Test drove ED today. What to buy?

[StuartV]

I test drove a '22 Laramie with an EcoDiesel today. First time I've driven an ED.

I had an '09 RAM 1500 with Hemi until I traded it for my '19 1500 Hemi w/eTorque. I like how my truck runs and drives with the Hemi. Both my trucks had/have the 3.92 rear end. The ED I drove today also had a 3.92. The main difference is my trucks have been 4x4 and today's ED was 4x2. I'm not going to buy the one I drove. I just drove it to see how the engine drives. I'm going to order what I want.

And, dang! I REALLY liked driving the ED! I was expecting lag and sluggishness (I have owned 3 different Ford SuperDutys with PowerStrokes in the past). I did some in-town, stop-and-go, and some Interstate. For me and the way I drive (which is pretty much with a lead foot), I felt like it drove better than either of my Hemis. Off the line felt just as quick (for a normal-for-me take-off, not a drag start). Response to throttle tip-in when deciding to speed up to pass was great. The only thing I could maybe feel like the Hemi does better at is when you put the pedal to the floor. I did that on the Interstate a couple of times and my seat-of-the-pants says the Hemi pulls a little harder at full throttle. As I would expect when comparing their horsepower numbers...

The ED also is NOTICEABLY quieter than the Hemi. Going down the highway, just cruising, I can still just barely hear my Hemi. Not the ED. And when putting my foot into it, I can hear the Hemi easily, where the ED is still pretty darn quiet. I like the way my Hemi sounds, but overall I would be perfectly happy if it was totally quiet. So, the ED wins that one - to ME.

I drove the ED because I was expecting to not like it all that much and driving it would just let me cross it off my list and stop second-guessing what I want to order. It had the opposite effect.

So, I ran the numbers. Identically configured, the way I would order it, the difference in price (on a loaded Laramie) between a Hemi w/eTorque and an ED is $2,200.

According to Fuelly, Hemis w/eTorque are averaging 16 MPG and 3rd gen ED's are averaging 22.

Gas here is currently $3.89 and diesel is $4.96. The math on all that works out to just a cost in fuel of 24.5 cents per mile for the Hemi and 22.5 cents for the ED.

Which means you have to drive the ED for 110K miles just to break even on the extra cost to buy one (based on current fuel costs). And that does not account for any difference in maintenance costs (e.g. oil changes) or the cost of DEF. I'm *guessing* the ED has a higher cost of maintenance. So, really, the ED probably really doesn't save me any money at all. Though, my brother has been shopping for a new/used truck recently and he said used EDs are generally about $5k higher than comparable used Hemis, from what he's seen. So, maybe a higher resale value would more than make up for the extra purchase price.

So, now I'm in a quandary. Which one do I want to order? Right this moment, I feel like I liked driving the ED better. But, I'm also concerned that it will have reliability or drivability issues, where the Hemi is more of a known quantity.

I drive a lot. Mostly highway driving on weekend road trips to go scuba diving. I work from home. Thus how I have racked up 71K miles on my '19 in 3 years (while working from home the whole time).

With the 33 gallon tank in my '19, the range has been perfectly fine for me. The only time I have ever wished the tank was bigger was the one time I towed a very overweight trailer from near DC to SC. I was stopping for gas every something like 200 to 250 miles. But, that just proves (to me) that the tank and range on the Hemi is actually fine for me and my needs. Nevertheless, the range I would have with an ED is kind of appealing. 700 miles or so between fill-ups instead of 400? No real practical benefit most of the time, but maybe could be someday, in a natural disaster emergency type situation.

Whichever engine I order, my plan is to get a 3.21 rear end this time. I drive a lot at 80 MPH and the 3.92 has me turning 2200 RPMs. A 3.21 should have me at 1800. I am EXPECTING to get 1 or 2 MPG better (from a Hemi) just from that change. My current average (calculated by Fuelly, where I have logged every fill-up I have ever done in my '19) is 14.1MPG. If that went up to 16 with a new Hemi, that would still be a major improvement (and savings) for me.

