck, or more TW due to battery + propane etc.

So yes, you will be fine if you stay under GVWR of the trailer itself. And please also remember you need to use a Weight Distributing Hitch (WDH).

Thank you. I just wanted to make sure before I put money down on anything.

 

[cj7]

I know this has been rehashed over and over again. But I was hoping someone could double check my numbers. I ran everything through a towing calculator
Payload - 1541
GVWR - 7100
GCVWR - 13900
It appear my max tow limit is approx 7000 pounds with two adults in the vehicle.
I would like to purchase this trailer (Grand Design 247bh)

Explore and learn more about Grand Design Transcend Xplor 247BH

Explore the top-rated Grand Design RV Transcend Xplor 247bh travel trailers. Exceptional design, value, and touring capabilities.

www.granddesignrv.com

do the numbers all make sense to the more experienced towing people here ?

Nice TT! Enjoy it!

Numbers look good. Willing to bet the advertised weight and tongue are lower than actual, so if you can, take the empty new TT to the scales. Weight the truck separately, and then the combo, with and w/o WD.

I pull a Mesa Ridge 2504BH comfortably, but loaded, it’s actual tongue weight and truck loading get close to truck payload limits. As delivered, the brochure #s were >300 lbs low on gross and >100 lbs low on tongue. Then I switched to a 460ah battery bank and inverter on the yoke, so that didnt help.

Examine the trailer tires carefully. I don’t trust the cheap imported crap the manufacturers put on now, and after the first trip, replace them with Goodyear Endurance. A trailer backup cam, trailer TPMS and bumper hitch for the bike carrier, were the only other ‘required’ mods.

 

[Partime43]

I just towed this Airstream to South Dakota and back with no issues. 10.5 mpg and had little to no problems. 2800 miles round trip 4 of us in the truck plus cargo. trailer has a GVWR of 7300 lbs.

 

[MarkkraM]

View attachment 97466 I just towed this Airstream to South Dakota and back with no issues. 10.5 mpg and had little to no problems. 2800 miles round trip 4 of us in the truck plus cargo. trailer has a GVWR of 7300 lbs.

Are you using any airbags? Even with WDH, how is the sag/squat?

 

[BigEarl62]

Are you using any airbags? Even with WDH, how is the sag/squat?

No airbags on mine. Just a weight distributing hitch. The rear dropped 1” and the front did not change, it eliminated the rake, that’s it. I tow a similar GD trailer with a gross weight of 6995 pounds.

 

[Andymax]

No airbags on mine. Just a weight distributing hitch. The rear dropped 1” and the front did not change, it eliminated the rake, that’s it. I tow a similar GD trailer with a gross weight of 6995 pounds.

Is that the Imagine XLS 22MLE ?? If so, are you happy with it? Sorry to hijack the thread.

 

[Scram1500]

3.21 is fine for towing, 3.92 is really just for larger tires. The tow rating on the 3.92 is very misleading as you will exceed payload in the process

 

[ManBOOYA]

3.21 is fine for towing, 3.92 is really just for larger tires. The tow rating on the 3.92 is very misleading as you will exceed payload in the process

Everything I’ve read says the same thing. The 3.92 doesn’t seem to help with towing unless you are towing a heavy trailer that has a light tongue weight. And everything I’ve read on that says you don’t want a trailer with a (less than 10%) tongue weight at all

 

[Redfour5]

I ended up with the 3.21 after having the 3.92 gearing in my 2015 Outdoorsman. This TFL video made me feel better about it. I got a "Built to Serve" edition that checked all my boxes except the rear gear. This has a Ram with the 3.21 towing 7800 lbs and being at pretty much maxed out on weight on both capacity and total towing up the Ike Gauntlet with relative ease...

 

[5thGenLoco]

I ended up with the 3.21 after having the 3.92 gearing in my 2015 Outdoorsman. This TFL video made me feel better about it. I got a "Built to Serve" edition that checked all my boxes except the rear gear. This has a Ram with the 3.21 towing 7800 lbs and being at pretty much maxed out on weight on both capacity and total towing up the Ike Gauntlet with relative ease...

That Ram must have been absolutely fully optioned out with only 1010 load capacity. With those two dudes and ~750 tw, they were well over the 1010.

