Spinning wheels and skidding even in AWD...

[vincentw56]

Stock Duelers with 32k..... how? Didn't think that was possible. I replaced mine at 10k, they were awful and wearing quickly.

^What they said, tires are everything, it's literally where the rubber meets the road

Mine are at 36k and still going strong. But I have them rotated and balanced every 6000 miles like you should.

 

[Darksteel165]

Tires are everything.

My 2012 Camaro drove great in the snow and solid ice.... With my snow tires on it.
There's very little weight in the back and it's rwd with a lot more power then the 1500s. Lower center of gravity does help a little but tires are more important for traction on snow for ANY vehicle no matter what and anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.

It's funny OP talks about losing traction on d ry ground, and expects something different on snow\ice.

AWD and 4x4 whatever really only shines if you are completely stuck, it's not going to help much on the way there, not to the point that tires don't matter anyways.

The "auto" 4wd in the RAM 1500 is a simple computer controlled wet clutch in the transfer case.
When in 2wd high all the power is sent to the rear axle.
When you select "auto" 4wd the computer engages the front axle disconnect, and you are driving around in 2wd still
with all the power going to the rear untill the computer senses slip in the rear at which point it will start to engage the wet clutch
in the transfer case that drives the front driveshaft and result in 4wd.

Funny because all the documentation I found states your statement is incorrect.
In a-4wd there is always pressure being applied to the front axle just not balls to the wall. It will give more when it detects slippage, but it's not no power at all. If I recall it was a 30-70 split when engaged

 

[Fatherof3]

As stated by Darksteel165 , tires are the biggest thing in winter . I had a 1989 Mustang GT and with the stock tires it spin just letting your foot off the brake . We put all seasons on it for the winter and it was a lot better but when we put dedicated snow tires on it it felt like a 4x4 lol .

 

[HSKR R/T]

Tires are everything.

My 2012 Camaro drove great in the snow and solid ice.... With my snow tires on it.
There's very little weight in the back and it's rwd with a lot more power then the 1500s. Lower center of gravity does help a little but tires are more important for traction on snow for ANY vehicle no matter what and anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.

It's funny OP talks about losing traction on d ry ground, and expects something different on snow\ice.

AWD and 4x4 whatever really only shines if you are completely stuck, it's not going to help much on the way there, not to the point that tires don't matter anyways.


Funny because all the documentation I found states your statement is incorrect.
In a-4wd there is always pressure being applied to the front axle just not balls to the wall. It will give more when it detects slippage, but it's not no power at all. If I recall it was a 30-70 split when engaged

You keep saying this, but can't provide any evidence. There was a video, from Mopar, posted yesterday that explained the 4-auto operation. In that video, by Mopar, it says no power is sent to front wheels until the computer senses wheel slip.

 

[cochise111]

I have Falken Wildpeak A/TWa tires and I get zero traction in the wet. The "A" must signify the second line of Wildpeaks that come OE. Even when I'm driving 35 mph, and have to accelerate quickly when the ground is damp, the tires spin. The government ratings are Traction B and Temperature B. I have read good things about the Falkens without the "A" designation. I can't wait for them to wear out. As an aside, I have about 17k miles on them and they still appear only slightly worn. I was hoping for a little more wear by now.

 

[Darksteel165]

You keep saying this, but can't provide any evidence. There was a video, from Mopar, posted yesterday that explained the 4-auto operation. In that video, by Mopar, it says no power is sent to front wheels until the computer senses wheel slip.

I provided ton of evidence from the manufacturer, you just don't believe the people that make the parts.

Ill go ahead and quote my post from months ago for you again.

BorgWarner’s New Electro-Mechanical On-Demand Transfer Case Powers 2019 Ram 1500 4x4 Pickup Trucks - BorgWarner

Read and download our latest press releases.

www.borgwarner.com

The video you linked appears to be incorrect, and not posted by the manufacturer\declined to use the video so this video is fiction for whatever reason they did not want to use it.
View attachment 142088

Here is a video from the same place but it appears the manufacture ended up using it.
Note this has an actual Ram in it and not a generic placeholder.
It's showing an 20/80 split between the front and rear.

