Sell me on RAM

[jdmartin]

No, if you need a truck you need a truck. Personally, I need to haul a 6,000 pound trailer and - sorry - a corolla just isn't going to cut it.

If you already need a truck, and you're going to drive 14,000 miles a year, why would you get one that's inefficient? I could have bought a Toyota Tundra that gets 13/18mpg, and on my short day-to-day commute you can bet it would get 13mpg or worse. With eTorque, I get 17/23 - right about what the rating says it should get.

Even with gas at $2 a gallon, that difference day-to-day is over $500 a year. At $3.50/ gallon, that's over $2,100 every year. At current model prices, eTorque is going to pay for itself in just the first year. Over your miLliOn miLeS of driving, that's a whole new vehicle.

It's not like this is the 80's where every truck has some carbureted V8 that gets between 10 and 12 MPG. Hybrids, light hybrids, turbos, and diesels mean you can actually get 30+MPG in a full size truck, and if you somehow don't care about the money in your pocket, or aren't going to drive the truck much, who cares about comparing any metric? Just go get a Raptor or TRX and enjoy the insanity.

OP, I know you mentioned you don't do much towing, but it's also worth noting that diesels usually get the best towing mpg, followed by gas V8's, and then the turbos https://tfltruck.com/2018/06/mpg-challenge-most-efficient-truck-towing-listed-specs/

when your truck is only getting 13-15mpg city, a diesel that can bag 24-30 mpg city really starts looking great. for the gassers, take 30-40% off that if you tow. 10-15% for a diesel, and the diesel won't care even with 1/2 the HP.

normally the increased fuel mileage, powerband and longevity in a diesel made them no brainers. these days with all the complex emissions, proprietary maintenance items and questionable durability make it a tougher pill to swallow.

if I can find an open stretch of road I can drive between 55 and 62 mph I can get 50+mpg with my ecodiesel. it will reliably get 30mpg and 900+ miles on a tank. you can forget those numbers on a fullsize truck even a decade ago. maybe an old mazda b2200 diesel could come close. and it's a tiny thing with 60hp, being generous.

the big thing ram has going for it is the interior quality. especially the premium trims. take a look at a king ranch, or platinum ford or a high country or Denali Chevy/GM. then drive a Longhorn or a Limited and be prepared to be blown away.

Except that the math doesn't work out like that. Before crunching numbers, you have to take into account:

1. Ecodiesel is a $3200 upgrade over standard Hemi;
2. Diesel costs 30 cents/gallon more than unleaded;
3. E-torque is a $200 upgrade over standard Hemi.

Ok, so with that out of the way,
Ecodiesel: 22 city/29 highway;
E-torque: 17/22;
Hemi: 15/21

Let's assume 12k miles per year, 30/70 split, or 3600/8400

Ecodiesel: 163 gallons/289 = 452 gallons @ $2.50/gallon = $1130
E-torque: 211 gallons/382 = 593 gallons @ $2.20/gallon = $1305
Hemi: 240 gallons/400 = 640 gallons @ $2.20/gallon = $1408

So you save $100/year with an E-torque and $300/year with an Ecodiesel. Raw payback (this means excluding all the crap they make you get to get these packages besides, just going engine to engine):

E-torque: 2 years (not bad)
Eco-Diesel: 11 years

So if you're really concerned about MPG and want a Ram, you get a modest payback with the E-torque. You just have to ask yourself if $100/year is worth the added complexity and cost of the system, not to mention the replacement cost - per another forum member the generator & battery cost are almost $3,000. If you have to replace them one time your payback is 30 years.

That's why I said I never really bothered to check my MPG. Once I was settled on Ram it didn't make any difference. A truck will burn up a lot of fuel regardless and efforts to mitigate that (like e-torque and diesel) cost a boatload of money. I'm all for better environmental efforts, and actually engineers developing stuff like this pushes the conventional stuff to do even better, but really at the end of the day your best bang for the buck with MPG is to have a little car that you use when you don't need a truck. Back in 2004/2005 when fuel prices went apeshit, I had a new Titan as did a lot of other guys (it just came out in 04). I could not convince those guys no way, no how that they would be better off just getting a beater to run around in and use the truck when you needed it/wanted it rather than dumping them at fire sale prices and taking a bath on the sale. And showed them that unless you drove a ridiculous amount of miles, even at $4/gallon it didn't make sense for most people to get another car because there wasn't enough driving for the less gas to compensate for the costs of getting another vehicle.