 

[Redfour5]

That Ram must have been absolutely fully optioned out with only 1010 load capacity. With those two dudes and ~750 tw, they were well over the 1010.

Yep, it had to be fully loaded... This is the interesting thing I have been studying and was going to do a post on the SAE J2807 standard that dictates the numbers used. There are assumptions in the SAE standard that address the passengers and a hitch. So, for example, two passengers at 150 lbs and a 70 lb hitch and 10% tongue weight (based upon the total weight of the trailer) are "assumed" in the the rating.

What does this "really" mean when you "assume" these things in the standard?

So, my truck using the VIN look up from RAM says that I have a max payload of 1277 lbs. (Pretty loaded) Since payload is usually the limiting factor for towing, I am concentrating upon that part of the standard. So, on the surface, I can put 1277 lbs of "payload" in the truck. My assumption was that this included me and my wife and whatever the trailer tongue weighed. I am right at my limit with that.

BUT, if the assumptions are already plugged into the standard, does that mean that RAM figured my tow rating/payload AFTER the assumptions or before? I mean, IF the Standard "assumes" 370 lbs and 10% of the trailer, that implies that my payload is ON TOP of the assumptions. Right?

So, it is still not completely clear what the payload number means in my opinion. I hope someone can clear this up. Back in the day before the standard was accepted, there were pages in manuals that said things like... This tow and payload rating assume the there is a 150 lb driver in the car AND SO you could actually put the payload on the vehicle and IF it was 150 lbs over that was OK, because the 150 driver was "assumed" in the rating.

So, what is it? quit over thinking it for me? Go by what RAM says or otherwise. I think my original assumption of just accepting what the RAM site says is correct, but it is NOT clear... OH, for those people trying to do the math, this is the RAM website where you can find your specific truck tow ratings by VIN number https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html

As noted, I wish someone could clear up the "assumptions" in the Standard and how they apply to the ratings on the website including other trucks.

 

[devildodge]

Yep, it had to be fully loaded... This is the interesting thing I have been studying and was going to do a post on the SAE J2807 standard that dictates the numbers used. There are assumptions in the SAE standard that address the passengers and a hitch. So, for example, two passengers at 150 lbs and a 70 lb hitch and 10% tongue weight (based upon the total weight of the trailer) are "assumed" in the the rating.

What does this "really" mean when you "assume" these things in the standard?

So, my truck using the VIN look up from RAM says that I have a max payload of 1277 lbs. (Pretty loaded) Since payload is usually the limiting factor for towing, I am concentrating upon that part of the standard. So, on the surface, I can put 1277 lbs of "payload" in the truck. My assumption was that this included me and my wife and whatever the trailer tongue weighed. I am right at my limit with that.

BUT, if the assumptions are already plugged into the standard, does that mean that RAM figured my tow rating/payload AFTER the assumptions or before? I mean, IF the Standard "assumes" 370 lbs and 10% of the trailer, that implies that my payload is ON TOP of the assumptions. Right?

So, it is still not completely clear what the payload number means in my opinion. I hope someone can clear this up. Back in the day before the standard was accepted, there were pages in manuals that said things like... This tow and payload rating assume the there is a 150 lb driver in the car AND SO you could actually put the payload on the vehicle and IF it was 150 lbs over that was OK, because the 150 driver was "assumed" in the rating.

So, what is it? quit over thinking it for me? Go by what RAM says or otherwise. I think my original assumption of just accepting what the RAM site says is correct, but it is NOT clear... OH, for those people trying to do the math, this is the RAM website where you can find your specific truck tow ratings by VIN number https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html

As noted, I wish someone could clear up the "assumptions" in the Standard and how they apply to the ratings on the website including other trucks.

We explain this in great detail.

The assumptuons are only for max tow and I explain in great detail the max tow the configurator gives is just GCWR minus Base weight.

So thr configurator is a weight with no driver or hitch

The assumptions are used on the chart. As we have explained in great detail the charts are a tradesman trim.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Yep, it had to be fully loaded... This is the interesting thing I have been studying and was going to do a post on the SAE J2807 standard that dictates the numbers used. There are assumptions in the SAE standard that address the passengers and a hitch. So, for example, two passengers at 150 lbs and a 70 lb hitch and 10% tongue weight (based upon the total weight of the trailer) are "assumed" in the the rating.

