Stellantis Shaken By Surprise UAW Stand-Up Strike At Ram Plant

[HSKR R/T]

What's better for the UAW at this point. Holding out and possibly forcing some of these manufacturers to close plants for goodz losing thousands of jobs, or lowering their demands and keeping their jobs. Do the union leaders really have the best interest of the workers in mind, who have been getting significantly reduced wages during this strike, or their own self interest in not "losing" this battle and looking weak? I lean more towards the second one at this point. The UAW president wants to look strong, but I know if I was a UAW member and was going in debt while the leadership play their little games, Id be walking away to try and find a more secure job. And, in most places, they aren't hard to find

 

[Grape_Ape]

That's definitely a valid point and even at this point if I were a UAW member I'd be getting kind of antsy.

 

[AnthonyRI]

Just gotta say that despite differing opinions on this thread, this is by far the most civil and thoughtful conversation I've seen on the topic. Keep up the good thoughts and dialogue!
I personally really thought this was going to end before it got to the 1500s, disappointing day yesterday for all involved. Hoping for swift resolution from here!

 

[CalvinC]

Agreed. While ideologically outnumbered here, I think @Grape-ape has done an outstanding job respectfully and coherently articulating his viewpoint.

Hopefully everyone else likewise remains civil, and this strike ends soon. I would like a new truck someday, and I’d rather not have some disgruntled, apathetic workforce screw it together.

I think one major misapprehension that many Union workers have is that everyone in America gets COLA adjustments, so they think they should too.

That ain’t happening for nobody, certainly not remotely to the tune of inflation. So the non-union folks may actually be irked, jealous even, that Union folks may actually get commensurate COLA adjustments, with the perception that they have to pay for them as the consumer, which will simply perpetuate the problem.

Everyone assumes corporate greed, correctly in many cases, but no one ever thinks about business strategy. For example maybe automakers knew they’d be losing billions on EV development, and so were trying to squirrel cash away to live through it and protect jobs later.

This is why profit sharing and employee ownership plans are the answer in my mind, not unions. Rising tides raise all ships.

 

[MarPar]

Every time I hear that guy's name, it reminds me of....

 

[Grape_Ape]

Thank you @CalvinC I appreciate that. I know I get testy at times but I don't necessarily mean to. I've said it too much honestly but I'm more into the idea of raising up the entire American population by any means necessary vs just being strictly unions or bust. I want American made and American owned to make a come back. It may not but globalism isn't looking so sweet these days either.

 

[muengineer]

My opinion:

I live in the greater Detroit area, I work in the auto industry in a technical management position.

What I see is a vast divide on the idea of the union and what they stand for.

Where we are now, I'm seeing support for the UAW (although more and more members are questioning why Mr. Fain hasn't presented the contracts to the membership for vote after 6 rounds of negotiation). We acknowledge that they have ensured great job opportunities for normal people, and set working rules that ensure we have personal lives and wages that pay enough for us to live them.

When I go back home (Southern Ohio) no one is supporting the UAW and their efforts. When I talk to people they pretty much universally acknowledge that the people haven't seen pay increases in 3 contracts and their numbers keep dwindling. Then they immediately follow up with several points:

You lost the wages and benefits more than a decade ago, why didn't you negotiate better contracts since then incrementally?

Why do you need to get everything back all at once, shouldn't you try to get what you need now and then go after what you want in the next 2 contracts?

How can you not live on what you're making being paid all that overtime? We work for auto suppliers and make less per hour, work more hours for less overtime pay and live on that money, we haven't had raises either, and we are paying our bills, why can't you?

These are all valid points that I don't have good arguments against. This sentiment is largely held by large portions of the country, particularly in the south where unions are generally mistrusted. That's why I can't believe that 86% of Americans say they side with the UAW on what they are doing.

The reality is that most Americans think a Chevy is an American car, they don't know how to read a VIN number or look at a Monroney label and figure out where the car was built, nor do they care.

We are the only ones who care if our vehicles are US built or UAW made, because those vehicles are supporting our jobs.

They really don't understand where we are at and how we got here, and no amount of strikes or talking points will get them there and Buy American is now just a cheap saying that doesn't mean anything to more and more people every day.

 

[muengineer]

Dump the EV push! Nobody likes it...except Chyna!

I have a PHEV, a Wrangler 4XE.

It charges in 2.5 hours for about $0.75 a day when I have it start during non peak hours.

The charge is enough for 23-29 miles of electric driving daily. Since my commute is less than that to and from work daily, I can drive for a month and use no gas to drive to work and back.

I've had it for 7 months and put 3 tanks of gas in it over 4000 miles of driving.

Whenever I need to drive more than 29 miles, the hybrid system kicks in and I get 34mpg out of a Wrangler on the highway and 37 in the city.