So me, for example, I always had a long commute so I kept an econobox that I could run into the ground that would get me 30+ MPG and saved the truck for weekends and working in my business - but I typically drove 50k miles or more in a year. I drove 4 econoboxes into the ground in 20 years, but these cars cost me peanuts compared with my Titan ($28k new in 2004) and my Ram ($37k in 2019). I was able to make the Titan last 15 years and I fully expect the Ram to do the same.

Anyway, that's my spiel I don't want anyone to take it that I'm against good fuel economy because I'm not, only that it's a really insignificant cost unless you do a ****-ton of driving, in which case it might be better to ask what can help reduce the cost and wear and tear on the truck.

 

[Granite2WD]

Except that the math doesn't work out like that. Before crunching numbers, you have to take into account:

1. Ecodiesel is a $3200 upgrade over standard Hemi;
2. Diesel costs 30 cents/gallon more than unleaded;
3. E-torque is a $200 upgrade over standard Hemi.

Ok, so with that out of the way,
Ecodiesel: 22 city/29 highway;
E-torque: 17/22;
Hemi: 15/21

Let's assume 12k miles per year, 30/70 split, or 3600/8400

Ecodiesel: 163 gallons/289 = 452 gallons @ $2.50/gallon = $1130
E-torque: 211 gallons/382 = 593 gallons @ $2.20/gallon = $1305
Hemi: 240 gallons/400 = 640 gallons @ $2.20/gallon = $1408

So you save $100/year with an E-torque and $300/year with an Ecodiesel. Raw payback (this means excluding all the crap they make you get to get these packages besides, just going engine to engine):

E-torque: 2 years (not bad)
Eco-Diesel: 11 years

So if you're really concerned about MPG and want a Ram, you get a modest payback with the E-torque. You just have to ask yourself if $100/year is worth the added complexity and cost of the system, not to mention the replacement cost - per another forum member the generator & battery cost are almost $3,000. If you have to replace them one time your payback is 30 years.

That's why I said I never really bothered to check my MPG. Once I was settled on Ram it didn't make any difference. A truck will burn up a lot of fuel regardless and efforts to mitigate that (like e-torque and diesel) cost a boatload of money. I'm all for better environmental efforts, and actually engineers developing stuff like this pushes the conventional stuff to do even better, but really at the end of the day your best bang for the buck with MPG is to have a little car that you use when you don't need a truck. Back in 2004/2005 when fuel prices went apeshit, I had a new Titan as did a lot of other guys (it just came out in 04). I could not convince those guys no way, no how that they would be better off just getting a beater to run around in and use the truck when you needed it/wanted it rather than dumping them at fire sale prices and taking a bath on the sale. And showed them that unless you drove a ridiculous amount of miles, even at $4/gallon it didn't make sense for most people to get another car because there wasn't enough driving for the less gas to compensate for the costs of getting another vehicle.

So me, for example, I always had a long commute so I kept an econobox that I could run into the ground that would get me 30+ MPG and saved the truck for weekends and working in my business - but I typically drove 50k miles or more in a year. I drove 4 econoboxes into the ground in 20 years, but these cars cost me peanuts compared with my Titan ($28k new in 2004) and my Ram ($37k in 2019). I was able to make the Titan last 15 years and I fully expect the Ram to do the same.

Anyway, that's my spiel I don't want anyone to take it that I'm against good fuel economy because I'm not, only that it's a really insignificant cost unless you do a ****-ton of driving, in which case it might be better to ask what can help reduce the cost and wear and tear on the truck.

You make some good points here. The extra cost for diesel around me is much more than 30 cents. Combined with the added maintenance costs of an EPA regulated diesel engine and it makes less sense financially. I'd say most modern diesel buyers are doing so because they want the towing advantages, the fun of owning something different, or because they hope the engine is built to last a longer amount of time than a gas engine.

 

[Aseras]

the diesel has higher maintenance and fuel costs. IMHO this is totally negated if you need to use a truck as a truck and not a conveyance. if you tow anything, the diesel is a no brainer. a hemi is going to hunt and scream towing highway, the diesel won't care. hemi may have more hp but as a gass engine it is peak hp and the power band is just meh. power doesnt come until 3500 rpm and peaks at 5500 rpm. a diesel the powerband comes quick peak 480 lb ft of torque is at 1600 rpm and is flat to over 3500rpm. consistent toque means everything in a truck. even the baby ecodiesel. practically the only time you really know you are towing is when you stop and make turns.

plus, you make the value up when you sell the truck as the diesel will hold its value more over the hemi.