Here is a press release from Borg Warner for the transfer case, it doesn't get very detailed in operation though but does state "The heart of BorgWarner’s new EMOD transfer case is a motor-driven rotational cam mechanism which provides both robust clutch control and range shift function. The active clutch actuation technology delivers higher torque output, linear clutch response and preemptive clutch locking torque with zero rear wheel spin."

https://cdn.borgwarner.com/docs/default-source/press-release-downloads/borgwarner-electromechanical-on-demand-transfer-case-powers-2019-ram-1500-4x4-pickup-trucks.pdf?sfvrsn=538bb23c_2

I also see more articles that state this

"Transfer cases get upgrades Buyers who equip their 2019 Ram 1500 with a four-wheel drive drivetrain can choose between two electronically controlled transfer cases: the Borg Warner 48-12 for part-time 4WD operation with Hi and Low ranges; and the BorgWarner 48-11 for on-demand 4WD. Both transfer cases engage via a push-button control mounted underneath the rotary gear selector on the instrument panel.
...The on-demand transfer case has 4Auto, 2Hi, 4Hi and 4Lo selections. 4Auto provides full-time 4WD, responding automatically to provide maximum traction in all road conditions. 2Hi, 4Hi and 4Lo function equally to the part-time transfer case.""

 

[HSKR R/T]

I provided ton of evidence from the manufacturer, you just don't believe the people that make the parts.

Ill go ahead and quote my post from months ago for you again.

BorgWarner’s New Electro-Mechanical On-Demand Transfer Case Powers 2019 Ram 1500 4x4 Pickup Trucks - BorgWarner

Read and download our latest press releases.

www.borgwarner.com

Ram says differently

 

[Darksteel165]

Ram says differently

Ram doesn't make the transfer case so I don't care what they say.
The transfer case for our 1500s, at least the folks that have the 5.7 are manufacturer by Borg Warner and NOT by Ram\Stellantis.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I provided ton of evidence from the manufacturer, you just don't believe the people that make the parts.

Ill go ahead and quote my post from months ago for you again.

BorgWarner’s New Electro-Mechanical On-Demand Transfer Case Powers 2019 Ram 1500 4x4 Pickup Trucks - BorgWarner

Read and download our latest press releases.

www.borgwarner.com

Thank you for posting your video again. Guess you didn't actually watch it. Nowhere in the link does it says 80/20 split. It literally says "on demand" transfer of torque to front wheels. Not constant. And can engage the AWD clutch at any speed. Screenshot directly from video YOU are referencing

 

[Darksteel165]

Thank you for posting your video again. Guess you didn't actually watch it. Nowhere in the link does it says 80/20 split. It literally says "on demand" transfer of torque to front wheels. Not constant. And can engage the AWD clutch at any speed. Screenshot directly from video YOU are referencing View attachment 147133

Guy.
Did you even watch the video???
It's literally the first scene.
It's an 80\20 split and increases it as you lose traction.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Guy.
Did you even watch the video???
It's literally the first scene.
It's an 80\20 split and increases it as you lose traction.
View attachment 147137
View attachment 147138
View attachment 147139

You mean the video showing the TRX, and not a regular 1500? The TRX is full time AWD, and uses a different transfer case.

 

[Darksteel165]

Thank you for posting your video again. Guess you didn't actually watch it. Nowhere in the link does it says 80/20 split. It literally says "on demand" transfer of torque to front wheels. Not constant. And can engage the AWD clutch at any speed. Screenshot directly from video YOU are referencing

Do you now understand what on-demand is?
It starts as a 80/20 split and changes when wheels slip, on demand.

I'm going to buy you a subscription to dictionary.com

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Do you know realize that all AWD systems are "on demand". They change the torque depending on the conditions. No AWD or 4-auto are only rwd until it slips.
You think the TRX is rear wheel drive and on-demand allows the front wheels to spin? No it's AWD the same as ours are 4-auto except there is no way to turn it off (without using a tuner or tazer, etc)

 

[devildodge]

Back when there was no question what you got...
But ultimately ended up with only one wheel spinning...until you LOCKED it.

 

[crusher]

Back when there was no question what you got... View attachment 147140
But ultimately ended up with only one wheel spinning...until you LOCKED it.

a nice 79 truck, been i while i didnt see one on the road, there must not be alot left

 

[HSKR R/T]

Do you now understand what on-demand is?
It starts as a 80/20 split and changes when wheels slip, on demand.