If you have any input to help me decide between the Hemi w/eTorque or the ED, I would be happy to hear it. And if you actually read this far, thank you!

 

[StuartV]

Also, my brother is telling me that with an EcoDiesel, the DPF is only covered by warranty for the first 3yr/36K.

He says even if I buy the Mopar MaxCare 5/100 warranty, the DPF is not covered after 3/36. And, he says it's something like $4500 when it does finally get plugged up and have to be fixed/replaced.

That just doesn't sound right, to me. If, for no other reason than I thought EPA emissions regulations required every auto manufacturer to warranty engine emissions systems for 7 years, period.

But even if the EPA thing has changed or the DPF is excepted somehow, it still seems like a MaxCare warranty would cover it.

Anybody know what the real story is on this?

 

[djevox]

I bought a ‘21 ram 1500 with 4x4, hemi, and 3.92’s. I traded it 4 months later for an ecodiesel with 3.21’s. I knew I would be at a large deficit and never recoup my money, but I loathe paying for fuel. Ecodiesel clearly wins there.

Since you drive with a lead foot, you’ll probably be around 22ish in the summer and 20ish in the winter. I drive pretty conservatively, but cruise between 75-80 whenever I can.

These screenshots show my averages over the lifetime of the trucks:

Hemi:


Ecodiesel (last tank was crap gas from wawa):


Yes, maintenance will be a tad higher, but aftermarket parts and filters prices (with the exception of fuel filter) are on par with aftermarket hemi prices.

Oh, and if you put a tuner on this thing, my butt dyno says it pulls as hard as the hemi.

 

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

Even with the 3.21, my EcoDiesel is pretty peppy, it gets out of its own way without any trouble, but I rarely ever drive it hard. It's almost exactly as fast as my '15 V6 Frontier.
The Hemi and ED are going to be 2 completely different personalities. The Hemi is always tugging at the leash and begging you to drive it hard, the ED is letting you lay back and enjoy the drive.
The biggest difference you'll notice is when towing. The Hemi is always trying to rev up into the power band. The EcoDiesel is always in the power band, just yanks the trailer along without even breaking 2,000rpm.

BTW, EPA averages the EcoDiesel around 26mpg. I've been getting around 28 on my regular commute, so the savings is bigger than you think. My Frontier gets about 17.5 on average and I can tell you it's a nice savings. It's also nice not having to fill up every week, so get the big tank.

 

[StuartV]

I bought a ‘21 ram 1500 with 4x4, hemi, and 3.92’s. I traded it 4 months later for an ecodiesel with 3.21’s. I knew I would be at a large deficit and never recoup my money, but I loathe paying for fuel. Ecodiesel clearly wins there.

Since you drive with a lead foot, you’ll probably be around 22ish in the summer and 20ish in the winter. I drive pretty conservatively, but cruise between 75-80 whenever I can.

These screenshots show my averages over the lifetime of the trucks:

Hemi:
View attachment 134093

Ecodiesel (last tank was crap gas from wawa):
View attachment 134094

Yes, maintenance will be a tad higher, but aftermarket parts and filters prices (with the exception of fuel filter) are on par with aftermarket hemi prices.

Oh, and if you put a tuner on this thing, my butt dyno says it pulls as hard as the hemi.

Awesome info! Thank you!

One question: Did your Hemi have eTorque?

 

[StuartV]

Yes, maintenance will be a tad higher, but aftermarket parts and filters prices (with the exception of fuel filter) are on par with aftermarket hemi prices.

That's another set of questions.

My brother said the fuel filter is $380. How often do you have to change that?

And is there an alternative?

How often do you have to change the oil? I change mine every 5K, but that's because I bought a Mopar Maintenance plan when I bought the truck that provides oil changes every 5K. The truck always says my Oil Life is at 50% when I'm at 5K miles.