 

[silver billet]

the diesel has higher maintenance and fuel costs. IMHO this is totally negated if you need to use a truck as a truck and not a conveyance. if you tow anything, the diesel is a no brainer. a hemi is going to hunt and scream towing highway, the diesel won't care. hemi may have more hp but as a gass engine it is peak hp and the power band is just meh. power doesnt come until 3500 rpm and peaks at 5500 rpm. a diesel the powerband comes quick peak 480 lb ft of torque is at 1600 rpm and is flat to over 3500rpm. consistent toque means everything in a truck. even the baby ecodiesel. practically the only time you really know you are towing is when you stop and make turns.

plus, you make the value up when you sell the truck as the diesel will hold its value more over the hemi.

I've towed several times (5000 pounds) with my Hemi, no hunting, no screaming. The vast majority of the time (lets say 95%?) I'm sitting in 6th gear at about 2200 to 2400 rpms, towing about 63 to 65 mph on the freeway. (And at those RPMs, the hemi has less drone then when I'm running unloaded at that speed around 1700 RPMs.) When it comes to a hill, it downshifts once or twice, generally still sitting below 3000 or 3500 RPMs. No hunting. If I come to a really steep hill then yeah its going to rev up, but still no hunting.

And for the times when I'm not towing? The hemi moves the truck far better than the little ED ever could. It's night and day difference, especially passing on the freeway where the Hemi has gobs of HP and the ED feels weak.

I wouldn't turn down an ED if I was given one, but it's nothing special either unless you do very high mileage.

If you have to do one ED related fix outside of your warranty, you will never get your money back. That's all it takes, one fix out of pocket.

The value isn't there for the vast majority of people. Some people like the low end torque, just because they prefer that, and that's perfectly fine; like buying leather seats or a sunroof or anything else you spend money on that doesn't really get you anything. But the value is still with the Hemi.

 

[brian42]

I had a diesel for 11 years prior to this truck. I don't think I came out ahead (or broke even) over owning the gas version even though I loved every minute of it.

Maintenance costs, repair costs, and time spent under the hood chasing oil leaks got old after a decade. I do miss driving a diesel but I don't miss having a diesel.

That truck was a 2003 Ford F-250 7.3L diesel and was pre-emissions and pre-common rail so I was able to do all the work myself. I have a friend that has one of the newer Ford diesels and he has a separate insurance policy for the fuel system...no thanks.

I can only imagine what all this new tech costs and the labor price to have someone work on it which is why I left the diesel 'club' and live the simpler life of start, drive, park, done.

 

[brian42]

Off-road package rides stiffer, even with squishier tires off road tires (wildpeaks). 10 ply on orp might be downright harsh.

My ride is very smooth and comfortable (ORP, 18" wheels, 6 ply tires).

My dad's truck (2020 Limited) rides a little firmer than mine (ORP, air suspension, 20" wheels, 6 ply tires) but still a very nice ride.

There's a reason that the Limited won best luxury car of the year.

 

[HAL9001]

The other posts have done a great job answering your questions so I'll just add a few more thoughts.

There's no such thing as a perfect truck, they all have issues, just go to any of their forums and you'll learn more than you want to know. RAM stacks up just as good or better than the rest as far as overall reliability and quirks.

Before you make up your mind on the eTorque, watch this video which does a good job of explaining the benefits. Keep in mind that it's now only a $200 option, it used to cost $1450. And, concerning reliability, the eTorque components are covered by the Federal emissions section of the warranty for 8 Years/80,000 miles.

 

[millerbjm]

Except that the math doesn't work out like that. Before crunching numbers, you have to take into account:

1. Ecodiesel is a $3200 upgrade over standard Hemi;
2. Diesel costs 30 cents/gallon more than unleaded;
3. E-torque is a $200 upgrade over standard Hemi.