It's a good concept and will bridge the divide between ICE cars and BEV until BEV technology and charging infrastructure is widespread enough that cars and smaller SUV can be electric for commuting.

 

[Darksteel165]

Whenever I need to drive more than 29 miles, the hybrid system kicks in and I get 34mpg out of a Wrangler on the highway and 37 in the city.

It's a good concept and will bridge the divide between ICE cars and BEV until BEV technology and charging infrastructure is widespread enough that cars and smaller SUV can be electric for commuting.

But it will not bridge anything, as Ram is not into doing Hybrids for trucks.
eTorque was their hybrid solution, and it's a god damn joke and an waste of parts.

I think almost everyone here would go for an Hybrid Ram over an EV and that's not what we are going to get, because it actually makes sense.

 

[HSKR R/T]

My opinion:

I live in the greater Detroit area, I work in the auto industry in a technical management position.

What I see is a vast divide on the idea of the union and what they stand for.

Where we are now, I'm seeing support for the UAW (although more and more members are questioning why Mr. Fain hasn't presented the contracts to the membership for vote after 6 rounds of negotiation). We acknowledge that they have ensured great job opportunities for normal people, and set working rules that ensure we have personal lives and wages that pay enough for us to live them.

When I go back home (Southern Ohio) no one is supporting the UAW and their efforts. When I talk to people they pretty much universally acknowledge that the people haven't seen pay increases in 3 contracts and their numbers keep dwindling. Then they immediately follow up with several points:

You lost the wages and benefits more than a decade ago, why didn't you negotiate better contracts since then incrementally?

Why do you need to get everything back all at once, shouldn't you try to get what you need now and then go after what you want in the next 2 contracts?

How can you not live on what you're making being paid all that overtime? We work for auto suppliers and make less per hour, work more hours for less overtime pay and live on that money, we haven't had raises either, and we are paying our bills, why can't you?

These are all valid points that I don't have good arguments against. This sentiment is largely held by large portions of the country, particularly in the south where unions are generally mistrusted. That's why I can't believe that 86% of Americans say they side with the UAW on what they are doing.

When you target the surveys in certain demographics, you can get whatever results you want. Whether that is for or against whatever you are asking questions about.

As for the first parts, I agree that the longer Fain holds out, the less support he will have. And many will lose any positive views towards the UAW.

 

[muengineer]

When you target the surveys in certain demographics, you can get whatever results you want. Whether that is for or against whatever you are asking questions about.

As for the first parts, I agree that the longer Fain holds out, the less support he will have. And many will lose any positive views towards the UAW.

To be clear, I'm not anti union in any way.

I'm simply saying that when I talk to people who work and live in areas where unions aren't the normal way to work, they don't have the same views on the current situation.

Their views are no less valid than mine. I have my reasons for mine, they have their reasons for theirs.

Mine are based on what we do for a living and how well it pays us.

Theirs are based with bad previous dealings when the UAW tried to unionize Honda parts suppliers in Ohio.

They promised them crazy wages for the area and benefits that were totally unrealistic and then failed to get the votes because they couldn't answer the basic question of what would happen when the supplier just chose to close and relocate because they voted in the UAW. Those people never forgot that.

 

[muengineer]

But it will not bridge anything, as Ram is not into doing Hybrids for trucks.
eTorque was their hybrid solution, and it's a god damn joke and an waste of parts.

I think almost everyone here would go for an Hybrid Ram over an EV and that's not what we are going to get, because it actually makes sense.

I wasn't talking about the Ram necessarily but rather cars and small SUV, but you are correct in your assessment regarding the Ram.

I also agree that Etorque leaves a lot to be desired, especially after I just had to have my MGU replaced at less than 10,000 miles for not working to charge the battery after the truck was running for 15 minutes or more.

It took me 2 trips to the dealer to get it fixed as the first trip they didn't believe me it wasn't working and just did a software update.

 

[HSKR R/T]

To be clear, I'm not anti union in any way.

I'm simply saying that when I talk to people who work and live in areas where unions aren't the normal way to work, they don't have the same views on the current situation.

Their views are no less valid than mine. I have my reasons for mine, they have their reasons for theirs.

Mine are based on what we do for a living and how well it pays us.

Theirs are based with bad previous dealings when the UAW tried to unionize Honda parts suppliers in Ohio.

They promised them crazy wages for the area and benefits that were totally unrealistic and then failed to get the votes because they couldn't answer the basic question of what would happen when the supplier just chose to close and relocate because they voted in the UAW. Those people never forgot that.

I wouldn't say I'm anti-union. They have their place. I usually argue the opposing side though, because most of the time it's either a Union guy trying to sell me about how great they are, or as with now, talking about a union on strike with unrealistic demands.