 

[Mchurch52]

That's another set of questions.

My brother said the fuel filter is $380. How often do you have to change that?

And is there an alternative?

How often do you have to change the oil? I change mine every 5K, but that's because I bought a Mopar Maintenance plan when I bought the truck that provides oil changes every 5K. The truck always says my Oil Life is at 50% when I'm at 5K miles.

That fuel filter price is totally wrong, I just bought an OEM MOPAR filter this week from Diesel Filters Online for $44.79. The factory recommended interval is every 20,000 miles. The manual says to change the oil every 10,000 miles, I normally do mine every 7500.

 

[djevox]

That's another set of questions.

My brother said the fuel filter is $380. How often do you have to change that?

And is there an alternative?

How often do you have to change the oil? I change mine every 5K, but that's because I bought a Mopar Maintenance plan when I bought the truck that provides oil changes every 5K. The truck always says my Oil Life is at 50% when I'm at 5K miles.

Mchurch covered the fuel filter well. At every 20k, I’ll just spend the $45 on an OEM filter and keep using aftermarket oil filters for $18-24ea. The only thing I differ from him on is that I change oil every 5k. I won’t go past that because of soot loading of the oil.

My hemi was non-etorque.

 

[go-ram]

It is correct that, in general, the extra purchase cost of the ED over the Hemi (or even the 3.6 L gas) is recouped at time of sale. Of course, if you otherwise would have invested the difference btwn Ed & Hemi and were lucky enough to get a good ROI on the stock market, the payback for the ED is longer.
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My loaded 2020 4x4 Longhorn ED with 3.21 rear tachs at 1500 RPM at 65 MPH.
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I drive it easy, tow very infrequently, I average a calculated 26.5 MPG overall (dash indicator is usually optimistic by 1.5-2.5 MPG).
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If you do get a 3.21 ED and for any reason acceleration feels laggy, get a Banks Pedal Monster. Fully legal, even in CA. It's a very good product, from everything I've heard (I don't need one for myself). Listen to the Truck Show Podcast and maybe hit up Lightning Tilles for a podcast listener discount.
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Definitely get the 33-gal tank.
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If you have to get up into the bed frequently, consider the Multi-Function Tailgate (MFT). I discovered it was the best $995 I ever spent, because it makes it WAY easier for me to get into and out of the bed. I open the left swing gate, grab the top of the open left-gate and the closed right-gate, step on the bumper in front of the license plate, and it's easy-peasy for even this 65-YO with lower back issues to hike himself up into, and back down out of, the bed. Way faster and easier than any of the official steps & handles the other truck makers have come up with. Just something to think about if you do use your bed that way. I also got Ram Boxes, and I wouldn't trade them for anything, either.
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Unless you're VernDiesel posting on this site (VernDiesel delivers travel trailers & boats for a living), you can't justify the ED in the short term, only in the very long term, but remember you get the difference back on the ED when you sell). But it's a WANT thing, not a logical thing. If you really enjoy the ED, don't even try to justify it economically. Just buy it and enjoy it, and pay no attention to any dingbat bigmouth that starts yakking about never recouping the cost - they just don't get it.
.

 

[asgadf/lkjnadsfg]

It sounds like you want the ED, so get it.

You are selling a three year old truck. Is that normal for you? If you sell your vehicles every three years, then all the break-even mileage and long term maintenance costs are irrelevant to your analysis because you won't own it long enough to hit either of those situations.

Buy what you like.

 

[monkeypunch]

Love my Ecodiesel with the 33 gallon tank. I get 22-23 mpg per the trucks calculations. The extra cost is worth the quiet ride and range.

 

[Wtray]

I had a 2019 Hemi with a 3.92 and got tired of my 12Mpg around town here in the PACNORWEST, lots of hills. hardly ever did I see above 17 MPG on the highway with it. Now, I have a 21 EcoDiesel with 3.92, Banks derringer and pedal monster combo and damn this thing can move. I see 27 MPG on the highway and about 20/21 in town which depends on how happily i push the go pedal.