Ok, so with that out of the way,
Ecodiesel: 22 city/29 highway;
E-torque: 17/22;
Hemi: 15/21

Let's assume 12k miles per year, 30/70 split, or 3600/8400

Ecodiesel: 163 gallons/289 = 452 gallons @ $2.50/gallon = $1130
E-torque: 211 gallons/382 = 593 gallons @ $2.20/gallon = $1305
Hemi: 240 gallons/400 = 640 gallons @ $2.20/gallon = $1408

So you save $100/year with an E-torque and $300/year with an Ecodiesel. Raw payback (this means excluding all the crap they make you get to get these packages besides, just going engine to engine):

E-torque: 2 years (not bad)
Eco-Diesel: 11 years

So if you're really concerned about MPG and want a Ram, you get a modest payback with the E-torque. You just have to ask yourself if $100/year is worth the added complexity and cost of the system, not to mention the replacement cost - per another forum member the generator & battery cost are almost $3,000. If you have to replace them one time your payback is 30 years.

That's why I said I never really bothered to check my MPG. Once I was settled on Ram it didn't make any difference. A truck will burn up a lot of fuel regardless and efforts to mitigate that (like e-torque and diesel) cost a boatload of money. I'm all for better environmental efforts, and actually engineers developing stuff like this pushes the conventional stuff to do even better, but really at the end of the day your best bang for the buck with MPG is to have a little car that you use when you don't need a truck. Back in 2004/2005 when fuel prices went apeshit, I had a new Titan as did a lot of other guys (it just came out in 04). I could not convince those guys no way, no how that they would be better off just getting a beater to run around in and use the truck when you needed it/wanted it rather than dumping them at fire sale prices and taking a bath on the sale. And showed them that unless you drove a ridiculous amount of miles, even at $4/gallon it didn't make sense for most people to get another car because there wasn't enough driving for the less gas to compensate for the costs of getting another vehicle.

So me, for example, I always had a long commute so I kept an econobox that I could run into the ground that would get me 30+ MPG and saved the truck for weekends and working in my business - but I typically drove 50k miles or more in a year. I drove 4 econoboxes into the ground in 20 years, but these cars cost me peanuts compared with my Titan ($28k new in 2004) and my Ram ($37k in 2019). I was able to make the Titan last 15 years and I fully expect the Ram to do the same.

Anyway, that's my spiel I don't want anyone to take it that I'm against good fuel economy because I'm not, only that it's a really insignificant cost unless you do a ****-ton of driving, in which case it might be better to ask what can help reduce the cost and wear and tear on the truck.

In addition to extra cost of diesel fuel there is also the cost of DEF at approx 1 gal/tank (very approximate) Not huge but adds up over time

 

[flyfingers]

Found the thread - super helpful.

Has anyone on here gotten a big horn crew for close to 40 off the lot?

I’m still weighing used vs new. On my current truck I averaged roughly 14k miles a year. Since then I’ve taken a new position and work 100% remote so I have no commute each day which cuts down on my mileage a lot. I see more traveling in our future to counteract that though snd we haven’t traveled in my truck in the past - but rather the wife’s suv.

What I’m driving towards here is even a vehicle with say 30k miles on it could be 2 full years of ownership for me. So I’m think that’s 2 years worth of low cost ownership I would give up going used.

If I could find a deal closer to the 40 mark - I might be willing to bite. I’m not sure if this helps but I’m looking to put a minimum of 25% down. I don’t want my payments hindering my life.

Just curious who bought a new bighorn - where - and what combination of techniques you used to get it. If I need to fly to save, I will. Just as a reminder - I’m not buying today. I’ll wait for a better time of the year. So I’m not sure if dodge has a “best time” or if it just varies from year to year.

New Ram 1500 Bighorn owner here. One week ago I picked up a 2021 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Crew Cab, 4x4, Level 2, 6'4" bed, 33 gal, 3.21's, Trailer Tow group, anti spin diff, Mopar mats. MSRP $52,000. Dealer discount and rebates brought it down to $44,000 then I added the $1,500 Ram pop up cash for and OTD before TTL of $42,500. Just applied for the Allstate rebate of $250 as well. As an FYI the dealer fee was just $39. Was it the deal of the century - nope, but it was exactly what I had been looking for ('cept for the trailer tow group - wasn't really needing that). Was it a fair deal for both parties - yep.