I'm going to buy you a subscription to dictionary.com

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Do you know realize that all AWD systems are "on demand". They change the torque depending on the conditions. No AWD or 4-auto are only rwd until it slips.
You think the TRX is rear wheel drive and on-demand allows the front wheels to spin? No it's AWD the same as ours are 4-auto except there is no way to turn it off (without using a tuner or tazer, etc)

Your definition literally supports my argument. On demand means it's available when needed, but not always on. Using the exact examples in the dictionary definition, by your argument if a singer was ready to sing"on demand" they would always be singing, and would only raise their voice to be louder when it was time. As opposed to waiting to sing until needed. Or in the finance examples, using your argument, they would always be making payments, and then increase payments when time. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?

And as I mentioned, the TRX uses a different transfer case and is full time AWD, unless you have a TazerDT to force it into RWD.

 

[CalvinC]

Fellas… fellas… fellas…

Everything is relative.

The 4Auto only applies torque up front when slip is detected, true. But, it’s detecting for slip dozens of times each second.

So in reality, in any slippery stuff, some amount of power is pretty much always routed up front.

Or more.
For instance I had the same tcase on my f150, though surely different software. Could monitor the tcase clutch engagement percentage with fords version of AlphaOBD (FORscan). It seemed to match the dash graphic they provided.

In any case, only time it ever fully decoupled the front axle was at highway speeds of prolonged steady state throttle (~2 mins or so). Even on dry pavement it always sent power up front from a stop on all but the most ginger of starts. Ramped it down with steering angle, almost completely out at full lock.

I imagine it’s not to terribly different programming on the Ram.

 

[Mountain Whiskey]

Back when there was no question what you got... View attachment 147140
But ultimately ended up with only one wheel spinning...until you LOCKED it.

Yea, that's what my last Dodge had. '77 retired M880, camo paint from the grunt with a paintbrush. Real full time. When you had it in low lock it was a beast. In high it was a terror on the road going 0 to 60 in 5 minutes. 8 miles to the gallon!

 

[LouNY]

Tires are everything.

My 2012 Camaro drove great in the snow and solid ice.... With my snow tires on it.
There's very little weight in the back and it's rwd with a lot more power then the 1500s. Lower center of gravity does help a little but tires are more important for traction on snow for ANY vehicle no matter what and anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.

It's funny OP talks about losing traction on d ry ground, and expects something different on snow\ice.

AWD and 4x4 whatever really only shines if you are completely stuck, it's not going to help much on the way there, not to the point that tires don't matter anyways.


Funny because all the documentation I found states your statement is incorrect.
In a-4wd there is always pressure being applied to the front axle just not balls to the wall. It will give more when it detects slippage, but it's not no power at all. If I recall it was a 30-70 split when engaged

I'm pretty sure you are not correct, as I recall from reading and studying these systems rather intensely after getting my first one with the auto mode a 2015 RAM which I was definitely fed up with with it's p poor transfer case, I was extremely leery of the newer model in the 19's. The 15 in auto with the front axle jacked up you could easily turn the front driveshaft. So therefore it was not engaged in the transfer case. I haven't tried with this 19 but I'm fairly certain it is the same way.

 

[Darksteel165]

I'm pretty sure you are not correct, as I recall from reading and studying these systems rather intensely after getting my first one with the auto mode a 2015 RAM which I was definitely fed up with with it's p poor transfer case, I was extremely leery of the newer model in the 19's. The 15 in auto with the front axle jacked up you could easily turn the front driveshaft. So therefore it was not engaged in the transfer case. I haven't tried with this 19 but I'm fairly certain it is the same way.

The 2019 has different transfer case.
I can't comment on what the older generation of trucks used for parts as I never looked it up.
What I posted was only for 5th gen, 2019+ with a 5'7 (3.6 has a different transfer case made by Ram not BW).

 

[VectorZ]

Where do you live?? I live in Alaska and have the exact same set up as you do, but I run a dedicated snow tire since we have snow/ice on the roads for 6 months. Driving in these conditions takes practice and experience. I do wish that the truck had different traction control modes like most more modern trucks have now, snow, mud, sport etc.