 

[Kooch80]

I currently have a 22 limited Ecodiesel, previously had a 19 rebel hemi no etorque. I prefer the way the eco diesel drives. I put the pedal monster on it as soon as I got it home and that is enough for me (also used it in the 19 Ram and 21 gladiator ecodiesel, hate the pedal lag). I have the 3.21 rear end and I'm spinning 1550 for rpms at 70. I personally think it passes better at highway speeds than the hemi as well. I live in western Washington and drive mostly highway (rural and freeway type) only used half a tank so far and it's gotten me about 385 miles. No f6ull up yet so no fuel mileage calculation but the computer says 27 (not that I ever trust those )

I think for what you described for use the eco diesel with 3.21 fits

 

[70runner]

Another happy diesel owner. Bought mine in WA state, drove it home to SOCAL. Averaged almost 28mpg on 1400mi trip, one (and only) fuel stop at exactly 836mi on odo (33gal tank). First diy oil change at 5K. At almost 9Kmi, overall avg mpg at 25.1, combo freeway/city. Double the mpg from my previous 2014 5.7L Tundra. Very quiet, minor tire noise with aggressive treads on Rebel. Love this truck. 33gal tank a must along with the HUD.

 

[n8zcc]

I drive a lot. Mostly highway driving on weekend road trips to go scuba diving. I work from home. Thus how I have racked up 71K miles on my '19 in 3 years (while working from home the whole time).

If you have any input to help me decide between the Hemi w/eTorque or the ED, I would be happy to hear it. And if you actually read this far, thank you!

MPG varies just about as much as the cost of a gallon of fuel. The spread on a gallon of diesel around me is $.79. You will realize a lot more MPGs than what you see on fuelly. Fuelly is only as accurate as the data that goes it to it. If there is more representation of city drivers with nothing but stop and go, yep, lower MPGs.

I experience 32 to 36 MPG when freeway driving depending on wind load. I just got back from a 2,500-mile trip from Michigan to South Dakota and back and averaged 29.2 MPG.

 

[StuartV]

It sounds like you want the ED, so get it.

You are selling a three year old truck. Is that normal for you? If you sell your vehicles every three years, then all the break-even mileage and long term maintenance costs are irrelevant to your analysis because you won't own it long enough to hit either of those situations.

Buy what you like.

I had my '09 RAM for 10 years and 193K miles. But, that meant that when I went to trade it in, I had very little equity in it, so my payment on my current truck is a lot higher than I want. If I had the self-discipline to keep making a "payment" to myself into savings somewhere, towards my next truck, I could make it work for me to keep them a long time again in the future. But I don't, so I promised myself that in the future I will not keep anything past when its paid for (at the most).

When I bought this one, I really wanted a diesel, but they didn't have them yet. So, I told myself when I bought it that I only planned to keep it for 2 - 3 years, by which time the ED should be available and sorted out (assuming 1st year production gremlins). So, now is that time.

Also, I've been really racking up the miles on my '19. 71K, so far, after exactly 3 years. I want to trade it before the value really starts to drop off.

One reason I kept my '09 for so long was that I had a MOPAR Lifetime MaxCare warranty on it. And I used it quite a few times. Got WAY more than my money's worth out of that. That experience taught me that I also don't want to own one of these trucks past when the warranty runs out. I have a 5/100 MaxCare on my current truck.

In my '09, my Hemi broke exhaust header bolts and developed an exhaust leak something like 7 times while I had it. Every time, it was repaired under warranty. I would not have wanted to be paying out of pocket for that repair. Especially that many times.

I thought for sure that by now RAM would have that problem with the Hemi sorted out. But, my '19 has already had the same repair done once, at around the 50K mark, and has just started making noises that suggest it's going to need the same repair again soon.