I can only add that I've owned well north of 100 vehicles of all kinds (trucks, cars, motorhomes, trailers, motorcycles, jet skis, etc) and never once purchased new until this truck and although it has only been a week into ownership, it is by far, hands down, my most favorite of anything I've ever owned. I like absolutely everything about it. Smooth, quiet, powerful, good looking, easy egress / ingress, well appointed and on and on.
To add, I've hunted / fished Montana every year for the past 21 yrs and have rented a truck for a week+ each time. We've rented Fords, Chevy's and Rams over those 21 yrs and after renting the 2019 Ram 1500 everyone in my party whole handily agreed that it was the best truck we had ever had for the trip. Believe me when I say that we beat the living snot out of our rentals and the 5th gen Ram excelled in every way over Ford and Chevy. When we returned from that trip in 2019 I told myself that I would someday own one of them.

 

[Dusty1948]

The third generation trucks did *not* have good reliability ratings and do not have a good reputation outside of Dodge circles - most of those were 45RFE, 545RFE, and 68RFE's. Mine was just fine, and I don't think they're a bad transmission, but the fact is that if you go to a Ford forum and ask this same question, you'll hear "Oh, Dodge transmissions are TERRIBLE" ..regardless of how true that actually is.

Point being, these DT transmissions are made by ZF (8HP), and are used in everything from BMW's to Lamborghini's - regardless of how many people say "Dodge transmissions are TERRIBLE" ...it doesn't matter

Whatever Ford (or GM) lovers think about the third generation Rams, any belief that RFE transmissions contributed to problems is pure myth. I’ve included representative copies of Consumers Reports Best and Worst New Cars Reliability Ratings edition, 1 January 2013.

The 45RFE was introduced to the Ram 1500 in 2002 with the 3.7 V-6 and 4.7 V-8. Mid-way through 2003 the 545RFE began use behind the 5.7 Hemi. Note that for Transmission Major problems from 2003 through 2012 there was one “Average” year (the first), and eight consecutive years of “Better” or “Much Better” than average.

Now compare that to the F-150 for the same years. It is remarkable that although the years align differently, the Transmission Major problems had an identical number of “Average,” “Better Than Average,” and “Much Better than Average” ratings.

When it comes to "Transmission Minor" problems, it looks like the Ram 1500 actually did better than the F-150 across the eight years of CR data.

For the much maligned 68RFE which was introduced mid-year 2007 in Ram 2500/3500, there’s a significant improvement in transmission reliability 2008 and on. However, when judged across the full eight years as a model it is obvious that the HD F-series (which used the 5R110 & 6R140) had much less problems than Ram.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 045223 miles.

 

[jdmartin]

You make some good points here. The extra cost for diesel around me is much more than 30 cents. Combined with the added maintenance costs of an EPA regulated diesel engine and it makes less sense financially. I'd say most modern diesel buyers are doing so because they want the towing advantages, the fun of owning something different, or because they hope the engine is built to last a longer amount of time than a gas engine.

Exactly. I used to buy diesels at work (we buy Fords because we get fleet prices) and we ended up finding out two things:
1. The maintenance and repair costs were obscene; we spent almost $6k on repairs on injectors and rails on one truck that was out of warranty;
2. The engines lasted pretty good but everything else fell apart around it where it didn't make any sense to fix any more.

We did OK reselling them - I wouldn't say they pulled a huge premium but maybe a few hundred dollars better as used vehicles - but it never cancelled out the costs, especially when they started developing gas engine/tranny combos that could pull 12k+ pounds. Beyond that we're towing a trackhoe or something similar and using a dump truck anyway.

 

[jdmartin]

the diesel has higher maintenance and fuel costs. IMHO this is totally negated if you need to use a truck as a truck and not a conveyance. if you tow anything, the diesel is a no brainer. a hemi is going to hunt and scream towing highway, the diesel won't care. hemi may have more hp but as a gass engine it is peak hp and the power band is just meh. power doesnt come until 3500 rpm and peaks at 5500 rpm. a diesel the powerband comes quick peak 480 lb ft of torque is at 1600 rpm and is flat to over 3500rpm. consistent toque means everything in a truck. even the baby ecodiesel. practically the only time you really know you are towing is when you stop and make turns.

plus, you make the value up when you sell the truck as the diesel will hold its value more over the hemi.

I think it just depends on what you are towing. If you are always pushing the limit then you might be better off with a diesel. I use my truck for business so it gets used as a truck, but generally when I am towing it's only a lightweight track loader or mini excavator, or maybe a dump trailer with debris, things like that. The Hemi handles that stuff like it's not back there. If I had to constantly tow near 10k lbs then I might opt for a diesel instead, but not everyone who uses a truck as a truck needs that kind of towing capacity.