What does this "really" mean when you "assume" these things in the standard?

So, my truck using the VIN look up from RAM says that I have a max payload of 1277 lbs. (Pretty loaded) Since payload is usually the limiting factor for towing, I am concentrating upon that part of the standard. So, on the surface, I can put 1277 lbs of "payload" in the truck. My assumption was that this included me and my wife and whatever the trailer tongue weighed. I am right at my limit with that.

BUT, if the assumptions are already plugged into the standard, does that mean that RAM figured my tow rating/payload AFTER the assumptions or before? I mean, IF the Standard "assumes" 370 lbs and 10% of the trailer, that implies that my payload is ON TOP of the assumptions. Right?

So, it is still not completely clear what the payload number means in my opinion. I hope someone can clear this up. Back in the day before the standard was accepted, there were pages in manuals that said things like... This tow and payload rating assume the there is a 150 lb driver in the car AND SO you could actually put the payload on the vehicle and IF it was 150 lbs over that was OK, because the 150 driver was "assumed" in the rating.

So, what is it? quit over thinking it for me? Go by what RAM says or otherwise. I think my original assumption of just accepting what the RAM site says is correct, but it is NOT clear... OH, for those people trying to do the math, this is the RAM website where you can find your specific truck tow ratings by VIN number https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html

As noted, I wish someone could clear up the "assumptions" in the Standard and how they apply to the ratings on the website including other trucks.

Payload is pretty clear, it’s simply GVWR minus curb weight.

Your 1,277 lbs does not “include” a 150 lb driver. You subtract driver (& passenger) weight from that number

 

[devildodge]

GVWR minus payload equals base weight


GCWR minus base weight equals max towing

That simple. No over thinking.

GVWR and payload are on your door jamb.

GCWR is found in the charts. For a Hemi there are 2 3.21 is 13900 and 3.92 is 17000.

Max towing is not max trailer.

Why anyone would care if they give an allowance for weight is beyond me. Everyone weighs something different and I do not a grown man so weighs 150lbs.

To get max trailering you have to realize tongue weight. A utility trailer will be 10%...but a camper is gonna be 12 to 17%.

This is where payload can limit towing.

So for example you have a Hemi 3.92 with 1450 payload.

7100 minus 1450 equals 5650

17000 minus 5650 equals 11350

A WDH weighs about 100lbs. So starting point is 11250.

If towing a camper it is better to reverse engineer.

5650 plus 100 WDH and atleast a driver. I am 300 so for just me that leaves 1050 for tongue weight. But I have a family...see how little that tongue weight becomes.

You get the picture. Thousands of times I have wrote this here. Every few weeks someone thinks they found the magic to get a bigger trailer.

 

[5thGenLoco]

So to summarize; lose weight or lose the family, equals more trailer

Clear cut explanation, thanks DD.

 

[nc_beagle]

Everything I’ve read says the same thing. The 3.92 doesn’t seem to help with towing unless you are towing a heavy trailer that has a light tongue weight. And everything I’ve read on that says you don’t want a trailer with a (less than 10%) tongue weight at all

With respect to the higher tow rating for the 3.92, I would think a tongue weight under 10% would be ok for towing under 35mph? Seems like stability wouldn't be much of an issue at low speed? Thinking about moving something like a bobcat from one jobsite to a nearby jobsite.

 

[tjcart]

Everyone missing the point of a WDH. It will literally split the static tongue weight between the truck and trailer. So a 1000 lb tongue weight becomes 500 lbs as seen on the truck. ( or whatever bar tension you use )

So payload numbers are not as critical as you think. That's why every manufacurer states that you must use a WDH on any trailer over 5000 lbs.

 

[devildodge]

Everyone missing the point of a WDH. It will literally split the static tongue weight between the truck and trailer. So a 1000 lb tongue weight becomes 500 lbs as seen on the truck. ( or whatever bar tension you use )

So payload numbers are not as critical as you think. That's why every manufacurer states that you must use a WDH on any trailer over 5000 lbs.

That tongue weight is still on the truck....the WDH puts it back to the front. And some to the trailer.

1000lbs to 500...you really think that