There is a local car guy I know who is in in Local 22, and always trying to talk up the union saying how much better they are than non-union jobs. My current job, I get paid better than a lot of the union guys doing the same level of work. When my company works Davis Bacon jobs, they actually take a hit on my pay because they can't pay me less than my normal pay, but the Davis Bacon wages (based of Union wages usually) are lower. We also both have very similar benefits packages. Of course he says that I wouldn't have any of that if it wasn't for the union.

 

[mynameisante]

UAW employees are just angry because they can't show up to work and get paid to lounge and play cards 40+ hours a week anymore, that's why they're striking. 40 hours of poker at work takes away from their casino time. 32 hours makes more sense for them. I know a loooottt of former and current UAW employees that like to brag about this...

 

[SD Rebel]

Yeah, I can't see how being paid so much more than the competition is going to be good for the long term stability of those jobs, especially heading into a recession.

The idea of 36% pay increase even within 4 years contract doesn't make sense when they are already paid more at their current rate than non-Union plants in the US, i.e. the competition.

Unions had and probably still have their place, but I can't stand the "I'll burn this thing down if I don't get what I want" mentality that seems to always develop from these strikes. Also, everyone should be able to make a good living, but it should make financial sense for everyone for it to work.

I suspect the manufacturers are going to wait this out, starve out the Union since there is a lot of stock out there and move more production to Mexico. Especially with higher prices and lower potential sales, they rather produce less and make more money per unit. This could all be part of their plan and the UAW are playing right into it.

 

[LITTLEREBEL]

The union lost me when they pushed all union workers to vote for this current corrupt administration

 

[Grape_Ape]

Yeah, I can't see how being paid so much more than the competition is going to be good for the long term stability of those jobs, especially heading into a recession.

The idea of 36% pay increase even within 4 years contract doesn't make sense when they are already paid more at their current rate than non-Union plants in the US, i.e. the competition.

Unions had and probably still have their place, but I can't stand the "I'll burn this thing down if I don't get what I want" mentality that seems to always develop from these strikes. Also, everyone should be able to make a good living, but it should make financial sense for everyone for it to work.

I suspect the manufacturers are going to wait this out, starve out the Union since there is a lot of stock out there and move more production to Mexico. Especially with higher prices and lower potential sales, they rather produce less and make more money per unit. This could all be part of their plan and the UAW are playing right into it.

I think those are valid points but from my understanding the avg uaw employee is making $28/hr. It's been reported that number is considered top pay and it takes a long time to get there. A quick Google search shows that Toyota in Alabama near me is paying $24/hr. So yes, after these contract increases take effect there will be a large gap between the two. However, I would have to imagine toyota will raise their pay in turn. Maybe not immediately but they will eventually reach parity again.


@LITTLEREBEL - that's just because in the past several decades Democratic parties have been more favorable to unions. It was the same thing when Hillary ran and Obama before her. Trump does a lot of lip service for the unions but his own track record with how he treats skilled labor is pretty poor. I still voted for him 2nd term. I'd typically vote independent if it actually means anything.

We're seeing a trickle of manufacturing come back to the US. I know here in Georgia Hyundai is dumping TONS of money into new plants. There will always be a curve on pay. It would be cool if through unions or profit sharing or whatever else method you want we get back to good solid jobs for Americans.

 

[Rammit]

The move to EV’s is going to bankrupt the automakers. Maybe the union should try and not support socialist democrats that have been trying to put them out of work for decades. I know quite a few UAW members. They all make great money and also have the brains not to support democrats, but union leadership is another story. Hurting the automakers when the offers are more than fair is going to guarantee a shift to doing even more with less people. There needs to balance and to recognize the auto industry is not in as good a shape as the union president says it is. This ridiculous move to ev’s that is being forced on them is going to cost more than just money

 

[AnthonyRI]

This is why profit sharing and employee ownership plans are the answer in my mind, not unions. Rising tides raise all ships.

I'll go all day on Employee Ownership - my last gig for 11 years was with an ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Plan) company, where the entire company was owned by the employees - anyone who worked more than 800 hours per year earned shares in the company, which was held (and distributed upon departure) in qualified retirement accounts. Beautiful thing - got to collaborate with ESOP companies all over the countries and culture, productivity, succession planning - all sorts of industries. When times were tough, at least we knew we all had it tough, that there wasn't external stockholders still squeezing it. By no means perfect, no company is, but it's a wonderful thing.

I grew up in a union household, worked as a manager in a union facility, worked for ESOP company, privately owned, publicly traded . . . they all have their benefits and flaws. Some times while managing union I was grateful for that system, other times not. Some times managing in non-union I wish we'd had it lol, but many times not.

 

[bigdodge]

Ford just settled.

Autoworkers reach a deal with Ford, a breakthrough toward ending strikes against Detroit automakers

The United Auto Workers union says it has reached a tentative contract agreement with Ford that could be a breakthrough to end the nearly 6-week-old strikes against Detroit automakers.

apnews.com