 

[jdmartin]

Whatever Ford (or GM) lovers think about the third generation Rams, any belief that RFE transmissions contributed to problems is pure myth. I’ve included representative copies of Consumers Reports Best and Worst New Cars Reliability Ratings edition, 1 January 2013.

The 45RFE was introduced to the Ram 1500 in 2002 with the 3.7 V-6 and 4.7 V-8. Mid-way through 2003 the 545RFE began use behind the 5.7 Hemi. Note that for Transmission Major problems from 2003 through 2012 there was one “Average” year (the first), and eight consecutive years of “Better” or “Much Better” than average.

Now compare that to the F-150 for the same years. It is remarkable that although the years align differently, the Transmission Major problems had an identical number of “Average,” “Better Than Average,” and “Much Better than Average” ratings.

When it comes to "Transmission Minor" problems, it looks like the Ram 1500 actually did better than the F-150 across the eight years of CR data.

For the much maligned 68RFE which was introduced mid-year 2007 in Ram 2500/3500, there’s a significant improvement in transmission reliability 2008 and on. However, when judged across the full eight years as a model it is obvious that the HD F-series (which used the 5R110 & 6R140) had much less problems than Ram.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 045223 miles.

The most shocking thing about those writeups is the truck costs then versus now!

 

[Dusty1948]

The most shocking thing about those writeups is the truck costs then versus now!

You have that right. Light-duty pickups are also much more feature rich than they were back then, too. Americans love their gadgets!

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 045223 miles.

 

[rydblue]

Curious to see your source on this. When I was poking through F150 issues, there were cam phaser problems, oil building up in charge pipes, and (on pre '17 refresh EB trucks) typical direct injection issues. With the Hemi, there are a handful of people with issues related to the (new) eTorque system... but most of the issues are related to the first generation or the (no longer produced) Chrysler RFE transmission.

I agree with this post. I have owned every full-size truck on the market, including Toyota and Nissan. Owned a 2016 F150 3.5EB which had numerous warranty issues. Warped rotors, engine noise caused by faulty cam phasers, primitive and noisy 4wd system, failed front hub actuators, etc. This was followed by a 2017 F150 3.5EB with the 10 spd trans. Worst truck I ever owned. Left me stranded twice due to coolant pouring from the engine oil cooler, doors would freeze and not open or close in the winter, transmission shift programming was atrocious, noisy cam phasers. I vowed to never own a Ford ever again. The cab was nice and roomy, but the interior materials were super cheesy and cheap, the ride was 3/4 ton harsh, and it just felt like a work truck compared to the 2020 Ram Bighorn I currently own. Nothing but a great experience overall with this truck, and will likely own another if I don't decide to switch to a Suburban for the family room. Also of note, you can get the ORP with 3.21 gears and 4wd auto. My truck is equipped this way.

 

[Muskiez]

I agree with this post. I have owned every full-size truck on the market, including Toyota and Nissan. Owned a 2016 F150 3.5EB which had numerous warranty issues. Warped rotors, engine noise caused by faulty cam phasers, primitive and noisy 4wd system, failed front hub actuators, etc. This was followed by a 2017 F150 3.5EB with the 10 spd trans. Worst truck I ever owned. Left me stranded twice due to coolant pouring from the engine oil cooler, doors would freeze and not open or close in the winter, transmission shift programming was atrocious, noisy cam phasers. I vowed to never own a Ford ever again. The cab was nice and roomy, but the interior materials were super cheesy and cheap, the ride was 3/4 ton harsh, and it just felt like a work truck compared to the 2020 Ram Bighorn I currently own. Nothing but a great experience overall with this truck, and will likely own another if I don't decide to switch to a Suburban for the family room. Also of note, you can get the ORP with 3.21 gears and 4wd auto. My truck is equipped this way.

The 4 wheel Drive system on Fords the was nail in the coffin for me to finally make the switch from Ford. I had a 2015 xlt that got a new transfer case at 5000 miles. I traded that truck in for a 2016 Lariat. Tge 2016 was in 3 different times for front end issues including new iwe’s, new hub assembly, and some new vacuum lines. The truck still had something wrong with it when I traded it in with 42000 miles. I did love the 2.7 tt motor tho. Really enjoying my Ram

 

[Willwork4truck]

Hello - first time poster.

I’m on the market for a new full size truck. But if background on me and my lifestyle.