Which all circles back to me not wanting to keep one of these trucks past 100K miles - and always buying the Mopar 5/100 MaxCare warranty. I know the exhaust leak should be covered by the standard 100K powertrain warranty, but there is SO much other stuff to break - especially on a fully loaded Laramie/Longhorn/Limited - that I just want the insurance.

Lastly, the amount of time I own it really has nothing to do with the break-even analysis. It's the miles. If it takes 100K miles to break even, it doesn't matter whether I hit 100K in 3 years, 4 years, or 8 years.

I had a 2019 Hemi with a 3.92 and got tired of my 12Mpg around town here in the PACNORWEST, lots of hills. hardly ever did I see above 17 MPG on the highway with it. Now, I have a 21 EcoDiesel with 3.92, Banks derringer and pedal monster combo and damn this thing can move. I see 27 MPG on the highway and about 20/21 in town which depends on how happily i push the go pedal.

That sounds exactly like my Hemi. 12 around town. 17 on the highway. Overall average of 14.1 (for me).

Looking at the #s (just 'cause I like #s), the overall savings may only be 2 cents per mile. But, comparing 12mpg to 20, for around town, that's 8 cents per mile savings.

Another happy diesel owner. Bought mine in WA state, drove it home to SOCAL. Averaged almost 28mpg on 1400mi trip, one (and only) fuel stop at exactly 836mi on odo (33gal tank). First diy oil change at 5K. At almost 9Kmi, overall avg mpg at 25.1, combo freeway/city. Double the mpg from my previous 2014 5.7L Tundra. Very quiet, minor tire noise with aggressive treads on Rebel. Love this truck. 33gal tank a must along with the HUD.

I was debating the HUD. I was thinking I would not order it because I don't have one now and have not felt a desire for one. Also, it seems like it could be distracting. Or even annoying if it is displayed on the windshield in a spot that overlays part of my view of the road (versus just over my view of the hood).

What is it about the HUD that makes it a must, to you?

MPG varies just about as much as the cost of a gallon of fuel. The spread on a gallon of diesel around me is $.79. You will realize a lot more MPGs than what you see on fuelly. Fuelly is only as accurate as the data that goes it to it. If there is more representation of city drivers with nothing but stop and go, yep, lower MPGs.

I experience 32 to 36 MPG when freeway driving depending on wind load. I just got back from a 2,500-mile trip from Michigan to South Dakota and back and averaged 29.2 MPG.

32 - 36?!?! That is the first time I've seen anyone report #s that high. Is that calculated by you, or what is reported on the truck's onboard computer? And, is your truck totally stock, or do you have a tune or something to help with the mileage?

 

[66Fuelie]

I bought a ‘21 ram 1500 with 4x4, hemi, and 3.92’s. I traded it 4 months later for an ecodiesel with 3.21’s. I knew I would be at a large deficit and never recoup my money, but I loathe paying for fuel. Ecodiesel clearly wins there.

Since you drive with a lead foot, you’ll probably be around 22ish in the summer and 20ish in the winter. I drive pretty conservatively, but cruise between 75-80 whenever I can.

These screenshots show my averages over the lifetime of the trucks:

Hemi:
View attachment 134093

Ecodiesel (last tank was crap gas from wawa):
View attachment 134094

Yes, maintenance will be a tad higher, but aftermarket parts and filters prices (with the exception of fuel filter) are on par with aftermarket hemi prices.

Oh, and if you put a tuner on this thing, my butt dyno says it pulls as hard as the hemi.

What app is that?
Tom

 

[djevox]

What app is that?
Tom

Fuelly

 

[Kooch80]

What app is that?
Tom

FillUp. I like it. No ads or BS to it

 

[BNJMN]

I never drove a hemI but love my ED. Not typically getting as good as mpg as others, but love the truck every time I get in it. I never did the payoff calcs before owning, I was attracted to the range and towing capability with the Ed/3.92/33gallon combo. From there it was just a matter of what options are important. I second the comments on the multifunction tailgate. Glad I spent the grand on that.