I’m a 33 yr old father of 2. I’m 6’4” with the wingspan of an eagle. I currently drive an 08 Sierra crew that’s been a decent truck. I’m about to hit the 200k mark on it. The only major issue it has is rust. You could fit your fists through my fender wells currently. Every GM I’ve owned rusts and I don’t even live in the north. I’m in southern Indiana where we have mild winters. Also the truck eats oil due to the faulty *** AFM on the GMs of that generation.

I’m a big time bowhunter so this truck will see the dirt. But it will spend the vast majority of its time on highway and city miles. I do a lot of cross country hunts out west so MPG is extremely important. But first and foremost reliability is my number one concern. I plan on keep this next truck for as long as my old which was roughly 8 years. I don’t buy vehicles for vanity and to keep up with the Jones’s. I buy it to use and haul my family so this is an investment for me. It’s worth noting I’m still in the research phase and haven’t driven anything as I plan to purchase in the summer.

I occasionally pull a pop up camper and trailer but I’m by no means towing anything big. I can foresee us getting a bigger travel trailer but nothing huge.

So here’s where I’m at currently. I was almost 100% sold on the f150 up until about 2 days ago. I loved the MPG of the 2.7, the aluminum everything so rust isn’t a concern, and the general track record and commonality of the truck. I felt it was probably my best bet for a truck that would last.

I’ve admittedly hated the rams of the past. I never liked their styling and the interiors were cheap and quite frankly I’ve heard they were the worst truck as far as reliability. BUT then 2019 came and I’d be lying if I didn’t say I loved the styling but it was still just a RAM. So anyways I went down a rabbit hole of reviews and YouTube videos of the 2019 or newer rams and I’m sold in the truck from a style, fit, and pricing. Really seems like you get more bang for your buck on the RAM.

This would be my ideal truck as of now:

Ram 1500
5.7 L
Crew cab
4WD
Big horn package
LED lights (makes the truck look so much better)
Sport appearance
20 in wheels

SO with that long winded intro out of the way - here are my questions-

-what is the real world mileage for you guys? I plan to put on BFG ATs or a similar 10 ply tire but won’t be lifting

-how reliable are these trucks? Are there any common issues? Anything I should lookout for?

-i was going to forgo etorq- good or bad idea?

-is air suspension worth it?

-would you buy a ram over an f150 if you planned to use it as a family vehicle and plan to drive the wheels off of it?

I think you would be fine with an XLT 2.7 Ford or (a BH will save you money) the equivalent trim BH RAM without etorque. Try to find one with the 33 gallon tank (good luck) and of course 4x. You’ll have your best payload if you stay below the Laramie and while the hemi won’t give you great mpg’s, if you get the 3.21 gears you’ll be happy enough.
No air suspension, not needed for you.

There’s nothing wrong with the f150 2.7, I had a gen 1 version back in 2015-2016 and they have since improved it and added power. Get their 36 gallon tank. The alum bed is very helpful on rust.

Just plan on spending more $ than the RAM.

 

[Willwork4truck]

I would get the manually locking diff. There are 3 options here, open diff, manually locking diff, and an "anti spin" diff which locks up automatically when needed. For most people the consensus seems to be to get the auto locking, but if you're going to offroad a lot then the manual locking is a better option. I believe when you get the manual locker though, you lose out on "4 auto" which is a really really nice feature for winter driving.

I'm not loyal to Ram, I go where the value is, and when I bought my truck it was significantly cheaper and quality (to my mind) is equivalent among all big trucks, with Toyota the exception; but those trucks are so old it's like buying a brand new 2008 model. So you pick your poison, the big 3 all have their own type of problems at this point.

I've gotten 24 mpg on the highway, but for mainly rural winter usage (remote start idling etc) I see about 18 mpg. The GM 5.3 will be better on gas, as will the 2.7 turbo. If you're not pulling much, you could consider the 2.7 but then I believe you can't get a true 4x4 low speed transfer case with the 2.7.

GM is playing stupid games with their drivetrains, and I hate those games and won't play it. I couldn't get what I wanted at the time (6.2 with 10 speed) in any trim approaching reasonable costs so I told them to take a hike and went with Ram instead. No regrets so far.

We have leaking rear window issues with the Ram as well, though judging by the huge page on the GM forum it's worse there.

We have the hated (by some) MDS issue (4 cylinder mode), but on Ram's you get to turn it off whereas on GM you're stuck with the DFM system.

Take one for a drive, you'll probably fall in love like I did.

Edit: for your usage, I would go for the 3.21 rear end as that gets you the highest MPG on the highway and you don't intent to tow heavy. 3.21's are by far the most common, but dealers do stock 3.92's so just be careful there.

X2

 

[traveller09]

Except that the math doesn't work out like that. Before crunching numbers, you have to take into account:

1. Ecodiesel is a $3200 upgrade over standard Hemi;
2. Diesel costs 30 cents/gallon more than unleaded;
3. E-torque is a $200 upgrade over standard Hemi.

Ok, so with that out of the way,
Ecodiesel: 22 city/29 highway;
E-torque: 17/22;
Hemi: 15/21

Let's assume 12k miles per year, 30/70 split, or 3600/8400

Ecodiesel: 163 gallons/289 = 452 gallons @ $2.50/gallon = $1130
E-torque: 211 gallons/382 = 593 gallons @ $2.20/gallon = $1305
Hemi: 240 gallons/400 = 640 gallons @ $2.20/gallon = $1408

So you save $100/year with an E-torque and $300/year with an Ecodiesel. Raw payback (this means excluding all the crap they make you get to get these packages besides, just going engine to engine):

E-torque: 2 years (not bad)
Eco-Diesel: 11 years

So if you're really concerned about MPG and want a Ram, you get a modest payback with the E-torque. You just have to ask yourself if $100/year is worth the added complexity and cost of the system, not to mention the replacement cost - per another forum member the generator & battery cost are almost $3,000. If you have to replace them one time your payback is 30 years.

That's why I said I never really bothered to check my MPG. Once I was settled on Ram it didn't make any difference. A truck will burn up a lot of fuel regardless and efforts to mitigate that (like e-torque and diesel) cost a boatload of money. I'm all for better environmental efforts, and actually engineers developing stuff like this pushes the conventional stuff to do even better, but really at the end of the day your best bang for the buck with MPG is to have a little car that you use when you don't need a truck. Back in 2004/2005 when fuel prices went apeshit, I had a new Titan as did a lot of other guys (it just came out in 04). I could not convince those guys no way, no how that they would be better off just getting a beater to run around in and use the truck when you needed it/wanted it rather than dumping them at fire sale prices and taking a bath on the sale. And showed them that unless you drove a ridiculous amount of miles, even at $4/gallon it didn't make sense for most people to get another car because there wasn't enough driving for the less gas to compensate for the costs of getting another vehicle.

So me, for example, I always had a long commute so I kept an econobox that I could run into the ground that would get me 30+ MPG and saved the truck for weekends and working in my business - but I typically drove 50k miles or more in a year. I drove 4 econoboxes into the ground in 20 years, but these cars cost me peanuts compared with my Titan ($28k new in 2004) and my Ram ($37k in 2019). I was able to make the Titan last 15 years and I fully expect the Ram to do the same.

Anyway, that's my spiel I don't want anyone to take it that I'm against good fuel economy because I'm not, only that it's a really insignificant cost unless you do a ****-ton of driving, in which case it might be better to ask what can help reduce the cost and wear and tear on the truck.

I am not say the math ever really works out going diesel, but I just checked the other day and near me diesel was .20 cents less that unleaded. My current vehcile takes premium so for me if I went with a diesel, at todays prices, it is a .50 cent a gallon swing for me.

 

[TYUS]

I see alot of folks on the forum saying we shouldn't discuss mpg's on a truck forum because if you car about mpg's you shouldn't buy a truck. I get where you're coming from but think it is crazy to say just because hese trucks don't get 50mpg we can't concern ourselves with it. In particular for folks who drive a lot of miles even 2-3 mps difference can add up to significant $$ over time of ownership. Separate from $$ if all the pick-ups in North America got even 1-2mpgs better the energy savings and greenhouse gas reduction would be significant. Peersonally I looked into a wide range of factors when deciding on my truck but mpg balanced with capabilities was important to me. O.K. end of off-topic rant!

I LIVE IN SOUTH WEST FLORIDA AND HAVE A 2020 RAM LARAMIE 4X4 WITH A HEMI. A TRIP TO BIRMINGHAM, TWO OCCUPANTS W/ LUGGAGE, RECORDED 24 MPG FOR ME. THE SAME ON THE RETURN.